GUILTY UK - Ashley Dale, 28 fatally shot at home, Liverpool - 21 Aug 2022

[Legally Bland]

11:42JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry 'remained on good terms with Lee's mum'​

Mr Reiz refers to the “Birds” WhatsApp group of which Ashley Dale was a part.
He asks Barry if he knows any of the other women in the group
SR: “Lydia?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Lois?”
NB: “Yes. she’s an ex girlfriend of mine.”
SR: “When were you in a relationship with her?”
NB: “It was years ago, around 2018.”
SR: “How long did you see her for?”
NB: “I was only with her for about six months?”
SR: “When you were dating, did you have contact with Lee Harrison and Ashley Dale?
NB: “Yes I did, yeah. We’d go out for a meal and probably go out to town after.”
SR: “Did you stay in contact with Lois?”
NB: “No, no.”
SR: “What was the nature of the breakup?”
NB: “It weren’t even a bad one, she just wanted to spend more time with her. I was up the wall at the time, I didn’t have time to spend with her.”
SR: “Elle.”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Tia, Georgia, Lizzie?”
NB: “No.”
Barry is asked about other contacts of Ashley.
He says Sophie “used to be a friend” and Sharon is “Lee’s mum”.
SR: “What was your relationship with her?”
NB: “Sound. I’d always say how are you? Sometimes I’d get a cup of tea with her.”
SR: “Did you ever discuss the issue you had with Lee Harrison?”
NB: “No, no.”
SR: “Did you ever tell them your side?”
NB: “No, no.”
SR: “Did you ever express your feelings about Lee Harrison to any of these people?”
NB: “No, no.”
SR: “Liv McDowell, how well did you know her?”
NB: “Very well.”
SR: “Did you consider her to be a friend?”
NB: “I did, yes.”
SR: “Did you discuss your fallout with Lee Harrison with Liv McDowell?”
NB: “No, I've never spoke about that to any girl. No.”
SR: “Did you remember ever speaking to her about Lee Harrison?”
NB: “No.”
Justice Goose calls for a break and asks the jury to return at 12pm.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

12:09KEY EVENT

Barry says 'Lee Harrison robbed money and drugs linked to James Witham'​

Mr Reiz asks for the images to be displayed on the screen. Some of them show Lee Harrison, Ashley Dale and Barry together. One shows Ashley, Lee Harrison and James Witham.
SR: “Mr Barry, the image towards the top right of this page shows Lee Harrison, Ashley Dale and James Witham. did you know they knew each other?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah.”
SR: “Did you ever spend time in the company of Lee Harrison, Ashley Dale and James Witham?”
NB: “No I might have spent time with Lee Harrison and James Witham but not Ashley Dale as well.”
Barry says “they used to be friends.”
SR: “Prior to 2022, were you aware of any reason they [Witham and Harrison] wouldn’t be friends?”
NB: “I was yeah. James had told me Lee had robbed money and drugs from a house.”
SR: “When did Mr Witham tell you that?”
NB: “This must have been, I'd heard about it. I didn’t see James for about a year and a half, two years. That was in the period it happened. When I came in contact with him that’s when he told me about it. That must have been about January 2022.”
SR: “When did he say this had happened?”
NB: “It was a couple of your before, I think it was around the lockdown period.”
SR: “In January 2022, Was James Witham friends with Lee Harrison?
NB: “No.”
SR: “Did you have any views about what he told you?”
NB: “I was just saying it’s wrong, it shouldn't have happened.”
SR: “Moving into 2022, we’ve seen a number of references to the flat at 267 Pilch Lane. Whose flat was it?”
NB: “It was Michael Kershaw’s, but I was renting it off him.”
SR: “When did you start renting it?”
NB: “I’d say about six months before.”
SR: “In the early part of 2022?”
NB: “Around then yeah.”
SR: “Why did you rent it off him?”
NB: “To grow cannabis in.”

12:13JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Cannabis grow​

Mr Reiz asks for pictures showing the inside of the flat to be displayed.
SR: “Is that a bedroom at 267 Pilch Lane?”
Barry says: “With the tent in? Yes it is yeah.”
SR: “These images were taken on August 29. We can see two cannabis plants inside the tent. Was that the extent of the cultivation?”
NB: “No no, I just cut a cannabis farm down in the weeks previously. I was using those two plants there to get more cuttings. You can make more plants off them plants.”
He says of the other plants “I cut them down and sold the weed.”
SR: “How many plants were there in say early August last year?”
NB: “30 to 40.”
SR: “That cultivation, was anyone else involved in that enterprise?”
NB: “No that was just me.”
SR: “Did you use the flat for any other purpose?”
NB: “No just for the cannabis. Yeah sorry I did, sometimes id go round there and sit in there.”
SR: “Anyone else?”
NB: “Yeah a few people would come round.”
SR: “People the jury have heard about?”
NB: “Yes. just all me close friends and some other people.”
SR: “Why would you co-defendants, apart from Mr Radford, why would they go to that flat?”
NB: “Just to socialise really.”
SR: “Where in the flat would you socialise?”
NB: “In the living room.”
SR: “How often would you have company?”
NB: “Quite often.”
SR: “Were you living there?”
NB: “On and off, yeah.”

12:23KEY EVENT

'I'll stab them up'​

Mr Reiz says: “Moving forward to Glastonbury. Did you go to Glastonbury that year?”
Barry says: “I did yes.”
SR: “When did you make the arrangements to go?”
NB: “Probably a couple of weeks before.”
SR: “Who did you go with?”
NB: “I went with James and two other friends.”
SR: “James Witham.”
NB: “Yes.”
SR: “Two other friends, are they connected to this case?”
NB: “No no.”
SR: “There are others who went. You heard Mr Zeisz’s evidence, he was at Glastonbury. Did you see him there?”
NB: “No I didn’t see him there, no.”
SR: “Before the festival, did you know he was going?”
NB: “I think I was aware he was going, I didn’t see him there. There’s hundreds of thousands of people in there.”
SR: “Did you try and find him while you were there?”
NB: “I think I did. I didn't see him.”
SR: “Did you know his girlfriend Liv McDowell was going?”
NB: “Yeah. I didn’t see her either.”
SR: “What about Ian Fitzgibbon?”
NB: “I was aware Ian was going yeah.”
SR: “Where did you stay?”
NB: “I stayed in erm, the first night I stayed in a tent inside the festival. It’s a nightmare to get showers in there. The night after I stayed somewhere called the Pig and Whistle I think it was called, a hotel about five minutes away from the festival.”
SR: “While you were at the festival what did you do?”
NB: “Just went and listened to music and had a drink.”
SR: “Ian Fitzgibbon. you knew he was going, did you see him while you were there?”
NB: “I can’t recall seeing him. I recall seeing a group of people he was with. I’d had a drink, I can’t remember.”
SR: “You’ll recall the voice notes from Ashley Dale. She reports to friends of hers that something had been said to her. You said to Ian Fotzgibbon, ‘where’s Saz i’m going to stab him up’. Did you say that?”
NB: “No I didn’t say them words.”
SR: “Did you say anything like that?”
NB: “I did yes. To a group of people, I can’t remember them all. One was Connor and Jack, they’re from by where I live. They said there’s loads of them lads down there from Huyton. I was drunk and I shouldn’t have said it. They said be careful, there’s loads of kids from Huyton been arguing with people. I said ‘I don’t give a f*** I will stab them up’.
Justice Goose asks Barry to repeat his answer slowly
NB: “I’d seen a group of people from by where i live. They said there’s loads of them down there, Lee and his friends. I said I don't care about them, I’ll stab them up. which I shouldn’t have really said.”
SR: “You said you saw some people and they said what?”
NB: “Lee and a few other people are down there, the people who robbed drugs off me years ago.”
SR: “How did you know they were the people who robbed me?”
NB: “That’s what people said to me. They just said there’s loads of them down there from Huyton.”
SR: “Did these people from Huyton have a group name?”
NB: “They associate as the Hillsiders yeah.
SR: “Is that what you were told there were Hillsiders over there?”
NB: “Yeah.”
SR: “What was your rel like with Hillsiders at that point?”
NB: “I hadn’t seen or spoke to them for years, I just generally didn’t like them.”
SR: “Was Lee Harrison’s name used by the person who told you this?”
NB: “Yeah>”
SR: “How was he referred to?”
NB: “Saz.”
SR: “Is that a name you knew him by?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah.”
SR: “When you spoke to Lee Harrison, what would you call him?”
NB: “Saz.”
SR: “You were told Lee Harrison and Hillsiders were there?”
NB: “Yes.”
SR: “What else were you told?”
NB: “Just they was saying i’ve seen them round the corner there.”
SR: “Do you remember who said this to you?”
NB: “A kid called Jack, his name is.”
SR: “Was Ian Fitzgibbon there at the time this was said?”
NB: “Yeah, he might have been yeah. I know he was around then. I can’t recall whether he was there or not.”
SR: “Because you were told there were Hillsiders there, what did you say?”
NB: “My response was, can I swear? I said f***them, I’m not assed about them. I’ll stab them up. I’m here to have a good time. It’s wrong and I shouldn’t have said it, but I did say it.”
SR: “Why did you say that?”
NB: “I was just drunk. I shouldn't have said it really. If I was sober I wouldn't have said that.”
SR: “Did you mean it?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Did you mention Saz?”
NB: “No, it was just they’re down there. I said I'll stab them up. It weren't a specific threat to him.”
SR: “Were you in possession of a knife?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “At any point in Glastonbury were you in possession of a knife?”
NB: “No, no.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

12:33JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry: 'I never had a knife in Glastonbury'​

Mr Reiz refers to bodyworn video footage from June 25 during Glastonbury.
SR: “We can see it’s inside a room within the Pig and Whistle public house. The comment, was that made before or after this?”
Barry says: “That was made the day before this.”
SR: “There’s a bag next to you on the bed. Whose was that?”
NB: “That was James’.”
SR: “How many of you were there in that room?”
NB: “There was only two of us in that room, me and James.”
SR: “That was James Witham’s bag. What was inside it?”
NB: “Just clothes.”
SR: “Was there anything that belonged to you?”
NB: “My passport was inside there yeah. It just got left there. In case I lost it.”
SR: “Did you have a bag you took with you to Glastonbury?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah.”
SR: “Why wasn’t your passport in your bag?”
NB: “I don’t know, I just left it in that bag.”
Further footages is played.
SR: “The bag you’re holding, whose is that?”
NB: “That’s James’. It had some of my belongings in it. I had a waterproof pair of pants and a waterproof jacket in it.”
Mr Reiz says he was stopped by police en route to the festival site. A Passport and knife were found in the bag.
SR: “Was that your knife?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Do you know whose knife it was?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Had you ever seen that knife?”
NB: “No I’d never seen that knife, no.”
SR: “The bag was Mr Witham’s. The bag looks very similar to a bag you had with you at Formby Hall when you were arrested on August 24. Was it the same bag?”
NB: “I believe so yeah.”
SR: “Why did you have that bag?”
NB: “It got left at 267 Pilch Lane, I can’t remember the reason. I can’t remember if the weed got put in it, but the bag got left at 267 Pilch Lane. I remember putting possessions I had at 267 Pilch Lane in the bag and taking it with me.”
SR: “Did you ever become aware Sean Zeisz became involved in a violent incident at Glastonbury?”
NB: “I didn’t become aware in Glastonbury. I wasn’t present. They took me ticket off me. I went home on the Saturday morning.”
SR: “Do you remember when you were told about the incident involving Mr Zeisz?”
NB: “I think it was a couple of days later when I seen him. I spoke to him after it and he explained what had happened.”
SR: “What did he say to you had happened?”
NB: “He said he was getting a drink at a bar and someone’s come behind him and punched him in the nose.”
SR: “Did he tell you who had done that?”
NB: “Yes. a person called Wally.”
SR: “Did you know who that was?”
NB: “I don’t know him, no.”
SR: “Did he offer any explanation?”
NB: “Something to do with someone owed someone money, along them lines.”
SR: “Did that inc have anything to do with you?”
NB: “No definitely no.”
SR: “Do you know who Jordan Thompson is?”
NB: “Yes I do yeah.”
SR: “Known as Dusty.”
NB: “I do yeah.”
SR: “How do you know him?”
NB: “Known him for quite a while, I haven’t seen him for years. The last time I seen him I was about 15, 16.”
SR: “Was he a friend of yours?”
NB: “I’d say hello to him if I seen him in the street. I wouldn’t say he was a friend no.”
SR: “Did you have any issue with him?”
NB: “No I didn’t no.”
SR: “Was he a member of the Hillsiders?”
NB: “Yes he was yeah.”
SR: “How did you feel about that?”
NB: “Nothing really, I didn’t feel anything about him.”
SR: “Did Sean Zeisz mention Dusty in relation to Glastonbury?”
NB: “No he never said to me Dusty hit him, never.”
SR: “It’s been said by the prosecution the incident has reignited a feud you had with Lee Harrison, is that true?”
NB: “No, it’s not true. No.”
SR: “From what you were told by Mr Zeisz, were you aware of any involvement Lee Harrison had with that incident?”
NB: “Everything Sean has told me never involved anyone from Hillside, never involved Lee.”
SR: “How did you feel about Sean getting hit in the face?”
NB: “I wouldn't want to see any of my friends getting hit in the face but it’s one of them. It’s a petty argument.”

12:37JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Audi impounded during Glastonbury​

Mr Reiz asks about an Audi car Barry was stopped in.
SR: “Did you travel to Glastonbury in that vehicle?”
NB: “Yes I did.”
SR: “Whose vehicle was it?”
NB: “James’.”
SR: “Who drove it to Glastonbury?”
NB: “James.”
SR: “Who drove it back?”
NB: “It got impounded when we were there.”
SR: “How did you get back from Glastonbury?”
NB: “I’ve went to a Tesco in Shepton Mallet. I seen a friend there, he offered me a lift home from someone who was going that day.”
SR: “Did you drive in August last year?”
NB: “I’ve never drove, no.”
SR: “Did you have any interest in that car?”
NB: “I was trying to sell the car, that was the only interest i had in it”
Mr Reiz says on July 7, Paul Michael Jordan attended a police station in Somerset and arranged for impound to be paid.
SR: “It transpired later that was done fraudulently. After you returned from Glastonbury, did you know what had happened to this Audi?”
NB: “I was aware it had been impounded for no insurance.”
SR: “Was it recovered from the impound?”
NB: “It was yeah. Someone went up who was fully comp to drive any car.”
SR: “Were you involved in the arrangement?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Do you know Paul Jordan?”
NB: “I do yes. Just a friend of a friend.”
SR: “Do you know how Paul Jordan ended up going to retrieve this motor vehicle?”
NB: “James had sorted it for him to go up and get the vehicle.”
SR: “Were you aware at the time?”
NB: “I can’t recall but yeah I would have been.”
SR: “Did you see that vehicle again?”
NB: “I did yes. When Paul Jordan had got back from the impound down south.”
SR: “In what circumstances?”
NB: “I’d probably been in it, got a lift in it or been driving around in it.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

12:44JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Instagram car raffle​

Mr Reiz says a picture of Barry by the side of a pool was sent to Zeisz on July 16.
Barry says: “I was in Norwich, I was in. I went to see a friend.”
Zeisz responds with picture of him and Peers also by a pool.
NB: “They were on holiday.”
SR: “By that time, do you know whether Mr Zeisz was still in a relationship with Olivia McDowell?”
NB: “I think they’d broke up, shortly after Glastonbury.”
SR: “Did he explain to you why?”
NB: “Sean and Liv, they always have arguments but get back together next week. It was just one of them type of things, I thought.”
Mr Reiz refers to July 18.
SR; “You sent Mr Zeisz a message which says ‘get dough, raffling it or something’. What did you mean?”
NB: “There’s a lot of Instagram pages on social media. Something to do with the lottery. You pick a number out of 14 numbers. You’ll win the car. Say everyone bought a ticket for a grand each, you’d get 14 grand back for the car. This was about the car. The Audi S3.”
SR: “Why were you messaging Sean Zeisz about the Audi?”
NB: “I was trying to make a profit on it.”
SR: “Why were you getting involved?”
NB: “To make a profit?”
SR: “It wasn’t your vehicle.”
NB: “It just come up in conversation he was gonna sell his car. He said I could have it for £11,000. I was just gonna sell it on to someone. I was gonna make at least a grand on the car.”
SR: “Was Mr Witham aware of how you were going to sell this car?”
NB: “Yeah he was yeah.”
Mr Reiz reads: “Or just try and spin, you can have it for 12k.”
NB: “I meant he could buy it for £12,000 or could he sell it on for me for £12,000.”
SR: “You send him an image of it?”
NB: “Just so he could send it on to other people to see if anyone was interested.”
Mr Reiz reads: “Just had new race clutch, four brand new tyres, all service history.”
NB: “It had had a new clutch and new tyres.”
Mr Reiz reads: “Get on Jerry Mc, see if he will raffle Nika a number.”
NB: “That’s me friend called Josh. Nika means a grand. He has a raffle page on Instagram.
SR: “You say ‘pass me 12, tell him earn a nika an u earn a nika. Mr Zeisz responds ‘yeah I’ll ask him now he’s a mushroom though. Does it all run smooth and nice?’ You say ‘yeah it’s a beast, warm though lad but don’t tell anyone that’.” He asks what Barry meant.
Barry says: “The police have had their hands on the car. When it got impounded in Glastonbury.”
SR: “You say I’ll have two numbers if he raffles it.”
NB: “That means I would have had two numbers out of the 14 numbers.”
SR: “Did Mr Zeisz do anything to sell the vehicle?”
NB: “He said he got on a few people and people were trying to swap him. I just wanted the cash out of it to be honest.”
SR: “Was the vehicle sold through Mr Zeisz?”
NB: “No it wasn’t, no.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

12:55JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry had 'no intentions of smashing windows for Zeisz'​

Mr Reiz says: “On July 20, two days later, Mr Zeisz messages you. ‘Yo bro. Dusty been getting me bird lad how sick is that. You said Sean Zeisz and lm had broken up after Glastonbury This message about Dusty, had you hear anything about that before?”
Barry says: “No I hadn’t no.”
SR: “You respond ‘You’re lying to me’.
NB: “I didn’t believe it. I didn’t think she’d do that to him.”
SR: “He goes on to say ‘rat isn’t she’. How did you feel about the fact Liv McDowell may be seeing Dusty?”
NB: “To be honest, I didn’t believe it.”
SR: “The following day, July 21, is the day Rikki Warnick committed suicide. Did you know Rikki Warnick?”
NB: “Yes I did, well.”
SR: “When did you first meet him?”
NB: “Probably around 2016.”
SR: “How often did you see each other?”
NB: “Not very often. I’d always call him a close friend.”
SR: “July 22, at 2.24am, Mr Zeisz attempts to phone you.”
NB: “I must have been asleep.”
SR: “He sends you a message ‘lad Rikki has killed himself’. You don't respond until 20.51?”
NB: “I must have only just woke up and seen the messages from the night before. That’s the first I heard of it. I was devastated.”
SR: “He goes on to say ‘rikki dead. Do me a favour bro. My bird car on Dusty path. Go smash the screen now’. Do you remember receiving this messages?”
NB: “I think so yeah.”
SR: “Is that something you were prepared to do?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “What were you thinking?”
NB: “I was just thinking he might have been up all night pissed having an argument with his bird, something along them lines.”
SR: “He says ‘please bro smash her car up’. You say ‘yeah man’.”
NB: “That was off the question if I’m by ours. I’m answering the question before.”
SR: “He goes on to say ASAP, you say ‘I’m by ours’.”
NB: “I Just mean in Liverpool in general, I think I meant.”
SR: “He says ‘please bro please right now, brick her windows’.”: “You say I can’t believe this lad.”
NB: : “I was referring to Rikki.”
SR: “Mr Zeisz says lad her car on Dusty’s path. You say Rikki. What was your focus on?”
NB: “My friend who had died.”
SR: “Mr Zeisz says Dusty been bullying Rik lad.”
NB: “Before this, I’d never heard of it.”
SR: “When Sean said that, what did you think?”
NB: “Just erm, I didn’t know what to think. I didn’t know whether it was true or whatever. I didn’t know.”
SR: “Mr Zeisz carries on; ‘he threw himself under Huyton train station. Can’t even talk’. Then ‘found out me bird been sleeping in dusty’s’. ‘What going on here lad?’. ‘Jamie stabbed all the tyres before for me. I want it smashing up bro please’. What was going through your mind?”
NB: “I didn’t take it serious. I had no intention of going to smash any girl’s windows. They could be back together the next week. I’d be the world’s worst next week. I don’t get involved in other people’s relationships.”
SR: “You said lad ‘I can’t believe this Rikki lad’. And ‘yeah I’ll try to grab someone now. Davo or someone’.
NB: “I was just going along with Sean. I knew he would have been angry. I never had no intention of going to smash any girl’s windows.”
SR: “He sends you a voice note. That was a voice note about removing clothing and property from the flat.”
NB: “He just wanted all his belongings out the flat, he’d just split up with his girlfriend. He was asking me to go out and clear the flat.”
SR: “Did you do that?”
NB: “No I never, no.”
Another voice note “Talking about Rikki”, then another “agreeing to his request”.
NB: “I was just keeping him happy, just going along with him basically.”
SR: “Did you have contact with Liv during this period?”
NB: “No no.”
SR: “Did you speak to her at all after Glastonbury?”
NB: “No, I haven’t seen her no.”
SR: “You didn’t see her at Glastonbury?”
NB: “I didn’t see her at Glastonbury no.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Reporting seems to have stopped from the Echo but I didn’t see a mention of lunch yet. Maybe a technical issue came up.

 

[bobbymkii]

Reporting seems to have stopped from the Echo but I didn’t see a mention of lunch yet. Maybe a technical issue came up.

TLP says adjourned at 13:02. Due to resume at 14:00

	Liverpool Crown Court​	51​	T20237015 T20237016 T20237022 T20237076​	Ian Fitzgibbon James William Witham Joseph Michael Thomas Peers Kallum Radford Niall Andrew Barry Sean Zeisz​
Details: - No Information To Display - Trial (Part Heard) - Defendant Sworn - 10:38 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 12:00 - 11:36 Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 21 Continues - 12:04 Trial (Part Heard) - Witness Number 23 Continues - 12:04 Trial (Part Heard) - Case adjourned until 14:00 - 13:02

 

[Legally Bland]

13:42JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry 'threatened to punch Lee Harrison's head in'​

Mr Reiz moves on to July 26.
Mr Reiz says: “We can see on this day, your phone is cell siting in the Liverpool area. We can see Mr Witham’s phone is in Rhyl, as is the Kyle Line. You are in different places. At 16.46 Mr Witham made three calls to Lee Harrison. A few minutes later, you called James Witham for five minutes and 25 seconds.”
Barry: “That was just general chat, I was ringing to see what he was doing. He said he’d just been arguing with Lee. He said he was arguing with him over drugs and money what have been robbed and another bit of money. Lee said it was to do with me.”
SR: “Did you know which drugs he was referring to?”
NB: “Drugs what got robbed over the lockdown period. There was something else what got said. He said he mentioned my name, drugs going to someone and someone collecting the money.”
Barry says Lee Harrison had mentioned his name with regards to “drugs that had gone missing”
SR: “Did Mr Witham tell you in that call any more about why he was arguing with Lee Harrison?”
NB: “Yeah, yeah he did. He said that he’d got his number off someone who was working with James at the time and was chatting about him to James’ runner.”
SR: “James got Lee’s number from someone who was working for James?”
NB: “I think there’d been an argument between James’ runner and Lee.”
SR: “Were you aware of this before this phone call?”
NB: “No I wasn’t, no.”
SR: “You mentioned something about Lee mentioning you?”
NB: “Lee said to James I had something to do with money getting picked up off someone. It was a load of lies.”
SR: “What did you think when Mr Witham told you that?”
NB: “I said let's just get it all out in the open. Give us his number and I’ll ring him now. To clear my name. I had nothing to do with anyone owing money to anyone or drugs going missing, anything like that.”
SR: “How did Mr Witham sound on the phone?”
NB: “He sounded pissed off.”
SR: “How did you feel at the end of that call?”
NB: “Not much really, I was just confused why my name was getting mentioned.”
SR: “Lee Harrison makes two attempts to contact Mr Witham which are unanswered then sends him three text messages. At 16.58, you called Lee Harrison for three minutes and 12 seconds. How long had it been since you’d last spoken to him?”
NB: “Coming on for three years. This is the first time I’ve heard him speaking about me and James.”
SR: “What were you hoping to achieve?”
NB: “Nothing, I just wanted to say what are you going on about? Why are you mentioning my name in an argument that had nothing to do with me?”
SR: “Did he respond?”
NB: “He did yeah. He said he didn’t mention my name, saying I had anything to do with it. It was a misunderstanding, it wasn’t anything like that. I was just telling him, don’t be mentioning my name, stop going around doing what you're doing.”
SR: “How were you saying that to him?”
NB: “I was just speaking to him normal. I said don’t be trying to throw dirt on my name having any involvement in the robbery, whether it be drugs, money or anyting. I said i’ll come down to the estate and I’ll punch your head in.”
SR: “That was a threat?”
NB: “Yes.”
SR: “Why were you threatening him?”
NB: “He was trying to throw my names into drugs or money getting robbed.
SR: “Why did that bother you?”
NB: “I never robbed anyone in my life.”
SR: “Did Mr Harrison respond to the threat you made?”
NB: “No he just said he knows it was nothing to do with me. I don’t know whether he knew I was speaking to James. I think he tried to shuffle the blame onto me not knowing I was speaking to James every day.”
SR: “You mentioned you’ll come down to the estate?”
NB: “Hillside. I know that’s where Lee hangs around.”
SR: “Were you intending to do that.”
NB: “No no. I said carry on mentioning my name and I’ll come down to the estate and punch your head in.”
SR: “Did you mention any threat to shoot him?”
NB: “No I never threatened to shoot him. I’ve never ever threatened to shoot Lee Harrison in my life, never ever.
SR: “How did that conversation come to an end?”
NB: “I think I put the phone down on him.”
SR: “Shortly afterwards, Mr Harrison then rings James Witham for three seconds but the call was forwarded. Then a message is sent. We can see you attempt again to contact Mr Witham, but you’re unsuccessful. Lee Harrison tries James Witham again, doesn’t get through. You call Mr Witham, a five second call between Harrison and James Witham. A text message. Attempts made by the three people involved to contact to each other.”
NB: “I was ringing to say i’d spoken to him.”
SR: “At 17.05 you managed to get hold of James Witham, you speak for three minutes and six seconds. What did you say?”
NB: “I told him, I just explained, I spoke to Lee and he told me what he said to James was a load of b******s. I told him to ring him back. James said to me, I know he’s chatting s*** anyway.”
SR: “What was your view of Lee Harrison at the end of those telephone calls?”
NB: “He’s not my friend. He’s not a friend of mine.”
SR: “You call Lee Harrison again for 36 seconds. Why did you call him again?”
NB: “I just wanted to confirm that I spoke to James again and he knows you’re chatting s***.. I can’t remember exactly what it was.”
SR: “How did you leave it?”
NB: “I just put the phone down.”
The court will now break for lunch, resuming at 2pm.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[HongKongPhooey]

13:42JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry 'threatened to punch Lee Harrison's head in'​

Mr Reiz moves on to July 26.
Mr Reiz says: “We can see on this day, your phone is cell siting in the Liverpool area. We can see Mr Witham’s phone is in Rhyl, as is the Kyle Line. You are in different places. At 16.46 Mr Witham made three calls to Lee Harrison. A few minutes later, you called James Witham for five minutes and 25 seconds.”
Barry: “That was just general chat, I was ringing to see what he was doing. He said he’d just been arguing with Lee. He said he was arguing with him over drugs and money what have been robbed and another bit of money. Lee said it was to do with me.”
SR: “Did you know which drugs he was referring to?”
NB: “Drugs what got robbed over the lockdown period. There was something else what got said. He said he mentioned my name, drugs going to someone and someone collecting the money.”
Barry says Lee Harrison had mentioned his name with regards to “drugs that had gone missing”
SR: “Did Mr Witham tell you in that call any more about why he was arguing with Lee Harrison?”
NB: “Yeah, yeah he did. He said that he’d got his number off someone who was working with James at the time and was chatting *advertiser censored* about him to James’ runner.”
SR: “James got Lee’s number from someone who was working for James?”
NB: “I think there’d been an argument between James’ runner and Lee.”
SR: “Were you aware of this before this phone call?”
NB: “No I wasn’t, no.”
SR: “You mentioned something about Lee mentioning you?”
NB: “Lee said to James I had something to do with money getting picked up off someone. It was a load of lies.”
SR: “What did you think when Mr Witham told you that?”
NB: “I said let's just get it all out in the open. Give us his number and I’ll ring him now. To clear my name. I had nothing to do with anyone owing money to anyone or drugs going missing, anything like that.”
SR: “How did Mr Witham sound on the phone?”
NB: “He sounded pissed off.”
SR: “How did you feel at the end of that call?”
NB: “Not much really, I was just confused why my name was getting mentioned.”
SR: “Lee Harrison makes two attempts to contact Mr Witham which are unanswered then sends him three text messages. At 16.58, you called Lee Harrison for three minutes and 12 seconds. How long had it been since you’d last spoken to him?”
NB: “Coming on for three years. This is the first time I’ve heard him speaking about me and James.”
SR: “What were you hoping to achieve?”
NB: “Nothing, I just wanted to say what are you going on about? Why are you mentioning my name in an argument that had nothing to do with me?”
SR: “Did he respond?”
NB: “He did yeah. He said he didn’t mention my name, saying I had anything to do with it. It was a misunderstanding, it wasn’t anything like that. I was just telling him, don’t be mentioning my name, stop going around doing what you're doing.”
SR: “How were you saying that to him?”
NB: “I was just speaking to him normal. I said don’t be trying to throw dirt on my name having any involvement in the robbery, whether it be drugs, money or anyting. I said i’ll come down to the estate and I’ll punch your head in.”
SR: “That was a threat?”
NB: “Yes.”
SR: “Why were you threatening him?”
NB: “He was trying to throw my names into drugs or money getting robbed.
SR: “Why did that bother you?”
NB: “I never robbed anyone in my life.”
SR: “Did Mr Harrison respond to the threat you made?”
NB: “No he just said he knows it was nothing to do with me. I don’t know whether he knew I was speaking to James. I think he tried to shuffle the blame onto me not knowing I was speaking to James every day.”
SR: “You mentioned you’ll come down to the estate?”
NB: “Hillside. I know that’s where Lee hangs around.”
SR: “Were you intending to do that.”
NB: “No no. I said carry on mentioning my name and I’ll come down to the estate and punch your head in.”
SR: “Did you mention any threat to shoot him?”
NB: “No I never threatened to shoot him. I’ve never ever threatened to shoot Lee Harrison in my life, never ever.
SR: “How did that conversation come to an end?”
NB: “I think I put the phone down on him.”
SR: “Shortly afterwards, Mr Harrison then rings James Witham for three seconds but the call was forwarded. Then a message is sent. We can see you attempt again to contact Mr Witham, but you’re unsuccessful. Lee Harrison tries James Witham again, doesn’t get through. You call Mr Witham, a five second call between Harrison and James Witham. A text message. Attempts made by the three people involved to contact to each other.”
NB: “I was ringing to say i’d spoken to him.”
SR: “At 17.05 you managed to get hold of James Witham, you speak for three minutes and six seconds. What did you say?”
NB: “I told him, I just explained, I spoke to Lee and he told me what he said to James was a load of b******s. I told him to ring him back. James said to me, I know he’s chatting s*** anyway.”
SR: “What was your view of Lee Harrison at the end of those telephone calls?”
NB: “He’s not my friend. He’s not a friend of mine.”
SR: “You call Lee Harrison again for 36 seconds. Why did you call him again?”
NB: “I just wanted to confirm that I spoke to James again and he knows you’re chatting s***.. I can’t remember exactly what it was.”
SR: “How did you leave it?”
NB: “I just put the phone down.”
The court will now break for lunch, resuming at 2pm.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Interesting piece. Basically he has given a reason as to why Ashley would say he’s coming after them I think.

 

[bobbymkii]

Reporting seems to have stopped from the Echo but I didn’t see a mention of lunch yet. Maybe a technical issue came up.

The technical issue may have been that the journo was so keen to get to lunch that he forgot to press "post" on his last update!

 

[Legally Bland]

14:26JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Issue with Lee Harrison 'had nothing to do with Glastonbury'​

Mr Reiz rises and resumes his questioning.
He returns to the phone calls between Barry and Lee Harrison on July 26.
SR: “Did that issue between Lee Harrison and James Witham have anything to do with Sean Zeisz being punched at Glastonbury?”
NB: “No. definitely not no.”
SR: “Did it have anything to do with the breakup of Sean Zeisz and Liv?”
NB: “No it didn't.”
SR: “Did it have anything to do with Dusty?”
NB: “No it didn't.”
SR: “Did you speak to him again?”
NB: “No, I never rang him back and he never rang me back.”
SR: “Did you ever see him again.”
NB: “Erm no. Oh yes I did sorry. I seen him in Rikki’s funeral.”
Mr Reiz moves on to July 27.
SR: “On this day, we can see your phone is connecting to a cell mast in Liverpool while Mr Witham is in Rhyl. At 12.26 you send a message to Paul Jordan with the number plate for that Audi S3.”
NB: “I was trying to get it insured. I was just trying to get it insured for James. I think he was busy doing something.”
SR: “Why were you contacting Paul Jordan?”
NB: “I don’t know what he does but he can insure cars. He can have your car flashing up green on the database.”
Mr Reiz moves on to August 1.
SR: “Again we have Mr Witham’s phone in North Wales and you are in Liverpool. You are messaging Paul Jordan again. ‘Did you insure that mate?’ He said ‘do it right now m8’. You said ‘thanks lad drop the doe to ya’.”
NB: “He charges I think it was £100 a month for the insurance.”
SR: “Did you drop him any money?”
NB: “I can’t remember, I must have, yeah.”
SR: “He sends you a screenshot of an insurance policy with hastings. Was there any reason the vehicle had to be insured?”
NB: “No I think it was just parked on a street. They can come and take it off the street if it is not insured.”
SR: “Was it insured when you went to Glastonbury?”
NB: “I’m unaware. It mustn’t have been.”
Mr Reiz asks about August 10, the day of Rikki’ Warnick’s funeral.
SR: “Did you go to the funeral?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah. It was in Rainford Crematorium.”
SR: “Who did you go with?”
NB: “I went with Sean, Ian, James and our other friend whos not involved in this case.”
SR: “You saw Lee Harrison there?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah. Just standing in the crowd of people.”
SR: “Did you say anything to him?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Did he speak to you?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Did you acknowledge each other?”
NB: “We just walked past each other, didn’t say anything.”
Barry says he did not see Ashley Dale at the funeral.
Mr Reiz shows some CCTV of Rikki Warnick’s wake in Ten Streets Social.
SR: “We can see David McCaig. Was he someone you knew?”
NB: “I’ve grew up in the same area as him.”
SR: “Was he a good friend?”
NB: “I’d say he was a friend.”
SR: “Michael Kershaw. How long had you known him?”
NB: “I’d known Kershaw about three years prior to this.”
SR: “Was he a friend?”
NB: “Yeah he was yeah.”
SR: “Did you all go to Ten Street Social?”
NB: “That was the after event to the funeral.”
SR: “Did you see Ashley Dale there?”
NB: “No I didn't see Ashley in there no.”
SR: “Did you see Lee Harrison in there?”
NB: “No I didn’t see him either.”
SR: “Did you have any feelings about whether he’d be there?”
NB: “No no definitely not no.”
Mr Reiz moves on to August 12.
He says there was a call from Barry to McCaig at 11.11am.
Barry says it was: “Just general talk, seeing what he was doing.”
David McCaig then rang Brian Gowland.
NB: “I don’t know who this person is.”
Mr Reiz says he was the person who sold the Hyundai.
SR: “Did you have anything to do with the acquisition of that vehicle?”
NB: “No I didn't.”
Barry says knew there was going to be part exchange with the Audi, but he was not aware what vehicle was involved.
NB: “I didn’t end up selling it. James said he was going to part exchange it for another car.”
At August 15, on 11.05 McCaig rings Witham.
SR: “What was the relationship Mr McCaig had with James Witham?”
NB: “They were just friends.”
SR: “We can see at 11.13, there are two attempts by Mr Witham to contact you. Do you remember what you were doing?”
NB: “No I can’t sorry.”
SR: “At 11.50 you send someone to a message whose contact name is ‘Brew new’.”
NB: “That was a friend. Lee Brewer.”
SR: “Can you recall why you were contacting him?”
NB: “No I can’t.”
Mr Reiz says McCaig is seen on CCTV at Pilch Lane.
He asks if Barry was in the flat at that time.
NB: “I probably was.”
Mr Reiz says McCaig is then messaging Mr Gowland. He is then seen walking away from 267 Pilch Lane with Witham.
He is asked if he was in the flat at that point.
NB: “I think i might have been, I’m not 100 per cent certain.”
SR: “This is the day they travel to go and get the Hyundai. Did you travel to get the Hyundai?”
NB: “No I didn’t no.”
SR: “Did you know they were going?”
NB: “I was aware they were going to buy a car that day yeah. They were going to Manchester to part exchange the Audi and pass money for a new car.”
Mr Reiz says at 14.09 “and twice thereafter” Witham calls Barry.
NB: “I spoke to him every day.”
SR: “Did you have any connection to the acquisition of the Hyundai?”
NB: “No I didn't.”
SR: “Did you know what he wanted the vehicle for?”
NB: “Yeah, he was just buying a new car.”
SR: “There’s a message sent to you (by James Brewer), ‘got car for you’.”
NB: “That was about a van. I was asking could he get me a van for around three grand. I just needed it for someone, someone needed it. I was gonna make a profit on it.”
Mr Reiz turns to the “Purchase of the vehicle”, the Hyundai.
SR: “Did you get paid any money as a result of your efforts to try and sell that Audi?”
NB: “No I didn't, I didn't end up selling it.”
SR: “Did you know how much the Hyundai cost?”
NB: “I can’t remember exactly. I think he swapped around five or six grand plus the Audi.”
Mr Reiz asked about Witham and McCaig return to Pilch Lane.
NB: “I can’t remember whether I was in the flat or not, no.”
SR: “Shortly thereafter you walk out of the flat with Mr Witham and Mr McCaig. can you remember where you went?”
NB: “I can’t sorry.”
SR: “About half an hour or so later, Mr Witham returns to the flat with Michael Kershaw. You return with Sean Zeisz?”
NB: “Yes.”
SR: “Where did you meet Sean?”
NB: “I think I met him round the corner. I think I just walked round to see him. I think he was at his friend’s around the corner.”
Barry is asked if he saw the Hyundai car, and says he did either that day or next day.
NB: “I thought it was a nice car.”
SR: “Did you drive it?”
NB: “I can’t drive, no.”
He says he was in car “once”, on August 19.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

14:34JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Drug money run to Wales​

Mr Reiz asks about two phone calls from Barry’s number to an unknown number.
SR: “Did you make these calls?”
NB: “Not that I can remember, no.”
There is a draft message with a mobile number which matches this number, along with car registration plates.
SR: “Who created that message?”
NB: “I created that message.”
SR: “Are you able to say when?”
NB: “It was around, it must have been around that time. August 16. It was the day after the Hyundai had been bought.”
SR: “Why did you type that message into your phone?”
NB: “I was having a discussion with James. I go down to North Wales with James and sell drugs. He would do his own thing. With what we do and where we go, Liverpool number plates come on top after you’ve been to a certain place too many times. We’re going there with drugs or coming home with money. It was ideal to have a spare set of plates in the boot. We could get rid of the police and change the plates.”
SR: “Did you own your own car?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Why was this of interest to you?”
NB: “It was my money what i was going to pick up with James.”
SR: “What was James Witham’s interest in Wales?”
NB: “He had his own phone down there, doing whatever he was doing.”
SR: “Why are those plates and the number in a draft message in your phone?”
NB: “I was just asked to type them in. I didn’t think anything of it.”
SR: “Who asked you to save them?”
NB: “James.”
SR: “Do you know what happened to those number plates?”
NB: “No I wasn’t there, whether they got sorted.”
SR: One of the number plates was later used on the Hyundai?”
NB: “I didn’t know that at the time.”
SR: “Did you know how those false number plates would be acquired?”
NB: “No I didn’t.”
Mr Reiz refers to August 19.
SR: “James Witham, Joseph Peers and you are leaving the flat at Pilch Lane. also with you is David McCaig. Do you remember where you were going?”
NB: “I was going to North Wales, yeah.”
SR: “Why were you going to North Wales?”
NB: “I was going to pick money up off a friend in Holywell in North Wales.”
SR: “Do you know why Mr Witham was travelling?”
NB: “He was going to pick money up also.”
SR: “From the same person?”
NB: “A different person.”
SR: “How did you usually get to North Wales?”
NB: “I’d have to get lifts.”
SR: “Who would usually give you a lift?”
NB: “All different people to be honest.”
SR: “Why did you understand Joseph Peers to be with you?”
NB: “I think he was just bored, he come along for the ride.”
SR: “What about David McCaig?”
NB: “I think he just came along for the ride. David McCaig drove that day.”
SR: “What did you do while you were in North Wales?”
NB: “I went and seen my friend in Holywell then got out and got picked up on the way back out.”
Mr Reiz refers to the return to Pilch Lane at 18.47.
SR: “You were taken to North Wales in the Hyundai. Apart from that day, had you ever been in that car?”
NB: “No I’ve never been in that car apart from that day.”
SR: “You enter the flat, we know you didn’t leave again until 10.53 on August 21. You remain in the flat throughout that time.”
NB: “I had to finish trimming the cannabis what I already had there. What I had to do was take all the big leaves off the plants. Once they’re dry, I’d have to trim all the buds with the leaves around the buds. It took me over two days to do it. I was with others but the majority I done it by myself.”
SR: “Did anyone else help you trim the plants?”
NB: “No.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

14:49JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Witham wanted to 'order cocaine to the flat'​

Mr Reiz turns to August 20.
SR: “What was your plan for the day?”
NB: “I was just chilling. I’d finished around teatime trimming all the weed. I was just gonna watch the boxing and just chill.”
SR: “Was Michale Kershaw in the flat on the morning of the 20th?”
NB: “I can’t remember, sorry.”
SR: “Do you know whether he told you what he was going to do that day?”
NB: “I can remember speaking to him, he was arranging to go to the Everton game that day.”
SR: “You were going to watch the boxing, who with?”
NB: “Just a few of the lads. A few people were gonna come round and watch it.”
SR: “We have four phone numbers attributed to you. One was used between July 24 and August 20. It’s a Nokia phone. That phone number was active between July 24 and August 20. Did you stop using that number on the 20th?”
NB: “Yeah I did yeah. I was getting harassed by a lot of unknown numbers ringing me, every day. An ex girlfriend it was, driving me insane. It was happening when I was with me girlfriend all the time. It was causing arguments between me and my girlfriend. I had to change my number.”
He says the next number was active from August 20 until his arrest on August 24.
SR: “Both sim cards were put into the same phone. Did you acquire a new phone and put it into your handset?”
NB: “I did yeah.”
Another number he used was active from August 18 onwards.
NB: “That was just a phone my girlfriend give me when I told her my old one was water damaged. I was just using it for me internet.”
Mr Reiz refers to calls from from Barry to Peers at 14.49 on August 20.
SR: “After that the number wasn’t in use. Is that what you explained a moment ago about that number? You stopped using it?”
NB: “Yes. yes.”
SR: “Later that day, at 17.51, we know that Mr Peers and Mr Fitzgibbon went to the shop, the Go Local, adjacent to the flat and purchased a sim card or a top up that was put into that same Nokia handset. How did that happen?”
NB: “We were just all sitting in the flat together. I think they were going down for drinks and sweets. They said did you want anything? I said do me a favour please, get me a sim card and credit.”
SR: “Was it a sim card or a top up?”
NB: “Both.”
SR: “Did you have that sim card before that day?”
NB: “No no.”
SR: “You put it into your phone. The number activates.”
NB “Yes.”
SR: “At 19.20, Mr Kershaw and Mr Witham enter the flat. Do you know where they had been?”
NB: “I was aware they had been to the Everton game. Everton had been playing Nottingham Forest.”
SR: “Did you see Mr Witham?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah.”
SR: “What was he like?”
NB: “Drunk, he’d just been the game. He’d been drinking for hours. Just loud.”
SR: “What was he doing in the flat?”
NB: “Nothing, just being loud.”
SR: “Who else was there?”
NB: “Michael was there, I was there. I think Joseph and Ian was there as well?”
SR: “What were you doing.”
NB: “Just chilling. I was f***** I’d been cutting the weed down for two days. I was absolutely f***** to be fair. I was just chilling on the couch.”
SR: “22 minutes later Mr Witham leaves. He has Mr Fitzgibbon and Mr Peers with him.”
NB: “I can’t recall that happening no.”
SR: “They go to Adisco food and wine.”
NB: “They might have said we’ll be back in a minute, we’re just going the shop.”
SR: “They travel there in the Hyundai. Was anything being purchased for you?”
NB: “At this time? No.”
SR: “Were you drinking?”
NB: “No I don’t drink, very very rarely.”
SR: “Did you have food in the flat?”
NB: “I’d just ordered something from somewhere in Wavertree called the Spitroast, I was waiting for that to be delivered.”
SR: “At 20.24, whilst they’re at the shop, a taxi pulls up and delivers goods.”
NB: “That was a taxi driver who picked me food up from Wavertree.”
SR: “Who was the food for?”
NB: “A few of us who were in the flat.”
SR: “What was your plan?”
NB: “Get some food down me, I think i was starving. Just chill and watch the boxing the rest of the night.”
SR: “Did you have a key to the flat?”
NB: “There was just one key. That was it.”
SR: “Did you have it?”
NB: “I was inside the flat. It must have been yeah.”
SR: “When you had a guest, how would they enter?”
NB: “They’d have to knock on the door?”
SR: “We can see Mr Witham rings you but it goes to voicemail, then he rings Mr Kershaw?”
NB: “I’d changed me number by this point.”
SR: “This is very soon before they arrive back at the flat. Do you know what the attempted call was about?”
NB: “Probably to say they were outside. Can you open the door for us.”
SR: “At 21.19, Mr Zeisz attends the flat as well. Were you expecting him?”
NB: “I think so. Someone said he’ll pop round later on or something.”
SR: “Did you invite people to watch the boxing?”
NB: “Just when i’d be speaking to the lads I’d say what are you doing? I had one of these boxes, you can get all the channels for fighting and football.”
SR: “What was happening in the flat in that time period?”
NB: “I can’t remember what we were doing to be honest. I was sitting on the couch, I think we were having a spliff.”
SR: “Was there conversation?”
NB: “Yeah there was.”
SR: “What was Mr Witham like?”
NB: “He was drunk, he was being very loud. I was f***** to be honest. I don’t really drink, I don’t take drugs. He was being very loud. I asked him to chill out. People like that do my head in when they’re off their heads. They go on.”
SR: “Did he quieten down?”
NB: “No?”
SR: “What were you thinking about his behaviour?”
NB: “I weren't really bothered but it was doing my head in. He was trying to get drugs to the flat and that was going to increase his behaviour more. He was saying he was going to order cocaine to the flat.
SR: “Was that a problem for you?”
NB: “We was chilling around the couch. He was the only one up loud under the influence of cocaine under the influence of them kind of drugs. It was a bit of a problem yeah. I just wanted a chilled night. I couldn’t be arsed with people off their barnets around me.”
SR:: “Did you do anything as a result?”
NB: “I said you’re not ordering no cocaine here. You’re not ordering no charlie here, that’s the word I use for it.. If you’re going to do that, go elsewhere.”
SR: “Did he say anything to you?”
NB: “I can’t remember word for word, he said yeah yeah. He was gonna get off.”
SR: “Did he?”
NB: “He did yeah.”
SR: “Did he go on his own?”
NB: “No, as he was getting off Joe said he was going home as well.”
SR: “Had you asked Joseph Peers to leave?”
NB: “No I hadn't, no.”
SR: “Did you know why he was leaving?”
NB: “No he just said he was walking round to his.”
SR: “Did you know at what time the boxing main event was meant to start?”
NB: “I knew it was around 11, 12. I can’t put an exact time on it. I can’t remember if it was Callum Smith, one of the brothers was fighting before.”
SR: “At 22.10, we see Mr Peers and Mr Witham. Did Mr Witham tell you where he was going to go?”
NB: “No he never no.”
SR: “Did he tell you what he was planning on doing?”
NB: “No he didn’t.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

15:13JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry 'can't remember' calling Witham and Peers after they left flat​

Mr Reiz refers to Ian Fitzgibbon sending Witham a message eight minutes after Witham left the flat.
Barry says he was unaware of this
There is then an “exchange of messages” between the Fitzgibbon and Witham.
SR: “Can you remember what you were doing?”
NB: “I can’t remember, no”
SR: “You made an attempt to call Mr Witham’s number. Why did you do that?”
NB: “I couldn’t tell you. It’s got no relevance to me.”
SR: “You tried to reach Joseph Peers. why did you call Mr Peers?”
NB: “I can’t remember. It hasn’t got through. I couldn’t remember why I tried to do it.”
SR: “At 22.47, did you set up an Apple ID?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah. I was gonna download, I can’t remember. I think I was trying to download something like a stream to where I could watch something on my phone.”
SR: “A review of that iPhone, the one you set up the Apple ID on, that was examined, the police recovered the internet history. On both the 18th and 19th of August you viewed Autotrader, why did you visit that site?”
NB: “Around that time I was looking to get me girlfriend a new car.”
Mr Reiz turns to his internet history on August 20 and 21.
SR: “There was access made to Google at midday. We will see that phone connected to the Liverpool Echo at various times. Is the Liverpool Echo a news source you would read?
NB: “I read the Echo every day. I would go onto me Safari and type in Liverpool Echo.
SR: “And that would give you the link to the website?”
NB: “That would give me the link to the website.”
SR: “We can see google search Liverpool Echo. and the same a second later, and again. Then eventually you visited Liverpoolecho.co.uk. How many times do you think you’ve accessed the website on that occasion?”
NB: “I couldn’t tell you yeno.”
Mr Reiz refers to another visit to the Echo website.
SR: “There’s a story entitled ‘heroin importer nicknamed himself after England striker’. Is that a story you remember reading?”
NB: “I remember clicking on it, it was on the home page. Just seeing what it was about.”
SR: “Another story, one man and two teens found injured in street. Is that a story you read?”
NB: “I must have yeah.”
SR: “What material would you look at on the website?”
NB: “Whatever was on there. You just see all different stories and have a nose at them.”
Mr Reiz refers to another article Barry read, headlined: “Senseless loss of ‘little man Sam’ leaves city reeling’.
SR: “Is that a story you read at the time?”
NB: “It is yeah. I just wanted to see what had happened, see what the Echo were saying about it.”
Mr Reiz says he read an article entitled: ‘ who blasted rival with shotgun wanted by police’.
SR: “A story you read?”
NB: “It would have been yeah. Just on the homepage, browsing.”
SR: “At 12.09, you access the Liverpool Echo homepage again. Is there any reason why you went back so soon?”
NB: “No, no reason.”
SR: “You accessed the crime section of the Liverpool Echo. how did you do that?”
NB: “It’s just if you click on certain things, it will come up. The crime section.”
SR: “12.11, you again access the homepage of the Liverpool Echo. was there any reason for that?”
NB: “No there wasn’t no.”
SR: “At 12.11, you again access the homepage of the Echo. was there any reason for that?”
NB: “No, no.”
SR: “We can see there’s a gap in the activity of the phone. From 12.11 until 22.50 there’s no internet activity. Are you able to explain why that was?”
NB: “I think I was just chilling, socialising with the lads. I weren't really on my phone as much.”
SR; “You’re back online at 22.50. You have a look at the homepage of the Liverpool Echo. Any reason in particular?”
NB: “I was just having a browse.”
SR: “You did a google search for Autotrader.”
NB: “I was just browsing for cars, I was looking for a new car for me girlfriend.”
SR: “You do a google search for Autotrader SDR Range Rover.”
NB: “I was just looking for a car for me girlfriend. That’s the type of car she likes”
Mr Reiz says there are several more entries for Autotrader.
SR: “At the time, what were you doing?”
NB: “Just looking at cars.”
SR: “What was happening in the flat?”
NB: “Nothing, just chilling. Just waiting for the boxing to come on.”
SR: “Where were you in the flat?”
NB: “I was sitting on the couch.”
SR: “Was there any discussion about Mr Witham?”
NB: “No, no.”
SR: “About Mr Peers?”
NB: “No discussion no.”
Mr Reiz highlights further visits to Autotrader.
SR: “You are looking at a 2017 black Range Rover. Is that a vehicle you were interested in?”
NB: “Yeah I was yeah.”
SR: “It’s three minutes past 11. The ringwalks would have been underway. You’re still on the Autotrader website looking at a 2010 black Mercedes Benz?”
NB: “I was just scrolling through and it come up.”
SR: “Were you interested in where Mr Witham was?”
NB: “No I wasn't, no.”
SR: “At 23.04, you are looking at a 2014 silver Mercedes Benz.”
NB: “Yes.”
Mr Reiz says there are further entries for Autotrader, the last being “about two minutes after the first round began”.
SR: “Did you have the boxing match on in the flat?”
NB: “The boxing match was on in the flat yeah. It was on the telly, through a box. It was just a box what you could get all the channels you couldn’t normally get.”
SR: “Did you pay for the match?”
NB: “No I didn’t pay for it, we were watching it on one of those boxes.”
SR: “What was the connection like?”
NB: “It was bad. It keep stopping and starting, freezing.”
Mr Reiz says there are more visits to the Autotrader website.
SR: “A 2010 blue Mercedes Benz. Why were you still on the website after the boxing had started?”
NB: “I was probably watching the boxing and flicking through on me phone at the same time.”
SR: “Did the picture improve or not?”
NB: “I can’t remember exactly. I can remember it playing about.”
Mr Reiz says at 23.33, there are further visits to Autotrader.
SR: “This is 20 minutes into the fight, you’re on the Autotrader website. You then go to google. At 23.35, you do a google search for live boxing.”
NB: “That’s where the boxing was messing about, it kept freezing and jittering. I was trying to get it up on my phone, by finding a stream where it was getting watched on. And then you can watch it on that.”
Mr Reiz reads an entry from his search history entitled “Streams live joshua v Usyk 2”. Did you access that site?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah. It was a proper headache so I tried to get it on my phone if the picture didn’t get better.”
SR: “We can see the website is called eventbrite.co.uk estreams. Can you remember if that worked?”
NB: “I cant remember yeno. I remember one of them did work.”
SR: “Was there any conversation in the room?”
NB: “Yeah there was, just about the telly. I remember someone ‘saying this is a f****** nightmare this. Try and get it up on your phone’. So I was trying to get it up on my phone.”
SR: “You access bestsportsstream.com.”
NB: “I was just trying a few different websites.”
SR: “You visited the Liverpool Echo homepage at 23.36. Do you remember why you did that?”
NB: “No, I can’t, no.”
SR: “Five seconds later, you’re on Google. You’re searching for live boxing. During this period were you able to watch any of the boxing?”
NB: “I can’t recall. The telly must have still been messing about at this point. I’m still trying to find it on me phone.”
SR: “You access a site, play.acast.com. Usyk v AJ fight live. After that, at 23.33, there’s no activity on your fight until past midnight.”
NB: “That’s where the fight had probably come on. I was just chilling watching the fight.”
SR: “Did you attempt to contact Mr Witham or Mr Peers?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Did you know where they were?”
NB: “No i didn’t”
SR: “Were you interested?”
NB: “No, I wasn’t.”
The court will now take a short break.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[scapa]

Interesting piece. Basically he has given a reason as to why Ashley would say he’s coming after them I think.

Agree.

I'm Orcadian and my partner is from a beach town in the Southwest -- we're both trying to wrap our heads round this one. So many lives involved and so many seem to have brought the drama with them all the way along. And everything they flipping do seems illegal, from the county lines drugs, to the robberies, the motor flipping and even the crappy cable box. Argh.

It all seems desperately sad to me.

Props to those posting the live updates, and to the Echo for their excellent coverage to date.

 

[Legally Bland]

15:40JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry continues to search Liverpool ECHO crime section​

Mr Reiz returns to the “inactivity” on Barry’s phone.
SR: “We know the boxing match, the result was announced at nine minutes past midnight. It’s 40 minutes after that your phone is active, online, again. You were in the flat with Mr Fitzgibbon, Mr Zeisz and Mr Kershaw.”
NB: “That’s right yeah.”
SR: “At quarter to 1, we can see Ian Fitzgibbon leaves. Were you aware he had left?”
NB: “Yeah he said he was going home yeah. He just said it to the lads in the flat. He said he was getting his sister to pick him up. I was in the living room. I think they was in the living room as well.”
SR: “What was your plan?”
NB: “I was planning on staying up to watch the UFC but I was tired.”
SR: “About four minutes or so after Mr Fitzgibbon leaves, your phone is active again. You do a Google search for the Liverpool Echo. Were you looking for anything in particular?”
NB: “No no, just browsing.”
SR: “You reach the homepage. You access a story about a home in a private gated community which ‘has the wow factor’.
NB: “I was just looking at it. It was a lovely house, i think it was by Formby somewhere.”
Mr Reiz says he also accessed an article titled: “Spa like home with a sauna with electric gates for sale”.
SR: The prosecution case is rhe shooting had happened about 20 minutes earlier and you were anxious to find out whether it had been reported. Is that true?”
NB: “No, that’s not true.”
SR: “You look at a story which had first pictures of man and women after Concert Square video shared.”
NB: “I was just browsing, going through, having a look at a few things.”
SR: “Cordon in place after drive by shooting’. Do you remember what that was about?”
NB: “I think it was to do with the little lad that got killed in Dingle.”
SR: “The jury have heard this has nothing to do with the shooting of Ashley Dale. Why were you looking at that story?”
NB: “I just clicked on it. It was a news story.”
SR: “One minute to 1am, you’re on the Liverpool Echo news section. Any particular reason?”
NB: “No, just carrying on browsing.”
SR: “You’re on the crime section.”
NB: “It’s where I must have just clicked on something.”
SR: “At 1.03 a google search for Liverpool Echo. You’re on the Liverpool Echo again in the crime section. Was there something in particular you were looking for?”
NB: “Nothing in particular no.”
SR: “You access a news story about a ‘ handed second chance but blew it 48 hours later’.
NB: “It was just something I clicked on and had a read.”
SR: “A number of attempts to access the Echo homepage. You do a google search for Autotrader.”
NB: “It would have been just still browsing for a car, but i can’t remember doing it.”
SR: “During that period, we know Mr Fitzgibbon left. Did anyone come back to the flat?”
NB: “Erm yeah.”
SR: “Were you expecting anyone else that night”?
NB: “No I wasn’t, no.”

15:50KEY EVENT

'Witham told me he had shot Harrison's house up'​

Mr Reiz says: “At 1.25, we can see Mr Witham and Mr Peers attend the flat. Did you know either of them was going to come back?”
Barry says: “I was aware Joe was meant to be coming back.”
SR: “What about Mr Witham.”
NB: “I wasn’t aware of that no.”
SR: “Can you describe their demeanours?”
NB: “James was quiet, Joe was just normal.”
SR: “Was there any conversation?”
NB: “Erm yeah, just speaking about the boxing generally.”
SR: “Anything else?”
NB: “No.”
SR: “Was the television on?”
NB: “Yeah it was on yeah. I think we were trying to get the UFC on.”
SR: “What’s the next thing you remember happening?”
NB: “I can just remember chilling in the flat, smoking a spliff.”
SR: “Were you all in the room together?”
NB: “Yeah we was. The only time someone left the room was when Sean, I think he was just on the phone to Liv or someone. I remember him saying he was f*****. He went in the other room, in the bedroom.”
SR: “There’s a visit by your phone to the Echo website at 1.38. The next activity on your phone is at 2.23. Why was there a gap of 45 minutes. Any reason for that?”
NB: “I couldn’t tell you to be honest.”
SR: “At 3.04, you’re on the Autotrader website again.”
NB: “Yes.”
SR: “When you were looking at Autotrader or the Echo, were you engaging in conversation as well?”
NB: “Probably yeah.”
SR: “Can you remember what was being discussed?”
NB: “I can’t no.”
SR: “Did Mr Witham say anything to you that you can remember?”
NB: “Yes I can.”
SR: “What time do you think he said that.”
NB: “I couldn’t put a time on it to be honest, an exact time.”
SR: “Who was in the flat at the time Mr Witham said something.”
NB: “Me, Kershaw and Zeisz.”
SR: “What about Joseph Peers.”
NB: “No, Joe Peers wasn’t there at the time.”
SR: “We can see Mr Peers left the flat at 3.16. Did you say Mr Kershaw was there?”
NB: “Mr Kershaw was there yeah.”
SR: “Mr Peers left, did he say anything.”
NB: “I can’t remember, I was half asleep on the couch. I’d been up for two days messing about with the weed, I couldn’t keep my eyes open.”
SR: “He leaves, did you speak to Mr Witham.”
NB: “He said he had something to tell me. He said he’d just shot Saz’s house up.”
SR: “What was your reaction?”
NB: “I was absolutely f***** at the time. I jumped up and I was wide awake after he said it to me. I said why the f*** have you done this, what the f*** are you doing coming back here. I didn’t want to involve meself in something like that. I’ve stayed on them shops. I know the area, i know there’s cameras everywhere. I knew no matter what it would have come out that he’d been there, into the flat after he’s just done whatever he’s done.”
SR: “What were you concerned about?”
NB: “Being around him, I just didn’t want that to happen. I’d been growing weed in that flat for quite a while. It was a quiet flat. I didn’t want things like that to come back to the flat.”
SR: “Did he say why he’d done it?”
NB: “He did.”
SR: Why did he say he had done it?”
NB: “He said Lee had been trying to rob his graft or his line, something along them lines.”
SR: “Did you ask him which line?”
NB: “It was over something to do with Wales.”
SR: “Is this something you were aware of before that day?”
NB: “Yeah but I weren't aware anything like this was gonna happen.”
SR: “He said Lee had been trying to rob his graft, were you aware of that?”
NB: “I was aware something had happened but he didn’t go into detail. He told me. I think it was on the Friday. He just said that Lee had done something to someone who was working for him and told him to stop grafting, he weren't allowed to graft round there no more. Lee told James’ worker, his runner, that he wasn’t allowed to graft around there no more.”
SR: “James Witham told you about that on the Friday. What was your reaction?”
NB: “Just ignore him, keep on doing what you’re doing. He wasn't happy.”
SR: “Did he say he was going to do anything about it?”
NB: “He didn’t say anything. He just said he’d see him when he’d see him.”
SR: “Did you ask him any other questions?”
NB: “Can I swear? I said why the f*** have you come back here and why the f*** have you done this? He said it was because Lee had been trying to rob his workers. Everyone was fuming who was in the flat, Kershaw and Zeisz. It was me and Kershaw in the room when he told me. I’ve jumped off the couch and went into Zeisz and told him what he’d said. We had a word with him and that was the end of it.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

16:01KEY EVENT

'My heart just sank'​

Mr Reiz asks: “Did you know at that stage someone had been shot?”
Barry replies: “I definitely didn’t. He told me he shot the house up. I’m thinking he’s stood outside and shot through the windows. I know that’s a long way from what happened but that’s what he said.”
SR:: “Did you ask whether there was anyone inside at the time?”
NB: “I didn’t ask him and I don’t think he knew. The words he said was he shot the house up. I’m thinking bullets have been shot from outside the house. There was not one word about doors getting battered down or anything like that.”
Mr Reiz reads an agreed fact: “At 3.39, a figure believed to be Michael Kershaw is exiting 267 Pilch Lane. He leaves at this time?”
NB: “Yeah”
SR: “By this time, had Mr Witham made that admission to you?”
NB: “He did yeah.”
SR: “What did you say to Mr Witham. How did this conversation end?”
NB: “I told him he’s gonna have to go.”
SR: “Did he go?”
NB; “He did yes.”
SR; “Did he go straight away?”
NB: “Erm, no. I can’t remember exactly what he done. I thought that he left around the same time as Kershaw. Kershaw got off fuming, saying he didn’t want to be around something like this.”
SR: “We can see Mr Witham leaves at 20 past 4. There’s a period of about 40 minutes. What was happening during that 40 minute period?”
NB: “I don't know. He weren't in the room with me. I was in the living room, half asleep on the couch.”
SR: “Do you know where he was?”
NB: “I don't know, don't know.”
Mr Reiz refers to activity on Barry’s phone at 9.56am.
SR: “After Mr Witham had made that admission, did you go online to see if there was any reporting of it?”
NB: “Only the next day.”
SR: “The next day, you can see at 8am your number connects to the network. At 9.26, a story is published following a press release about the shooting of a woman found in her back garden. You accessed the Liverpool Echo website 30 minutes after this. Did you see that story?”
NB: “Yes I did yeah. I thought that Ashley had been either sitting on the couch or something along those lines. I knew exactly what had happened. My heart just sank. I thought he’d shot the house up. My reaction was Ashley must have been sitting on the couch and a bullet has gone through the window and hit Ashley.”
SR: “That’s what you thought. Did Mr Witham say that to you?”
NB: “No he didn’t no. he just said he’d shot the house up. When I seen a woman had been shot dead, that was my automatic reaction. I ran into the bedroom, woke Sean up. I said I think Ashley’s died. I was screaming. I was just sad about the situation.”
SR: “What was Mr Zeisz’s reaction.”
NB: “He jumped up as well, fuming.”
SR; “Your access to the Echo website is at 9.56, four minutes later you made a phone call to your girlfriend.”
NB: “I knew she’d been out the night before with her sisters watching the boxing herself. She went to town. I was just seeing what she was up to.”
Barry says he did not speak to her about the shooting.
SR: “At 10.15, we see Mr Zeisz sends a message to Liv saying ‘need to see you’. Was he still in the flat?”
NB: “I think so yeah.”
SR: “You then make an attempt to call Mr Kershaw.”
NB: “I can’t remember specifically the reason.”
SR: “At 10.53, you and Mr Zeiszl eave the flat carrying bags. What was in the bags?”
NB: “Cannabis. I was going to sell the cannabis.”
SR: “Is that something you were intending to do before?”
NB: “I only finished cutting the weed down about teatime the night before. I was gonna get rid of it the next day.”
SR: “Why was Sean Zeisz with you?”
NB: “I was passing him money off the cannabis. About two weeks before a friend who I seen, he’s from Preston, he was coming down to buy 2kg of cocaine. I only had one. I got one off Sean to pass him.”
SR: “Did you pay Mr Zeisz the money you owed him?”
NB: “Yeah most of it that day. I give him 15 grand i think, that day.”
Barry says they drove in Zeisz’s car.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

16:07JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I didn't want to get caught up in this'​

Mr Reiz asks: “At 12.21, Mr Peers makes an attempt to contact Sean Zeisz. Mr Peers rang your number. Were you aware Mr Peers was trying to reach you?”
Barry says: “No no, I changed my number the day before.”
SR: “Where did you spend the afternoon?”
NB: “I went to Dovecot, passed the weed to someone, then I went to Ian’s. Sat there for a bit, explained to him what had happened, the situation. Me and Sean went there.”
SR: “What did you say?”
NB: “Witham had opened up and said he shot Lee’s house up, then the next morning come to the conclusion Ashley had been killed.”
SR: “What was his reaction?”
NB: “Shocked, angry.”
SR: “What was going through your mind?”
NB: “A lot of things. I just didn’t want to get caught up in this . Just being around someone. I was aware at that point he’d done it in his own car. I’ve been in that car a couple of days before. I knew there were cameras everywhere that I had been in that car.”
SR: “How did you know he had done it in his own car?”
NB: “He mentioned it on that night.”
SR: “You’d been in that car a few days before?”
NB: “When I went to Wales on the 19th.”
SR: “What did you think might happen?”
NB: “I thought I’d get arrested.”
SR: “What did you decide to do?”
NB: “I just wanted to distance myself from the situation as much as I could really.”
SR: “You went to Ian Fitzgibbon’s and spoke to him.”
NB: “We told him yeah.”
SR: “Did you go anywhere else?”
NB: “I remember going to Childwall, I remember speaking to David McCaig. The three of us went to see Mr McCaig my the Co-op in Childwall. I was going to inform him what had happened. He acquired the car for James.”
SR: “Did you go anywhere after that?”
NB: “Yeah. back to Ian’s.”
SR: “How long did you stay there for?”
NB: “I remember we were just there till the next day I was there, till the next day.”
SR: “Who was with you?”
NB: “Me Sean, I think Kershaw as well.”
SR: “What was the discussion amongst you?”
NB: “Everyone was speaking about what had happened.”
Barry says they spoke about wanting “To find James and get him to hand himself in”.
He says that was “all of our idea”.
SR: “Why did you think that was the thing to do?”
NB: “At the end of the day, an innocent person’s been killed. We tried a few people but no one had seen him.”
SR: “Did you try to call himself?”
NB: “I didn’t. I didn’t want to ring him. I just didn’t. I just thought, I just didn’t want to ring his phone off my personal phone. I know what he’s just done. I just didn’t want to be in contact with him again.”

16:13JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry 's home was raided in 2021​

Mr Reiz says that at 17.34 Niall Barry, Ian Fitzgibbon, Sean Zeisz and Michael Kershaw return to Pilch Lane.
Barry says: “I was going to collect some belongings I left in the flat.”
Mr Reiz refers to messages sent on August 22.
SR: “The phone, your iPhone, is in contact with someone called Gus. who is Gus?”
NB: “I don’t know him. A friend give me his number?”
SR: “Why did a friend give you Gus’ number?”
NB: “Because I was trying to leave the country. Just to distance meself from the whole situation to be honest.”
SR: “How was gus going to assist you in doing that?”
NB: “He was just going to get me out the country.”
SR: “Why did you need someone’s help.”
NB: “For the last 12 months beforehand, about 8 months, I’ve been living on me toes thinking I was wanted. On December 23, where I was living, the apartment in town I’d been living for four years, my door got took off my the police at half seven in the morning. I was out with my girlfriend at the time. I come back the next day. Since then, I’ve never been back or enquired what they come for.”
SR: “We can see the messages. There’s a message from Gus saying ‘sound it be in mids or south you ready leave anytime’.
NB: “I’d be getting picked up in the midlands or down south.”
SR: “Gus says ‘sound i’ll speak kid tell him need on next one and drop ye f or ams’.
NB: “I was leaving the country. I think it means France or Amsterdam. I was planning on going to Europe.”
SR: “Did you tell your girlfriend about your plan?”
NB: “No I didn't.”
SR: “At 1706 you made a phone call to Sean Zeisz for 23 seconds. Do you remember what you discussed?”
NB: “I can’t remember exactly no.”
SR: “There’s a phone call back for 1 minute and 22 seconds. Did you tell him what you were planning on doing?”
NB: “Yeah I did. I don’t know if I did in those phone calls but I definitely did.”
SR: “August 23 now. Gus messages you and says ‘have info today what’s what bro’. August 24, the day of your arrest, you messaged Gus ‘ok son nice one thank you’. When did you think you would be leaving?”
NB: : “In the next couple of days.”
SR: “On August 24, that’s you walking through the reception area of Formby Hall Golf and Spa resort.”
NB: “I was just staying there with me girlfriend. I hadn’t seen her for a bit. I was meant to be going and seeing Coldplay with her the weekend before. I’d stayed there numerous times with me girlfriend.”
SR: “We know at around 22.54 police enter the hotel and you were arrested. Where were you when the officers attended the room.”
NB: “I was lying on the bed.”
SR: “Was Lucy there as well?”
NB: “She was standing up by the telly. I was just in shock to be honest.”
SR: “Did they arrest you for murder.”
NB: “Yes they did yeah.”
SR: “Did you know what it was about?”
NB: “I had an idea yeah. I thought it was about the murder of Ashley, cos I’d been in that car. That was the first thing I thought in my head.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

16:27KEY EVENT

'I would never do this'​

Mr Reiz says: “An officer said after you were arrested you made a comment. ‘It’s nothing to do with her, she didn’t hurt no one’. Did you say that?”
Barry replies: “No, I didn’t say that.”
SR: “What did you say?”
NB: “I said stop pointing your guns at my girlfriend. She was crying. She weed herself she was that scared.”
SR: “How many guns were pointed at your girlfriend?”
NB: “Seven or eight. They had lasers on them.”
SR: “Why did you say that?”
NB: “Because they were pointing guns at my girlfriend, she had lasers all over her. That’s alls I said.”
SR: “There are details of what was found in your hotel room and Ms Worley’s vehicle. You had a lot of clothing.”
NB: “It was just clothes I’d removed from the flat the day before.”
Mr Reiz says he had more than £10,000 in cash.
NB: “It come from the cannabis what I’d sold out the flat. I’d only just picked it up, on me way to Formby Hall. I went to West Kirby, I picked the money up from West Kirby. I went straight from West Kirby straight to Formby Hall. .
SR: “We can see a black Nokia mobile phone. That was found on top of the bedside table. That was the phone you had changed the sim in on August 20. You also had with you the other two handsets you had been using previously. Did you get rid of any phone after shooting of Ashley Dale?”
NB: “No I didn’t.”
SR: “You were taken to the police station. You were provided with a solicitor. We can see a summary of the statements you made. You were asked about that statement you were alleged to have made after your arrest. You went on to say he said the officers should not point guns at Lucy Worley because she’s a good girl. The words were coming out of me mouth, surely to god you’ve got video evidence.”
Barry agrees
Mr Reiz says he gave a prepared statement under interview.
SR: “You did not kill Ashley Dale?”
NB: “That’s correct yes.”
SR: “You were in the flat at Pilch Lane?”
NB: “Yes i was.”
SR: “I was in Plch Lane from August 19 to 21.”
NB: “That’s right.”
SR: “You didn’t leave at any point?”
NB: “No I didn’t.”
SR: “Did you provide your pin number?”
NB: “I did yes.”
SR: “You said you will be making no comment to the questions asked?”
NB: “That was just me legal advice.”
SR: “Why did you not answer the questions?”
NB: “Me legal advice was just to go no comment. I just went with the advice.”
SR: “You did answer some questions. You were asked if you were using your phone, you said you were using it to watch the Anthony Joshua fight.”
NB: “I stand by that yeah.”
SR: “You made reference to the UFC fight?”
NB: “Yes.”
SR: “You said all them clothes are dirty washing which I was passing to her to get washed. Was that right?”
NB: “All them clothes what were in them bags were dirty. There were only a few clean trackies in there.”
SR: “What were you going to take with you when you left the country
NB: “Just basic stuff what I needed. Just loads of shorts, trackies.”
SR: “Why did you have so much clothing with you?”
NB: “I was gonna get me girlfriendf to wash most of me clothes and keep some of them with me.”
Mr Reiz says “When James Witham left 267 Pilch Lane at 10.10pm on August 20, did you know he was going to go on to discharge a firearm at 40 Leinster Road?”
NB: “No I did not.”
SR: “Did you encourage him to do that?”
NB: “No I did not. If i had any inkling he was going to do that. I would not have let him leave that flat. If I knew he was going to do what he was going to do there is not a chance I would have let him leave even if he was doing my head in.”
SR: “Do you know how he acquired the Skorpion sub-machine gun.”
NB: “No I don’t.”
SR: “Had he ever mention a Skorpion to you?”
NB: “He mentioned something, but he didn’t say the weapon. He mentioned someone passed him a gun for money he was owed.”
SR: “Did you ever agree to anyone to murder Lee Harrison?”
NB: “I’ve never ever agreed anyone to murder Lee Harrison. I’ve never had a fight with him, I’ve never looked sideways at him. My problems with him was four years before him. I’m not saying I’m some big hard case but he’s half the size of me, I wouldn’t need a gun to have a fight with him.”
Mr Reiz asks if he had been part of a plot to shoot Ashley Dale.”
NB: “Not a chance in the world. I’d always got on with Ashley and she was a lovely girl. I would never condone going to someone’s house. I had always said if you have a problem you would go to someone and deal with it in the street. I’d never take any problems to anyone's houses.”
Mr Reiz says he has no further questions, and that concludes Barry’s evidence in chief.
The trial will not be sitting tomorrow, but John Cooper, KC, says he wishes to ask questions of him on Friday on behalf of Ian Fitzgibbon.
The jury are excused and asked to return on Friday at 10.30am. Thanks for following our updates, we will return on Friday with further live coverage.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[bobbymkii]

I wonder why Kershaw wasn't charged? Being in the Pilch Lane flat at the time of Ashley's murder seems to have been enough on its' own to implicate some of these defendants in the plot, but not him!