GUILTY UK - Ashley Dale, 28 fatally shot at home, Liverpool - 21 Aug 2022

[Legally Bland]

12:45JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I'd never see no harm come to me two friends'​

Mr Cooper says: “This is at 14.53. We see you with Mr Peers. How did it come that you met up with Mr Peers?”
Fitzgubbon says: “When I’ve had my feet done, my little sister was dropping me off at the flat. I called Joe and said are you coming down and having a few drinks. The fight was on later that evening.”
JC: “Were you dropped off, what time approximately?”
IF: “The time it shows here.”
JC: “Why did you want to be dropped off back at Pilch Lane.”
IF: “We’d all said the night before we was watching the Anthony Joshua boxing that night on the flat.”
JC: “Who’s we?”
IF: “Me Joe, James, Sean, Michael Kershaw. All the lads, basically.”
JC: “When was this understanding reached?”
IF: “From the night before.”
JC: “On August 19.”
IF: “Yes sir.”
JC: “Had you been with them?”
IF: “I had a drink with them in the flat the night before.”
JC: “The plan was made to watch the boxing?”
IF: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
JC: “You’ve been into boxing yourself?”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
JC: “Mr Peers was also very much into that sport?”
IF: “That's correct sir yeah.”
JC: “Were the others boxing fans?”
IF: “I think everyone likes Anthony Joshua, he’s a good fighter to watch.
JC: “Was it a big fight?”
IF: “He was fighting Oleksandr Usyk…for the belt. The World Championship belt.”
JC: “In football terms, it was like a cup final?”
IF: “Basically, yeah.”
JC: “Had you been looking forward to it?”
IF: “Yeah.”
JC: “Here we are on the day in question, we see you with Mr Peers. Getting out, exiting the vehicle and going to Go Local. How did it come you were in the same car?”
IF: “On the way over, I called Joe. I said are you coming the flat. Have a few joints, watch the boxing. I picked him up from his mum’s and got dropped off by me little sister.”
JC: “She picked up with you Mr Peers?”
IF: “That’s correct.”
JC: “And dropped you both off at Pilch Lane.”
IF: “That’s correct.”
JC: “Were you talking about anything in particular, can you remember?”
IF: “No, the boxing that night, just normal conversations. We’d just been in the shop to buy a few drinks.”
JC: “Why were you buying drinks?”
IF: “Cos I was gonna be smoking. I would have been stoned, I would have needed a drink as I’m smoking.”
JC: “What were you preparing for?”
IF: “The Anthony Joshua fight.”
JC: “You were buying drinks for the fight?”
IF: “We was just chilling out waiting for the boxing to start. The Smith brothers were fighting that night as well.”
JC: “It might be said you are getting ready to organise the killing of Lee Harrison and if necessary of Ashley Dale. That is the Crown’s case and I have to put it to you.”
IF: “I know it’s the Crown’s case. It’s completely wrong. I’d never see no harm come to me two friends.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[scapa]

Thanks for all the updates, @Legally Bland!\

Not sure what to think. These lads are all hustlers, but the crown isn't doing a brilliant job breaking down their stories. I'm beginning to think it's the trio of Zeisz, Whitham and Barry (and maybe Peers) who were involved in the "planning" and mechanics of this crime.

 

[Legally Bland]

14:15JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Fitzgibbon messages to Witham were 'asking him to bring a polly'​

Mr Cooper rises to resume his questioning.
JC: “We left the situation with Mr Witham and Mr Peers leaving Pilch Lane. I want to ask you about the telephone or messaging you did that night. That’s what we’re focussing on now. At 22.18, we see you on your mobile. Was that at the time your personal mobile?”
Fitzgibbon says: “Yeah that's me personal phone.”
JC: “Did you start using it about July 24, 2022?”
IF: “Yes sir.
JC: “Did you purchase it for the normal reasons for having a phone?”
IF: “Yes, just to speak to me, little sisters, me girlfriend, me family on.”
JC: “The people you contacted since you had it, did it include your family?”
IF: “Yes sir that's correct.”
JC: “Your girlfriend?”
IF: “Yes sir that's correct.”
JC: “Family and friends you hung out with?”
IF: “Yeah.”
JC: “We see, 22.18, you making contact or attempting to make contact with Mr Witham?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yes.”
JC: “Why did you contact him?”
IF: “I text him saying are yous coming back to watch the boxing.”
JC: “What sort of communication was that, a message or did you speak to him?”
IF: “Just a normal SMS text message.”
JC: “What did you say?”
IF: “Are yous coming back to watch the boxing.”
JC: “Why were you interested in whether Mr Witham was coming back to watch the boxing?”
IF: “We’d planned to watch the boxing there. We’d bought alcohol. I thought that's what we were meant to be doing.”
JC: “Did he respond?”
IF: “He replied to me saying yes.”
JC: “Where did you think he was?”
IF: “Where he said he was going, which was Joe’s mum’s.”
JC: “What time did he leave?”
IF: “22.10.”
JC: “Mr Witham to you, is that the response?”
IF: “He replied saying yeah.”
JC: “22.23, you to him?”
IF: “I said to him ‘bring a polly in’. a polly is hash, cannabis resin.”
JC: “These are all text messages are they?”
IF: “SMS, normal text messages yeah. He replied saying ok.”
JC: “During the time you’re messaging him, where are you ?”
IF: “In the flat, 267 Pilch Lane.”
JC: “What are you doing?”
IF: “Sitting there waiting for the boxing to start. It was about to start shortly.”
JC: “23.06, you voice call, one second, to Mr Witham. It probably follows you didn’t make contact?”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
JC: “Why were you attempting to call him?”
IF: “The main fight was about to start. We’d all been waiting for it all day to watch. I was calling him to say the boxings about to start, hurry up. Bring a polly in on your way round.”
He says that Witham’s mum’s house was near to Jeffereys Crescent.

14:26JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Fitzgibbon 'did not speak to Peers or Witham again after boxing ended'​

Mr Cooper reads from the set of agreed facts. He says that in the boxing card involving the Anthony Joshua vs Oleksandr Usyk fight, ring walks for the main event began at 11pm, the first round was 11.15pm, the fight concluded at 12.02am, and the result was announced at 12.09am.
JC: “There’s a passage of communication or attempted communications between you and Witham and Mr Peers around about the time the fight was starting?”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
JC: “23.06, 10 seconds or so after you attempt to contact Mr Witham, there’s an attempted communication to Mr Peers.”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
JC: “Why are you trying to contact Mr Peers?”
IF: “I couldn’t get through to Witham so I tried to contact Joe. I thought they were together.”.
JC: “23.07, you attempted to contact Mr Witham again.”
IF: “The same reason, to say the boxing’s about to start.”
JC: “It may be suggested you’re monitoring them on their mission?”
IF: “That’s untrue. I’m using my personal phone. On hour later, I text my little sister to come and pick me up. It makes no sense. I wouldn’t see no harm come to Lee or Ashley.”
Mr Cooper says there is a message from Fitzgibbon’s phone to James Witham at 23.08.
IF: “When I’ve tried to call him and his phone call forwarded. With his network he receives a text message saying he’s had a missed call.”
JC: “The fight or the lead up to the fight starts at 23.00. There's a call or series of messages shortly after Mr Witham leaves, is he coming to the fight?”
IF: “He said he was going to Joe’s mum’s so I text him saying are yous coming back to watch the boxing.”
JC: “During the early moments of the fight you’re attempting to communicate with them but failed, just as the fight starts?”
IF: “That’s correct.”
JC: “You’re not making contact with them anyway?”
IF: “I’m making contact for them to come back and watch the boxing. What the Crown are saying is untrue. I couldn't get through to them, no.”
JC: Were you organising, monitoring, stewarding, guiding in those calls?”
IF: “No sir I’d never see no harm come to Lee or Ashley. They’re my friends. I’ve been friends with Lee for 10 years, longer than any of them in that flat apart from Sean. I’d never see no harm come to Lee.”
Mr Cooper says at 12.44am CCTV shows him leaving.
JC: “This is you leaving Pilch Lane?
IF: “Yes that’s me leaving, going into the shop before I go home.”
Mr Cooper says Fitzgibbon’s phone is then cell siting in area of his home shortly before 1am.
JC: “Let’s go back to your decision to leave Pilch Lane. Why did you decide to leave?”
IF: “The boxing had finished. My mum lives in St Helens. My sister lives in Sefton Park.”
Fitzgibbon says after the fight he was “Just having a joint. I text our Claudia to leave from my mum’s in St Helens to pick me up.”
JC: “Were you involved in any form of communication with Mr Witham or Mr Peers?”
IF: “No sir.”
JC: “Who was in the flat at that stage?”
IF: “Sean, Niall and Michael Kershaw.”
JC: “Were you aware of anything bad having gone on at all at that stage?”
IF: “No sir, no.”
JC: “You call Claudia on your phone?”
IF: “Yeah.”
JC: “Claudia comes?”
IF: “Yeah, she took a bit longer because she was diverted in traffic on her way from our mum’s.”
JC: “She picks you up. Did you want to wait in any way to see whether Witham and Peers would return?”
IF: “No sir I was only contacting them to watch the boxing. I had no reason to contact them again.”
JC: “After the boxing started, were you bothered to contact them again?”
IF: “No sir. The boxing started. I only contacted them to come and watch the boxing.”
JC: “You lost interest in contacting them?”
IF: “Yeah, I’d been waiting to watch the AJ fight all day.”
JC: “Did you have any reason to wait in the flat to see if Witham or Peers would return and have anything to say?”
IF: “No sir.”
JC: “Were you expecting Witham or Peers to come back?”
IF: “I was expecting them to come back and watch the fight but they didn’t come back. When the boxing started I didn't contact them again.”
JC: “Were you bothered one way or another once the fight started?”
IF: “No sir.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

14:33JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'She was an innocent girl, she didn't deserve that'​

Mr Cooper says: “We see 1.25, Mr Witham and Mr Peers return. When they return, where are you?”
Fitzibbon says: “At home.”
JC: “Were you interested in making contact with them that night?”
IF: “No sir.”
JC: “3.16, we see Mr Peers leaving 267 Pilch Lane. You weren’t there. Then at 4.20, we have Mr Witham leaving Pilch Lane. 10.53, we have Mr Barry and Mr Zeisz leaving 267 Pilch Lane and entering a silver Mercedes. This is the following day I want to deal with now. When you got back home, what did you do?”
IF: “Watched the telly and had a drink until I went down to bed and went asleep.”
JC: “Did anyone come to your home?”
IF: “Next day, yeah.”
JC: “Who was that?”
IF: “Sean Zeisz and Niall Barry.”
JC: “Before they arrived, what time approximately did they arrive?”
IF: “I’d say from 11.30 to 12 o’clock.”
JC: “Before they arrived, had you heard anything about what had happened that night?”
IF: “Claudia phoned me in the morning. She said our friend, Sophie O’Connor, had called her and said Ashhley’s been shot and killed.”
JC: “Can you remember what time that was?”
IF: “It was early, about 10 in the morning. Quarter to 10.”
JC: “What did she say to you?”
IF: “She called me and said Sophie O’Connor, Claudia’s friend, had called her and said Ashley had been shot and killed.”
JC: “Did Claudia say anything else to you?”
IF: “She was just shocked sir
JC: “How did it make you feel?”
IF: “I was shocked meself, it was terrible news. She’s an innocent girl, she didn’t deserve that.”
JC: “Before that, had you had any idea Ms Dale had been hurt?”
IF: “No sir, just woke up and me sister called me and told me that news.”
JC: “Did you say anything to Claudia?”
IF: “I said I can't believe it. I was lost for words. It was terrible news.”
JC: “Did Claudia saying anything else?”
IF: “No sir.”
JC: “What did you do then?”
IF: “I done a joint in me flat. When I get up i smoke. That’s what I do every day
“How are you feeling?”
IF: “I was shocked, I was sad cos Ashley’s me friend. It’s me mate’s girlfriend. I just couldn’t believe it.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

14:46JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'He was in my sister's car, the next day I'm being told he's killed my mate's girlfriend'​

Mr Cooper says: “Mr Zeisz, and Mr Barry visited you, you say between 11.30 and 12 that morning.”
Fitzgibbon: “That’s correct.”
JC: “Were you expecting them?”
IF: “No they just turned up at mine.”
JC: “Did you invite them in?”
IF: “To get into my door there’s a buzzer. They pressed the buzzer, I opened the door and they come in. I said to them first, i said our Claudia’s phoned me. Ashley’s been shot and killed. I was shocked, couldn’t believe it.”
JC: “What was their reaction?”
IF: “They was shocked themself. Sean didn’t say nothing to me. It was Barry. He said you'll never believe it. We’vve been arguing with Witham all night. He turned up and said he’s shot Saz’s house up..”
JC: “Mr Barry says they were arguing with Mr Witham.”
IF: “That's correct sir yeah
JC: “Did they indicate whether Mr Peers was or was not involved?”
IF: “I don’t know who was involved in the argument or who was there to hear the argument
JC: “Did Mr Barry tell you what they'd been arguing with him about?”
IF: “They turned up and James Witham said he’d shot Lee’s house up.”
JC: “This is what Mr Barry’s telling you.”
IF: “That’s correct yeah.”
JC: “Did Mr Barry said Witham had said anything else?”
IF: “No sir, just that’s what I was told.”
JC: “How did you feel when you heard Mr Witham had said he’d shot Harrison’s house up
“A mix of emotions. I was shocked, I was angry, I was scared and Ii felt lied to. He said he was going to Joe’s mum’s, now I'm getting told he’s done this.”
JC: “Why were you shocked.”
IF: “I’d been told Ashley been killed.”
JC: “Why were you angry?”
IF: “I’ve just been told a lad who I’ve had in my sister’s car just shot me mate’s girlfriend.”
JC: “Why were you scared.”
IF: “Because I’d been round him the day before. I’ve had him in me sister’s car.”
JC: “Around who?”
IF: “James Witham.”
JC: “Why were you scared you’d been around James Witham the day before?”
IF: “I've had him in my sister's car. I don't want to get dragged into something I'm not involved in. Lee and all his mates, I don't want him to target me for something I haven't done. I don’t want to fall out with him. I’ve got two little sisters and meself. People are gonna retaliate to what he’s done. People aren’t gonna allow that to happen. I don’t wanna get targeted for being around him. I’d had him in me sister’s car.”
JC: “The fourth thing you said was you felt lied to?”
IF: “When we was in the flat he said he was going to Joe’s mum’s. As far as I was concerned he was coming back to watch the boxing. The next day i’m getting told he’s shot my mate’s house up and Ashley’s dead.”
IF: “Did Mr Barry say anything else.”
JC: “That he’s a , James Witham. he’s saying he’d shot Lee’s house up, when he checked the paper Ashley’s dead. He thinks James has killed Ashley and he’s a .”
JC: “Did Mr Barry say what might be a consequence of this for all of you?
IF: “Not at that point, no sir.”

14:49JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'It was disgusting'​

Mr Cooper says: “What did you do once you’d heard that news?
Fitzgibbon replies: “Went to Jeffereys Crescent and got hash. I was stressed out with the news I'd been told. I needed to smoke.”
JC: “Who went with you to Jeffrey’s Crescent?”
IF: “Sean and Barry.”
JC: “How were they behaving?”
IF: “They were shocked themselves. No one could believe that. We’re meant to watch the boxing in the flat with the lad. The next day, we’re getting told he’s killed my mate’s girlfriend. It was disgusting.”
JC: “Was there any discussion then about who might be knocking on doors. When did that happen?”
IF: “When we went back to my flat on the night of the 21st.”
JC: “Was Mr Barry saying anything else to you at this stage about concerns he may have?”
IF: “No sir.”
JC: “After you’d been to Jeffreys Crescent did you go anywhere else?”
IF: “We went for a walk in Childwall, we met David McCaig. Barry had told David McCaig the same thing he’d told me, he’d been up arguing with Witham all night. Witham said he’d shot Lee’s house up. The same thing what he told me.”
JC: “How long were you there for?”
IF: “About an hour.”
JC: “Did you at any stage turn your phone off?”
IF: “After the walk sir yeah, on me way to Sean’s Mum’s.”
JC: “Why?”
IF: “David McCaig was saying contact Joe and get hold of Witham and lock him in the back of a car and take him to a police station. I just wanted to stay out of it. I didn’t want them ringing my phone and I didn't want to ring them neither.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

14:58JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I knew people were gonna start falling out'​

Mr Cooper asks Fitzgibbon why he felt scared.
IF: “Yeah, I was scared I’d be dragged into something I’m not involved in because I’ve been round him the day before.”
JC: “It’s a booking made on this day, August 21, at 1.28. Who made that booking?
IF: “Me sister. I contacted me sister. I told her to book me a flight.”
JC: “Was this before or after you went to Mr Zeisz’s mother’s?”
IF: “That was before, that was just after Sean and Barry told me what they’d told me?”
JC: “Was this before or after Davo?”
IF: “That was before.”
JC: “Was this before or after Jeffreys Crescent?”
IF: “Before.”
JC: “If you were visited by Zeisz and Barry between 11.30 and 12, this is after that visit?”
IF: “Yes sir that’s correct.”
JC: “It’s certainly not before?”
IF: “No sir.”
JC: “It’s not on the night of the 20th or anything like that?”
IF: “No sir.”
JC: “It’s after Barry and Zeisz have visited you and told you what went on that night?”
IF:“That’s correct sir.”
JC: “Did you ask Claudia to do this?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
JC: “Why?”
IF: “I was just scared, I wanted to get away from the situation. I said to Claudia, Zeisz and Barry have just turned up at my flat. Witham has killed Ashley. Can you book me a flight? I was just scared. I’ve had him in my sister’s car. I knew people were gonna start falling out, people are gonna retaliate over that. I didn’t want to get caught up in nothing for being round him the day before.”
JC: “Who did you think might come knocking on your door”
IF: “No one. Maybe the police. I didn’t think they’d knock on my door. If they didn’t, it’s because I’d been around James Witham the day before.”
JC: “How did you think that might look for you?”
IF: “It looked bad for me. I’m worried about getting called a grass or something happening to my little sisters or me mum. I’d never put their lives in danger by telling the police about that argument.”
JC: “Claudia books this flight for you. Why Dubai?”
IF: “I was always going to Dubai anyway. My sister's birthday was on the 27th. We have friends and family over there. I was always meant to be going on the 23rd. We spoke about this on the prison phone to me father, we asks the CPS but because it’s so long they couldn’t get the recordings for us.”
JC: “After Davo, you’re going to Mr Zeisz’s mother’s address?”
IF: “He went in there for a roast. For his tea, a roast dinner.”
JC: “Did you.”
IF: “No I sat outside in the car. There’s CCTV of me sitting in the back of a car with Barry in the front.”
JC: “Was it your decision to go to Mr Zeisz’s mother’s home?”
IF: “Sean’s, he wanted to go and have his roast.”
JC: “How are you feeling?”
IF: “I was just stressed out. I’d just been told a lad I was round a day before had killed my mate’s girlfriend. Barry wanted Witham to hand himself in. I didn’t want nothing to do with that situation.”
JC: “When did Mr Barry say that?”
IF: “Outside Sean’s mum’s and on the walk.”
JC: “Was this when Sean Zeisz ws in with his mother?”
IF: “That’s correct yeah. He was just saying he’s a , he needs to go and hand himself in. he needs to get hold of him to hand himself in.”
JC: “How are you feeling when Mr Barry was discussion wanting to get him to hand himself in?”
IF: “I didn’t want nothing to do with that situation. I’m not involved, I wanted to stay away from it.”
JC: “What did you do in relation to your phone?”
IF: “I turned my phone off. I didn’t want to call him or him calling me.”
JC: “We see the inactivity of your telephone. Last recorded event 14.52, next recorded event 17.42. Why did you switch it off?”
IF: “I didn’t want to ring Joe or Witham, I didn’t want them calling me either. I didn’t want nothing to do with that situation. I’m not involved.”
JC: “Were you involved in any way with the Hyundai?”
IF: “No sir.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

15:08JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I didn't want to get dragged into Branch's dispute'​

Mr Cooper says: “After you had sat in the back of the car, where did you go next?”
Fitzgibbon replies: “To the flat, 267 Pilch Lane, to see Kershaw. To have a joint with him. That’s what I’d do day to day.”
JC: “Why after you’d heard such traffic news?”
IF: “I didn’t know I was doing anything wrong. If I knew what I knew now. They said they threw him out the flat. I didn’t know the police would ever raid that flat or you’d get into trouble by going to that flat. I said to (Michael Kershaw) what was going on last night. He said he was slobbering about and couldn’t lift his head out his hands.”
JC: “How did all this make you feel?”
IF: “Just shocked, it’s terrible news. It’s mixed emotions to be honest.”
JC: “It may be suggested having heard this, how could you possibly have a joint?”
IF: “Having a joint calms me down, I was stressed. I’m not involved in any of this.”
JC: “After you’d been to Pilch Lane, where did you go?”
IF: “I went to my flat.”
JC: “Who with?”
IF: “Kershaw, Sean and Barry.”
JC: “Why?”
IF: “I didn’t want to stay in that flat for James Witham to try and turn up there. He’s just shot and killed me mate’s girlfriend?”
JC: “Did Mr Barry say anything to you about his concerns.”
IF: “He just didn’t want to stay in that flat for Witham to turn up. None of us wanted to stay in that flat for him to turn up.”
JC: “18.55, is that you?”
IF: “That’s correct.”
JC: “What are you doing?”
IF: “Buying a drink.”
JC: “19.00, what’s happening there?”
IF: “Leaving the flat to get in the car with Sean and go over to mine.”
JC: “You Mr Barry and Mr Kershaw leave the property and enter that Mercedes.”
IF: “Yes that's correct sir.”
JC: “Going to your flat?”
IF: “Yeah.”
JC: “How long did you spend at your flat with them?”
IF: “Two hours, three hours or so.”
JC: “What was said during that time in your flat.”
IF: “Just going on about Witham, we couldn’t believe what he’d done. Saying he was a , we were just calling him to be honest. It were not until Barry started making comments that it feels like he’s gonna get dragged into it because he’s the one who argues with Lee, he’s got a past with Lee.”
JC: “Did he say anything else about that?”
IF: “Anyone who’s ever been in that flat is gonna get a knock on the door.”
JC: “How did you interpret that?”
IF: “I was scared, I was s******* meself. Mind me language.”
JC: “Did Mr Barry say anything more about why he was concerned about his past with Mr Harrison?”
IF: “No sir. I left me own flat. I didn’t want him in me flat. I left me flat myself. I went and stayed in me sister’s. I was scared, I didn’t want to be round him if he felt like he was gonna get dragged into something.”
JC: “Did you stay the night there (at Claudia’s)
IF: “Thats correct sir.”
An amendment was then made to the flight booking at 19.50
Mr Cooper says: “Why was it changed?”
IF: “Me sister had a modelling shoot on the 22nd, the day we was gonna go. She was always coming with me. It was her birthday in Dubai on the 27th. We couldn’t go on the 22nd because she had a modelling shoot. We had to change it to the 23rd.”
JC: “The following day, August 22. Did you see Mr Zeisz’s again or Mr Barry’s again?”
IF: “Yeah they was in me flat the next day.”
JC: “When did you go to your flat?”
IF: “Around 6pm.”
JC; “Why did you go to the flat?”
IF: “I told them to leave, I didn’t want Branch in me flat at that point. I was scared I’d get into trouble. He was scared he was gonna get dragged in because he argues with Lee. I didn’t want him there.”
JC: “Who was there?”
IF: “Sean and Niall. Sean went to his mum’s, I don’t know where Niall went.”
JC: “Did you see them again.”
IF: “No sir.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

15:12JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'I'm still friends with Lee Harrison now'​

Mr Cooper asks: ““Is that you with Claudia?”
Fitzgibbon says: “Yeah that's correct sir.”
JC: “This is Birmingham Airport on the way to catch your flight to Dubai?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
JC: “You flew there on August 23, 2022?”
IF: “That’s correct, yeah that’s correct sir.”
JC: “Why in particular Birmingham?”
IF: “They was the cheapest flights.”
JC: “Why didn't you return to the UK until you were extradited?”
IF: “I was scared. I knew I should have come home and spoke to the police. I was a coward. Alls i can say is sorry about not coming home. I didn't want to tell the police about an argument I heard second hand. I didn’t want to get called a grass. I didn't want nothing to happen to my mum and little sisters.”
JC: “Were you in any way involved in the shooting or killing of Miss Dale?”
IF: “No sir. I’d never see no harm come to Lee or Ashley, they’re my friends.”
JC: “Did you ever have any ill wil for Lee Harrison?”
IF: “I’ve only ever looked out for Lee. He’s still my friend now.”

15:18KEY EVENT

Fitzgibbon denies 'stirring the pot'​

Mr Cooper has no further questions.
Katy Appleton, junior counsel for Niall Barry, rises to cross examine Fitzgibbon.
She says she will asked about voice notes recovered from Ashley Dale’s phone after her death.
KA: “We know of the fallout regarding Mr Harrison and Mr Barry years before. Did you contribute to that fallout?”
Fitzgibbon says: “I told Lee he was getting bumped by Barry, yeah.”
KA: “We have the message sent by Ashley to Sophie.”
The message is shown to the jury: “Lee never took his side and they was best mates, but Branch had been bumping Lee for ages saying he owed so much when he was putting stuff in, the work, so really he owed less and Lee used to answer all the phones so all the running round. So Branch was taking the p*** out of Lee and he found it all out off Ian.”
KA: “Were you stirring the pot? Were you trying to increase the tension?”
IF: “No.”
KA: “Were you also doing that at Glastonbury?”
IF: “No, he shouldn’t have pulled out a knife on me.”
KA: “Mr Barry was not speaking to you, but was speaking to a group.”
IF: “He knows inside he was though.”
KA: “You overheard him saying to others he was going to stab them up, meaning Hillsiders.”
IF: “He knows in his heart that's untrue.”
KA: “He didn’t mention Saz.”
IF: “He did.”
KA: “He didn’t have a knife on him.”
IF: “I know what a knife looks like. He said it to be no one else.”
KA: “You offered Mr Harrison a knife.”
IF: “To protect himself from Barry.”
Ms Appleton refers to another message sent from Ashley to her friend Sophie: “You told Mr Harrison, I’ve got a blade here if he comes near you. I’ve got a blade and all that. The whole city is so fake. It’s unbelievable how fake the city is.”
Fitzgibbon is asked if he offered a knife to Harrison.
IF: “That’s true.”
KA: “What kind of knife did you have?”
IF: “A little flick knife. I know how it feels to get jumped on. I got slashed in the face by a group of lads. Everything he’s saying is lying.”
KA: “You exaggerated everything you said to raise the temperature.”
IF: “I’ve got no reason to lie, your client is lying.”
KA: “You spent time with Mr Barry after Glastonbury.”
IF: “Whatever he’s got going on with the Hillsiders is nothing to do with me.”
Ms Appleton puts his account to him: “He’d threatened your friend, Mr Harrison.”
Fitzgibbon says: “Are you going to keep talking over me?”
IF: “I’m not part of any group or what people have going on. He never done nothing to Lee.”
KA: “You were trying to convince both sides that you were their friend.”
IF: “I am friends with both sides.”
Justice Goose calls for a break and asks the jury to return at 3.25pm.

15:40KEY EVENT

Ian Fitzgibbon is cross examined by prosecution​

Paul Greaney, KC, prosecuting, will now begin his cross examination of Ian Fitzgibbon.
PG: “I will do my level best not to speak over you when you’re giving your evidence. I don’t require you to look at me at any stage, in fact I would prefer you look at the jury.”
IF: “Thank you sir
PG: “I’m going to begin by asking you about the background to the attack on 40 Leinster Road. I probably won’t finish today. Tomorrow I will conclude my questions about my background, then deal with events in August and your departure for Dubai.”
IF: “Ok sir.”
PG: “Let's deal with the background. By summer last year you had known Sean Zeisz for probably more than a decade?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “Throughout that period you had been friends, you became closer after Sean Zeisz started to see your cousin Olivia McDowell?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “Sean Zeisz and Olivia McDowell started living together in about 2017. Does it follow that by 2022, you and Sean Zeisz had been close friends for a period of five years?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yes.”
PG: “By last summer, he was your best friend?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “Mr Fitzgibbon, did you regard yourself as being a loyal friend to Sean Zeisz?”
IF: “Yeah i was his friend yeah, good friends yeah.”
PG: “That wasn’t an answer to my question. Let me rephrase. Did you consider yourself as someone on who Sean Zeisz could rely for support?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “Given your closeness, may I suggest you must have known he was as drug dealer?”
IF: “That’s correct Sir yes.”
PG: “You must have known he was a drug dealer in a significant way?”
IF:“I knew he sold drugs. I never really asked him. That’s his own life.”
PG: “The two of you had this shared occupation?”
IF: “I sold cannabis. Whatever he done, that was his own life. I never shared nothing with him.”
PG: “You knew he dealt not only in cannabis but also cocaine?”
IF: “I didn’t go into detail with him, that’s his own life.”
PG: “Let me confront you with something you said earlier. This is someone you saw every day over the course of years?”
IF: “Just socialising yeah.”
PG: “Every day you were seeing this man?”
IF: “When I say every day, I don’t mean every single day. But I would see him yeah.”
PG: “You saw him most days. He was your best friend. You knew that he was dealing not just in cannabis but also in what are sometimes called hard drugs as well?”
IF: “Yeah. I knew he sold drugs. I’d never go into detail with him with things. That’s his own life. I’d see him literally socialising, just personal stuff.”
PG: “You knew the difference between cannabis and cocaine?”
IF: “Of course yeah, that’s correct.”
PG: “Over the course of a friendship lasting 10 years, you knew he wasn’t just dealing in ounces of cannabis. He was dealing in kilos of cocaine.”
IF: “I didn’t know kilos. I knew he was dealing cocaine>”
PG: “You knew he wasn't street dealing the odd wrap of cocaine, you knew he was dealing in significant quantities.”
IF: “I knew he sold different drugs but not the quantities of drugs.”
PG: “You know what a street dealer is. You knew he was not a street dealer.”
IF: “No I wouldn't say that sir. I wouldn't class him as any big drug dealer or street dealer. He sold a bit of drugs to get by. I didn’t ask him what he got up to.”
PG: “Tell me in your own words over the course of this long friendship, what did you understand his involvement was.”
IF: “He sold drugs to earn a living. I never went into that and said what are you selling or how much do you sell.”
PG: “Did you never speak to him about it?”
IF: “No sir.”
PG: “You yourself were a dealer, you told us only cannabis. Weren't you interested in seeing if he could source cannabis for you at a cheaper rate?”
IF: “No sir, I could get it myself.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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[Legally Bland]

15:46KEY EVENT

Fitzgibbon 'had EncroChat phone in past'​

Mr Greaney says: “In terms of your own dealing, you wish the jury to accept you were a cannabis dealer on a small scale?”
IF: “I wouldn’t class it as small scale, I wouldn't class it as a big scale either. I’d grab a kilo and sell it in ounces. It’s in between.”
PG: “You made a thousand pounds or £1,200 pounds a month?”
IF: “£1,800 off one kilo, if I sold one and a half £2,700.”
PG: “Can I ask you to consider whether the truth is you were involved in drug trafficking on a much bigger scale than you have told us about?”
IF: “That's untrue sir.”
PG: “At any stage, have you been the user of an EncroChat device?”
IF: “When I was a kid yeah.”
PG: “When were you a kid, in your terms?”
IF: “I had one around 2016, 2017 to source cannabis.”
PG: “What was your handle?”
IF: “I can't remember sir, it’s years ago.”
PG: “You were the user of an EncroChat device, the way in which you communicated was by your handle. You’d have to communicate that to people you wanted to speak to. Tell us what your handle was please?”
IF: “I couldn’t remember sir, it’s literally years ago.”
PG: “This drug dealing which made you successful, was it that that enabled you to fund your travel to Dubai and stay there moving back and forwards to Spain for nearly 12 months.”
IF: “In Dubai i had friends and family, I didn't need to pay for anything. In Spain I carried on selling cannabis, that’s how I survived in Spain.”
PG: “You travelled to Dubai?”
IF: “That’s correct.”
PG: “Did you have a nice lifestyle in Dubai?”
IF: “I stayed with friends and family. A few of us went out for my sister’s birthday meal. I didn’t have to pay for nothing.”
PG: “You did move between Spain and Dubai?”
IF: “My girlfriend’s from Spain yeah. I went from Portugal to Spain.”
PG: “In the past had you lived in Spain.”
IF: “I went over and seen me girlfriend in the past yes sir.”
PG: “Did you stay for a prolonged period?”
IF: “Three months.”
PG: “Were you finding that through drug dealing?”
IF; “Yeah I was sir. I stayed with me girlfriend. I used to pay for me food and stuff. 2700 was plenty enough for one month.”
PG: “I’m not saying that isn’t a lot of money. I am saying that isn't’ sufficient to fund the lifestyle.”
IF: “It depends what kind of lifestyle you're trying to insinuate.”
PG: “You told the jury you were shocked and scared when you learned what James Witham had done and that played a part in why you were travelling to Dubai?”
IF: “Yeah.”
PG: “While you were in Dubai, did you remain scared?”
IF: “Yeah I did sir, to be honest.”
PG: “Did you remain shocked by the terrible thing that happened to Ashley?”
IF: “Of course I did, Ashley was my friend. So was Lee.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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[Legally Bland]

16:00JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Fitzgibbon: 'I told Lee Harrison that Niall Barry was adulterating the drugs'​

Mr Greaney says: “Was it through Sean Zeisz that you met Niall Barry?”
Fitzgibbon says: “Through Sean and Lee.”
PG: “You’d known Niall Barry since about 2018.”
IF: “Three four years, yes sir.”
PG: “Am I right about 2018?”
IF: “Yeah, maybe yeah.”
PG: “You knew Sean Zeisz and Niall Barry were good friends.”
IF: “They was good friends, Sean’s never round Barry. It's only since Rikki died Niall’s been back around Sean.”
PG: “Was there a time he popped out of the woodwork?”
IF: “When Rikki died sir, yeah.”
PG: “You did know Niall Barry and Sean Zeisz were involved in a drug dealing enterprise together?”
IF: “No. I knew Sean helped him out now and again and got him drugs, but that’s down to them.”
PG: “Sean Zeisz was your best friend, we know the two men were involved in drug dealing together. I’m asking you to accept the closeness of your friendship, you must have known that.”
IF: “I knew he’d help him out from time to time. I dont go into detail and ask him what him and Barry have got going on with one another.”
PG: “Niall Barry was someone who had been able to access firearms, you knew that too?”
IF: “No, that’s untrue. I know of Barry, but I don’t class the lad as my friend. I’m just civil with him cos it’s Sean’s mate. I wouldn’t class him as my friend.”
PG: “You were unaware of the scale of Sean Zeisz’s drug dealing, that he was involved in an enterprise together with Niall Barry, unaware of Niall Barry’s access to firearms and you can’t recall your EncroChat handle?”
IF: “You’re making it out to sound a lot worse than I said it. I knew Sean would help Barry out from time to time. What Barry gets up to in his own life, I don’t know. I didn't class the lad as my friend. I don’t ask Sean, who is my friend. I worry about my own life.”
PG: “You also knew Lee Harrison.”
IF: “I knew Lee for years and years, he’s my friend.”
PG: “The two of your were close?”
IF: “When we’d see each other yeah, we’re close. We wouldn’t contact each other all the time. When we see each other we’re close.”
PG: “You and Lee Harrison had a friendship that was very close?”
IF: “Yeah.”
PG; “You knew he had worked for Niall Barry?”
IF: “I knew they worked together years ago, I didn’t know he worked for him.”
PG; “You knew the two of them had a fallout in 2018, 2019.”
IF: “That’s correct, yeah.”
PG: “Did you know before this case all started, that the fallout had arisen out of the fact Hillsiders had stolen a significant quantity of drugs from Niall Barry.”
IF: “Yeah that’s correct sir.”
PG: “And Lee Harrison had sided with the Hillsiders.”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
PG: “The Hillsiders were a criminal gang.”
IF; “Yeah, they’d rob people.”
PG: “And also they dealt in drugs?”
IF: “I don’t know that sir. I always knew Hillsiders to rob people.”
PG: “Did you know that Jordan Thompson, Dusty, was a member of the Hillsiders gang?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “In relation to this fallout between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry, Ashley Dale appeared to believe that you had provided information to Lee Harrison?”
IF “That’s correct sir.”
The message is again shown to the jury
PG: “Ashley is speaking on July 3 to her friend Sophie about the ongoing tension between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry, essentially where all the problems started. ‘Lee never took his side, and they was best mates but Branch had been bumping Lee for ages. Branch was taking the piss out of Lee and he found it all out off Ian’. I think we agree the Ian in that message is you?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
PG: “Lee had been doing all the running round as part of their drug dealing arrangement, is that how you read it?”
IF: “Yeah they was partners, but they’d answer the phones and stuff?”
PG: “Branch had been bumping Lee. Screwing him over?”
IF: “Just messing about with the work before he passed it to him, that’s what I heard off people.”
PG: “What did bumping Lee mean?”
IF: “Basically passing him stuff but messing about with the work before he passed it to him. Instead of splitting it down the middle, he’d mess about with the work before passing it to Lee to get more profit.”
PG: “Niall had been adulterating drugs to make more profit.”
IF: “Yeah, just what i heard at that time.”
PG: “He had been taking the piss out of Lee. Did you say all of that to Lee Harrison?”
IF: “Erm, I weren’t saying all that about taking the piss. Lee knew he was doing that himself. I said to Lee I heard he has, just confirming it. They’re not my words.”
PG: “The general thrust of what Ashley was reporting to Sophie was accurate, do you agree?”
IF: “In certain parts in that message, yeah. I told Lee Branch was bumping it, as for the ‘taking the piss’ part them words haven’t come out of my mouth.”
PG: “You had said to Lee, Branch had been bumping him?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
PG: “Where Ashley reports to Sophie that you had told Lee that Branch was bumping him, what Ashley was reporting was accurate?”
IF: “Branch pulled a knife out on me at Glastonbury. that’s also accurate and true.”
PG: “We’re going to come onto the knife. You do accept what Ashley was reporting here was accurate.”
IF: “The bumping part, yeah”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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[Legally Bland]

16:05JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Barry and Harrison 'didn't like each other'​

Mr Greaney says: “Let’s turn back to the relationship between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry. I think you will agree that from that point in time, from the robbery, from the bumping, the relationship between Lee Harrison and Niall Barry came to an end.”
Fitzgibbon says: “Yes sir, it come to an end when the Hillsiders robbed him.”
PG: “Their drug dealing relationship came to an end and also their friendship came to an end.”
IF: “I’d say so yeah.”
PG: “From that point in time there was major beef between Niall Barry and Lee Harrison, do you agree?”
IF “No.”
PG: “Is Niall Barry the kind of person to allow someone to take advantage of him?”
IF: “Like robbing?”
PG: “Just take advantage in any way. I’m gonna turn the other cheek.”
IF: “That’s what he done with Lee yeah. I’m not close to him, you’re asking me questions I can’t answer. What I know of Niall, he’s just Sean’s mate. I wouldn't say he’s this or that. He’s a lad I'd see from time to time with Sean and have a drink with.”
PG: “You’d known Niall Barry since 2018. Help us with your impression of the man. You know what turning the cheek means?”
IF: “No sir.”
PG: “It means when someone does something bad to you, you just accept it and walk away rather than retaliating.”
IF: “He did with Lee, yeah.”
PG: “Do you agree he wasn't the kind of person just to accept someone taking the piss?”
IF: “Can you repeat that question?”
PG: “There are some people who will accept bad people being done to them.”
IF: “You already asked me that. I can’t answer a question how Barry carries himself towards people who are taking the piss. I’d see him socially and have a drink with the lad. You’re asking me questions that don’t make sense.”
PG: “Can we agree from that point in time in 2018 Niall Barry and Lee Harrison were enemies?”
IF: “They didn't like each other, no. They weren't friends.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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[Legally Bland]

16:12JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Fitzgibbon 'able to span both sides of dispute'​

Mr Greaney says: “During this period of time, you were able to span both sides of this dispute?”
Fitzgibbon says: “What does span mean sir?”
PG: “There was a period where you were able to speak to Lee Harrison in a friendly way and speak to Niall Barry in a friendly way?”
IF: “I still do that now.”
PG: “That appeared to continue at Glastonbury. Niall Barry spoke directly to you in order to threaten Lee Harrison didn't he.”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “He was asking you where Lee Harrison was?”
IF: “He said have you seen Saz?”
PG: “He wanted to know whether you knew where Saz was?”
IF: “He said have you seen him. I hadn’t seen him at that point. I wouldn’t have told him anyway. Lee’s my friend.”
PG: “He told you he wanted to stab Saz up and showed you a knife he had in his pocket. I’m going to ask that you look at an image. Can you see that knife with quite an unusual looking blade. Did the knife look like that?”
IF: “Like I said before, I didn't see the handle or nothing. O just seen the little silver part of the sharp end. I couldn’t tell you that was the exact knife. I did know he did have a knife at Glastonbury. I can’t say that is the knife.”
PG: “On Niall Barry doing that at a festival where people were supposed to be having fun, it became obvious there was still beef between Niall Barry and Lee Harrison?”
IF: “Yeah that’s correct sir, otherwise he wouldn’t have said what he said to me.”
PG: “By summer last year, it was obvious to you there was beef between two men.”
IF: “That’s correct. Yous are saying the beef started with Sean being punched in the nose. Niall had already pulled a knife out to me.”
PG: “Do you agree not only was there a beef, bearing in mind Niall Barry had armed himself and was threatening to stab Lee Harrison it was by that stage a major beef between the two of them?”
IF: “They had trouble, yes sir.”
Mr Greaney refers back to Ashley’s messages.
PG: “Ashley reports to your cousin Liv on June 29, shortly after everyone has returned to the festival, ‘I know Branch has been saying madness about Lee. I’ve just thought Branch was talking , but obviously on the weekend they’re in the same fezzy and he’s saying where’s Saz, I'm gonna stab him up to your Ian.”
IF: “I told him.”
PG: “These are the discussions with Sophie on July 3. ‘Branch is out for Lee, there’s been murder again. My nerves are gone over it all. Branch is back on his high horse, dunno where he’s popped back up from’. It also seemed to you Branch had popped back up?”
IF: “Since Rikki died sir, yeah.”
Mr Greaney reads: “He was in Glasto, pulled a big knife out to Ian Fitz and said where’s Saz, he’s getting stabbed up.”
IF: “It was direct from me, she was with Lee when I told him.”
PG: “You told Lee Harrison what Branch had said to you didn’t you?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG: “Did you tell him that Branch had actually shown him a knife?”
IF: “Yes sir.”
PG; “Did you tell him because you had been concerned that Branch might actually do what he had threatened to do?”
IF: “Yes sir.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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[Legally Bland]

16:21KEY EVENT

'I've grassed on them'​

Mr Greaney says: “You became aware of the assault on Sean Zeisz within a short time of it having happened. He still had blood on his face.”
Fitzgibbon says: “I wiped the blood off his nose. He said he’d been punched off Wally. There was loads of rumours going around.”
PG: “Was one rumour Dusty had done it?”
IF: “There was a rumour that a group done him, Dusty was one of them. When I spoke to Sean, he got punched once in the nose by Wally.”
PG: “The threat by Barry was on the Friday night, the assault was on the Saturday night. Your impression was, because you could still see the blood, you had become aware of the assault a short time after it had happened?”
IF: “Yeah.”
PG: “You asked Sean Zeisz what had occurred. He told you that Wally had done it?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
PG: “Wally appears to be someone you knew?”
IF: “On a party level sir, yeah.”
PG: “We asked Sean Zeisz and Niall Barry the identity of Wally and his friend Joker. They were unable to tell us or wouldn’t. you know them. Can you agree they are Hillsiders?”
IF: “Definitely not Hillsiders. You’re completely wrong there.”
PG: “Dusty is an associate of theirs?”
IF: “No.”
PG: “You know who they are. Would you please tell us the real name of Wally.”
IF: “I only know them on a party level, I wouldn’t class them as my proper friends. I never said to them what’s your real name. I’ve only ever been off my head and spoke to them and shouted ‘Wally, Joker, come here lad’.”
PG: “You don't know the names of either Wally or Joker.”
IF: “No sir.”
PG: “Do you agree that after the assault on Sean Zeisz, who ever was responsible, your cousin Olivia and Sean Zeisz became separated. At the time of the assault, Sean Zeisz and Olivia McDowell were together. After the assault they became physically separated?”
IF: “For a couple of hours yeah. Olivia stayed with us and our friends. She went home with Sean.”
PG: “During that time they were not together, Liv spent time with Ashley?”
IF: “Yeah that's correct sir. They was friends.”
PG: “She also spent time with Dusty?”
IF: “Yeah, Dusty was with Ashley and Lee. They was all with Lee. I didn't see the flirting part people were saying.”
PG: “Sean Zeisz was told Dusty had been seen with his arms around Liv?”
IF: “I didn’t see that at all.”
PG: “You did became aware Sean Zeisz was fuming about something that had happened?”
IF: “He was just fuming he’d been smacked by Wally in front of olivia. They sorted it out on the Sunday.”
PG: “He became angry about what he had been told Liv had been up to with Dusty?”
IF: “I think he was angry cos he got punched in the nose off wally. That didn’t help him, no.”
PG: “In the weeks that followed, you became aware Sean Zeisz believed that Olivia was associating with Dusty?”
IF: “That’s true sir, yeah.”
PG: “You became aware that Sean Zeisz was enraged by what Liv was doing with Dusty.”
IF: “He weren't happy that he found out she started to see Dusty when they got out of Glastonbury.”
PG: “There plainly was a time when you spanned both sides of the Harrison Barry dispute.”
IF: “Can you break that down for me, I don't understand what you said.”
PG: “There was a time when you were on friendly terms with Lee Harrison and Niall Barry.”
IF: “Oh yeah.”
PG: “There came a time when that changed.”
IF: “No. That doesn't make sense to me. The only time I've fell out with either of them is today, when I've basically grassed on him, saying he pulled a knife out on me. If that didn’t happen I would still be friends with them. It does baffle me what the prosecution say.”
PG: “If you are baffled, first thing tomorrow I will resolve that for you.”
Mr Greaney says there is an “issue to resolve with the judge”, and that is all the jury will hear today.
Justice Goose asks them to return at 10.30am on Tuesday. Thanks for following our live coverage, we will return with further updates tomorrow.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

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[bobbymkii]

IF: “It does baffle me what the prosecution say.”
PG: “If you are baffled, first thing tomorrow I will resolve that for you.”

If this was an Eastenders episode, that would be our "doof-doof" moment!

Tomorrow could be explosive, especially if Witham takes the stand once Fitz is done! I'm out all day with work but I've just got a nice shiny new phone with a much better data package so I should be able to follow the trial while travelling around East Anglia

 

[dalsglen]

PG: “If you are baffled, first thing tomorrow I will resolve that for you.”

Looking forward to this!

 

[dalsglen]

IF: “It does baffle me what the prosecution say.”
PG: “If you are baffled, first thing tomorrow I will resolve that for you.”

If this was an Eastenders episode, that would be our "doof-doof" moment!

Tomorrow could be explosive, especially if Witham takes the stand once Fitz is done! I'm out all day with work but I've just got a nice shiny new phone with a much better data package so I should be able to follow the trial while travelling around East Anglia

Ha hadn't refreshed my page when I posted.

 

[Alyce]

Thanks for all the updates, @Legally Bland!\

Not sure what to think. These lads are all hustlers, but the crown isn't doing a brilliant job breaking down their stories. I'm beginning to think it's the trio of Zeisz, Whitham and Barry (and maybe Peers) who were involved in the "planning" and mechanics of this crime.

Absolutely this. I think they are not getting to the real reason for this shooting/murder.

 

[bobbymkii]

Absolutely this. I think they are not getting to the real reason for this shooting/murder.

Now that we're onto the fourth defendant cross examination I think I've finally figured out the prosecution's strategy:

1. To prove that all of the defendants (except perhaps for KR) are operating collectively as an OCG, of which NB is the leader and authority figure.
2. That there was a gang rivalry between this OCG and the 'Hillside gang.'
3. That various events (such as the robbery of drugs, the Glasto incident wit SZ, Rikki Warnick's suicide) all snowballed into one to provide a motive to murder Lee Harrison
4. That all defendants share this motive because, as an OCG it is therefore in ALL of their interests.

I think they've failed primarily on point 1. This group doesn't even have a name! The Hillsiders have a name, identity, a hashtag on Tiktok and they perform (awful) rap songs about their gangland activities, loyalty etc etc.

What would we call this group? The Kyle gang? The Pilch Gang? Their supposed leader and mastermind only turned up again a couple of months before the murder after their mate committed sucide. I don't know how improbable it is for a number of people who engage in similar criminal activities to regularly socialise together but not operate a joint criminal enterprise.

They've tried to link all of these events together through this lens, and I'm with @Alyce, I don't think they've succeeded. Each of these individuals has their own agenda and their own relationships with the other protagonists in the case. The real reason for this shooting lies with JW as he pulled the trigger. But there's so much physical evidence against JW they don't seem to have bothered with a motive for him, other than that him and JP acting as footsoldiers for their divine leader, NB.

 

[Legally Bland]

10:50JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Dusty 'blamed for Rikki Warnick's death'​

Paul Greaney, KC, rises to continue cross examining Fitzgibbon.
PG: “Mr Fitzgibbon at the very end of yesterday you confirmed to me that you were baffled by the suggestion made by the prosecution that you had chosen a side by the time of the killing of Ashley?”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
PG: “You added that for you what the prosecution were saying made no sense?”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
PG: “Let me turn to my promise to explain the prosecution case to you. Is it the posistion that you were close to Rikki Warnick?”
IF: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “Would you say you were extremely close?”
IF: “I’d say I was close to him but not extremely close. He’s a close friend like Sean.”
PG: “Should we understand that when Rikki took his own life, that hit you hard?”
IF: “Yeah, that’s correct.”
PG; “Were you listening when Sean Zeisz explained that he believed that Dusty was responsible for Rikki’s death?”
IF: “Yeah I was listening.”
PG: “On the 22nd of July, this is a series of messages on July 22. You can see 10.52 on that morning, less than 24 hours after Rikki’s death, Sean Zeisz said to Niall Barry, Dust had been bullying Rik.”
IF: “I can see that sir.”
PG: “That was something you had heard as well?”
IF: “Not bullying no, he was calling him a grass.”
PG: “In your community, to be called a grass is not a good thing?”
IF: “Of course not sir, no. that’s not why Rikki killed himself though.”
PG: “Did you hear that in the period before Rikki walked in front of that train that Dusty had been calling him a grass?”
IF: “Yeah but there's numerous factors why Rikki walked in front of that train. It's not that sir.”
PG: “Sean Zeisz said he believed that dusty was responsible for Rikki’s death, Sean Zeisz said that everyone believed the same thing. Are you saying that was never your belief?”
IF: “Course I am.”
PG:“Before Rikki’s death, Dusty had been saying things about Rikki that Rikki would have found upsetting?”
IF: “Yeah, that’s correct.”
PG; “He’d been posting them on social media?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
PG: “Dusty was a prominent member of the Hillsiders, wasn't he?”
IF: “He was off Hillside, yeah.”
PG: “Lee Harrison was an associate of the Hillsiders?”
IF: “He was friends with them, just like I’m friends with them too.”
PG: “You knew Lee Harrison was a friend of Dusty?”
IF: “Lee Harrison was a friend of Dusty, me, Rikki, Sean, we’re all friends.”
PG:“After Glastonbury, Sean Zeisz’s partner Liv, your cousin, had started to associate with Dusty. Rikki had killed himself and there was a belief Dusty had played a part. From that point in time, you moved firmly onto the Branch and Zest side of the dispute.”
IF: “No you couldn't be no further from the truth. It baffles me what you’re saying. you ‘ve got it completely wrong. These are assumptions from you.”
PG: “Well it is not assumptions, It’s logic and it's also what Ashley was suggesting. We’re going to listen to what Ashley’s take was on which side of the divide you were on. We’re going to play two voice notes sent by Ashley to Sophie two and a half weeks before Ashley’s death."

11:01JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

Rikki 'killed himself for multiple reasons'​

There is a temporary technical issue, so Mr Greaney reads from a transcript of the voice notes, sent on the afternoon of August 2: “But, I can’t believe Dusty went and done that, like, obviously after what everyone was saying, like obviously they were blaming Dusty and that which, you can’t blame someone for like someone doing that to themselves. Obviously, that was obviously something that contributed to it, what happened on Instagram. But like, everyone played their part in like what’s happened with Rikki, like it’s nobody's fault like, you know you don’t [sighs] it…it’s like, you know.”
Mr Greaney says: “Ashley was referring to something Dusty had done and she referred as well to everyone blaming Dusty for what had happened?”
Fitzgibbon replies: “That’s Ashley’s view sir. I can tell you numerous things why Rikki Warnick killed himself. He was still in love with his girlfriend who left him years before. He was taking drugs every day. He threw himself in front of a train for all those reasons.”
PG: “Suicide sadly also has multiple causes, I acknowledge there may be other things that may make a contribution. You thought it had nothing to do with Rikki’s decision to take his own life?”
IF: “Not at all sir, Rikki would not let anyone bully him.”
PG: “You are saying you thought something different?”
Mr Cooper, representing Fitzgibbon, interjects: “It’s not everybody else, it’s just two names. It’s not everyone else.”
Mr Greaney says: “Everyone was saying they were blaming Dusty. Sean Zeisz said he believed everyone was to blame.”
IF: “If you were to ask Rikki’s mum, she’d tell you no it’s not."
PG: “You believed it played a part?"
IF: “No I don’t believe it played a part."
PG: “The reason why you are denying it played a part is because you know it will join the dots and explain why you joined a side.”
IF: “There’s no dots. Yous are not making sense. Dusty's my friend too.”

11:05JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'It's unbelievable how fake the city is'​

The technical issue is fixed and the audio of Ashley’s voice note is played to the courtroom. PG: “We’re going next to listen to the voice note Ashley sent to Sophie a short time after that one.”
The voice note is played to the jury:
AD: “That’s what I’m saying like, that’s what I said to Lee, like yeah maybe like just go and stand outside the crem, like nothing’s gonna happen there. And then just go home and like obviously whoever there’s all murder happening with, like your like mates and whatever like, yous just go and do your own little separate thing for Rikki yourselves. Go and have your own little bevvy, like you haven't gotta be there with everyone. Like, just go and do you know what I mean, do ya, do your own little thing. Because, like, I just think it’s gonna, there’s gonna be murder but, like you’re right, I don’t think Liv should go. I don’t think Nancy would want her there either, obviously after everything that’s happened outside hers, like, over her and whatever. But, I can’t believe Dusty when an done that, like, obviously after what everyone was saying, like obviously they were blaming Dusty and that which, you can’t blame someone for like someone doing that to themselves. Obviously, that was obviously something that contributed to it, what happened on instagram. But like, everyone played their part in like what’s happened with rikki, like it’s nobodies fault like, you know you don’t [sighs] it…it’s like, you know,
“So, like, it’s heavy and like, I hope people that think, cause he was with someone else. But like Lee’s, Lee’s saying it weren’t him, Lee was like as if I’d do that. But I hope that people don’t think its Lee, because Lee’s f****** close thing to Dusty, and I’m just thinking I hope people don’t think it was you. Because obviously Branch and all, just all that like, cause Branch weren’t there it was only Zest and Ian. Then like, Lee speaks to Ian. But, f******, [sighs] I just don’t even know. But then now Ian’s out with Branch. But then in glasto was saying to Lee, yeah Branch said he’s gonna stab you up. I’ve got a blade here, if he comes near you, we, I’ve got a blade and all that. Like the whole city is just so fake, Soph, it’s like, it’s just unbelievable how fake the city is.”
Mr Greaney says: “Ashley says ‘I just don’t even know. Now Ian is out with Branch’. Now Ian is out with Branch. What Ashley was saying was you had chosen your side by this stage, August 2, and the side you had chosen was Branch’s side.”
Fitzgibbon says: “That’s untrue. Just because her boyfriend doesnt get along with Niall Barry that means people who speak to people have to choose sides. I’ve got no problems with no one. Just because I went to Rikki’s funeral with Sean’s friend. Ashley’s boyfriend doesn’t get along with Niall. They’re not happy that people speak to Niall, but it’s alright if people speak to Lee.”
PG: ““You chose your side.”
IF: “I’m not on no side. I’m in the middle and I speak to everybody.”
PG: “You support Sean Zeisz in his aggression to Liv even though she was your cousin?”
IF: “That’s untrue.”
PG: “You started to associate strongly with the crew at Pilch lane?”
IF: “I’d go down and have a spliff.”
PG: “And you leant your assistance to the attack on 40 Leinster Road.”
IF: “You could not be no further from the truth. I would not see no harm come to Lee- or Ashley. I’d go down and have a spliff.”

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Legally Bland]

11:14KEY EVENT

'You had well and truly chosen your side'​

Mr Greaney says: “This is Ashley on July 30 reporting something that Sean Zeisz had done to Liv. Lydia said that’s heavy, that’s not what Rikki would want. Everyone having murder in his funeral. Is Zest proper fuming at Dusty. You see Ashley’s reply. ‘He’s took all Liv’s clothes and put her tyres down outside Dusty’s the night Rikki died. She’s reporting Sean Zeisz had taken all Liv’s clothes and had the tyres put down on her car on the night of the death of Rikki.”
Fitzgibbon says: “I don’t agree with him getting the tyres put down but you don’t know how Liv and Zest are. They're both as bad as each other.”
Mr Greaney says: “It’s not true they’re as bad as each other.”
He reminds Fitzgibbon of Zeisz threatening to “chop her t*** off” in a message.
IF: “He shouldn't be saying those things. He wouldn't dream of doing that. How would you know. She’s my cousin. I’m explaining to yous what their relationship was.”
PG: “It was highly controlling, coercive, she was constantly trying to calm him down. She was not as bad as him.”
IF: “Livia was very controlling. Olivia was accusing Sean of flirting with my gilfriend. She was just as bad.”
PG: “That’s just as bad?”
IF: “He shouldn't be saying them things. It’s my cousin.”
PG: “We can see those events unfolding in real time in messages between Sean Zeisz and Niall Barry. This is 22nd of July. This is when people start to become aware Rikki has died. Sean Zeisz starts to report it to Niall Barry. We can see there is Sean Zeisz asking Niall Barry to cause damage to Liv’s car on Dusty’s drive. There's the reference to bullying Rik. ‘And then found out me bird sleeping in Dusty’s. Jaime stabbed all the tyres before for me’. We’ve seen Ashley reporting Sean Zeisz had caused the tyres on Liv’s car to be let down. “There we can see.”
IF: “That message is between Sean and Niall Barry. You’re asking me questions about what they’re saying between each other.”
PG: “We can see Sean Zeisz is commissioning the very thing Ashley reported. It carries on. Can you see at 10.57 there’s a voicemail from Sean Zeisz to Niall Barry. We’re going to listen to it. What I’m going to ask you to listen out for is Sean Zeisz saying ‘Ian and that has just booted the door off.”
IF: “I’ve already listened to it and it’s untrue. Play it.”
Mr Greaney plays the voice note between Zeisz and Barry.
“Lad do me a favour yeah, Davo’s going to me flat now. Ian and that just booted the door off. Go with Davo now bro and fill all the bags he’s got with everything out the flat, all the clothes, handbags, me telly’s, take it all please bro for me lad, someone’s just really had to grab it all f***** keep it all safe and take it to me ma’s, me ma’s waitin there now. Go with Davo now bro, get him to grab you live an keys bro.”
PG: “Ian and that has just booted the door off’. The Ian is you. You and others have put the door of her flat in and were assisting in Liv’s stuff being taken. You had well and truly chosen your side.”
IF: “That’s so untrue. I don’t know why Sean’s mentioning my name. David McCaig kicked the door off and took the furniture in a van he was in.”
PG: “You had nothing to do with that at all?”
IF: “He’s said a few things that are untrue what he’s saying.”

11:30JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'Dusty shouldn't have done that outside Rikki's'​

Mr Greaney says: “Do you remember there was a balloon release on the night of July 30.?”
Fitzgibbon says: “Yes sir.”
PG: “Was that to commemorate the life of Rikki Warnick. Did you go to that?”
IF: “That’s correct sir, yeah.”
PG: “That night there was, as A reports it, a firearms discharge. Ashley refers to it a number of times. She says it’s heavy. Lees saying it weren't him. It seems Ashley is referring to a rumour someone was with Dusty and Lee had been denying it. She goes on to say because Branch and all that, cos Branch weren't there. It was only Zest and Ian. Do you see that?”
IF: “Of course.”
PG: “She’s reporting, in context, that at the firearms discharge you had been there. There being the home of Rikki’s mum. You’d been there with Zest. On August 6, Ashley reported what she had been told by Dusty himself about this.”
The voice note is played to the court
AD: “Erm f******, like, that was all over because obviously like wally and that, like don’t like Branch and whatever. But like, even after that happened in, in, in Glasto, Lee was with Liv and Zest after it. And like, that weren’t even anything to do with lee. Like, obviously Lee hates Branch, but like, Lee was just, l…lee ju..Lee just tres his best to stay out of it all. Do you know what I mean. Because like, he can’t be arsed, f******, erm, can’t be arsed with murder.
Like, the thing with lee is, like obviously we…we’ve had to proper like speak abut it..It all this week properly. Because like, like I’ve had to say to him like, you need to just be honest about everything like. You need to tell me everything. Because I don’t normally wanna know, but like, you’ve half gotta prepare me for the worst, like, I need to know like what could happen. Do you know what I mean. I said like don’t sugar coat a…any of this situation with Branch to me and that, cause like he needed to be honest with me and whatever. But like, I know that like, like Lee doesn’t want this. Like Lee said to me if Branch come to me and said let’s squash it, he went I would squash it. He said I don’t wanna have murder with him. He went, I don’t want all this t be happening with him. He said because, he’s not worth this, he said, he’s not worth me…me…me ending up f****** in jail or or wh…wherever like worse. He said, he’s not worth it. He said, I do not want this to be happening, this murder, do you know what I mean.
So like obviously, lee’s obviously always spoke to Zest, even though he knew he was mates with Branch. So after that happened in glasto, everyone, lee lost everyone because he stayed with Liv cause Liv was f****** in hysterics crying on the floor. He went, come and got me, because I just f****** kept l…leaving lee in glasto, cause he was just following everyone, he was doing me head in. So, I was just doing me own thing. And f****** ,he’s come and got me from like by the bar, in the erm in in the gas tower. And like, f******, been like come and you need to come and sort liv out and that. And I didn’t even know what had happened. Someone, someone said to me, like I think it was Beth and Kayla and that, cause I think I was speaking to them at the bar, I'm sure it was her mate or something said. I’m sure livs fellas just been smacked there you know. And I was just like, f*** off really, I was like nahhhhh, so no. I…I was like, but c..Cause I didn’t see that, I like I didn’t think that he had, do you know what I mean. And then lee’s ran over and been like, f****** come over here like, liv’s f****** crying and that. So I’ve went over, and then five minutes later zest popped up with a f****** fire extinguisher in his arms. And the, and then Ian’s popped up from nowhere. And like lee was with them, do you know what I mean. So like, this is not, that weren’t even anything to do with lee then, do you know what I mean. Like lee was still f******. Lee said to wally before it happened, nah lad don’t, he’s with his bird and that, just just leave it like, don’t be smacking him here and that, just wait til your home and like, like do you know what I mean. And then wally was like, oh , do you reckon and then still ending up smacking him, do you know what I mean. Like lee half tried to like, like keep the peace, do you know what I mean.
But, that’s got nothing really, dusty just got himself involved for no reason, do you know what I mean. But, dusty, obviously and zest, seen each other in…in…in glasto after it happened and nothing happened. And, but then obviously, liv got seen walking with dusty the next day, and then obviously that’s why zest legged her. So, at this point, if liv wouldn’t have went and legged urmm sean and went and seen dusty, this murder wouldn’t have happened. It might of if they seen each other out, like something might have happened or if dusty seen zest out, like something might have happened. But the likelihood is he wouldn’t probably see zest out because like, he, you don’t really see him out. Do you know what I mean.
So, by liv going and seeing dusty, has brought all this on. And that is why dusty’s went over and done that. Not over liv, like obviously yeah, cause he’s hating on zest. But he half has went and done it because of what’s all been brought onthat week. So, like, I….It half is, not I’m not saying it’s her fault and it’s over her. But, like, if
She wouldn’t have went and seen dusty that, all that wouldn’t have happened, do you know what I mean.
The Branch situation with lee is a totally different story. The fact that liv has went and seen dusty, has half aggravated the branch situation now. Because she obviously was with zest, and she’s obviously my mate and speaks to lee and obviously Lee speaks to like zest and whatever. So that half kept the peace a little bit with the Branch situation and that’s why nothing really happened. And now liv’s not with Zest, hes like well f*** her and f*** anything that she cared about. And now obviously, cause lee’s mates with dusty, zest’s obviously thinking well f*** lee. So now branch is on his high horse and now lee’s got dragged back into it, do you know what I mean. But if she wouldn’t have split up with zest, and went and seen dusty, I don’t reckon any of this would have happened. And I don’t reckon lee would have had that further murder with branch on the phone either the other day.
But, like branch wouldn’t have been f******* saying he was coming down the estate and all that, if liv hadn’t done this, because that’s just aggravated everything. And, she she she even said that to me herself, the night when it all happened, she said this is all my fault because like I was the peace maker basically, and now I’m dragging you and lee into it all.
PG: “That was on August 6, just over two weeks before Ashley was killed. We can see Dusty having done something is referred to. Ashley gives her take on what was happening. The fact Liv has went and seen Dusty has half aggravated the Branch situation. That half kept the peace a little bit with the Branch situation. Now Liv’s not with Zest, he’s like f*** her and f*** anything she cared about.”
Another voice note from earlier in the day is played
“Dusty shouldn't have done that outside Rikkis. Someone rang him and said zests in Rikkis. People were saying he was with someone, but he wasn’t. He wasn't with anyone. He was on his own. He’s actually said this to me himself. He’d gone over to rikki’s. He probably was gonna do something if he seen zest. It’s bad like, he shouldn't have done it. He’s totally in the wrong. He said he seen (redacted) and went over to them on a bike and let that thing off and said tell Zest that’s for him. After he’s done it, he’s went back over to the estate. Lee ‘s head was gone when he come in here that night. Lee’s rang me and said i’m coming home, i’m never coming up here again. I was just like, it’s f****** heavy."

11:33KEY EVENT

'Did you believe Harrison was with Dusty when that firearm was shown?'​

Mr Greaney says: “On July 22, damage to Liv’s car. Her door put in and Sean Zeisz reporting that you were involved in the door going in. Now it’s eight days later, the balloon release. Ashley is reporting having been told by Dusty he had discharged a firearm, saying tell zest that’s for him, near to the home of Rikki Warnick’s mother. Ashley was reporting you had been there with Zest. Were you there when that happened?”
Fitzgibbon says: “I was in Rikki’s mum’s with a lot of people that day, yeah. I’d been there every day since he died.”
PG: “Were you there with Sean Zeisz?”
IF: “Yeah and many other people, all our mates.”
PG: “Did you become aware a firearm had been discharged in the area?”
IF: “There was rumours. One of our friends went to get a Mcdonalds. He said Dusty jumped off a bike with something and said tell Zest that’s for him. There wasn't a discharge of a firearm.”
PG: “That day when you were there at Rikki Warnick’s family home with zest and others someone reported Dusty had jumped out with something ?”
IF: “Never reported to me, he just came into the back garden at Rikki’s mum’s where we were sitting and told everyone. Everyone become aware of that.”
PG: “Dusty doing something like that on such a significant day marked a significant increase in the temperature of the dispute.”
IF: “No, Dusty and Sean were arguing over me cousin Olivia. There was no dispute.”
PG: “Was there a belief Lee Harrison had also been involved in that incident?”
IF: “No, he would never go over to Rikki’s and do something like that. He’s a lovely lad and he was friends with Rikki and all of us.”

11:37JONATHAN HUMPHRIES

'Ashley's state of fear'​

Mr Greaney says: “The funeral and wake took place on August 10. You went didn't you?”
Fitzgibbon says: “Yes sir I did.”
PG: “We can see you there amongst a group that contains Niall Barry, James Witham, Joseph Peers and others don’t we?”
IF: “That’s correct sir yeah.”
PG: “Including Michael Kershaw and David McCaig, regular attendees at 267 Pilch Lane.”
IF: “That’s correct sir.”
PG: “That’s a photograph of you with those with whom you had sided?”
IF; “That untrue, I’m not on no side. I speak to everybody. Lee has been my friend longer than anyone on that picture there.”
Mr Greaney says Ashley also attended the wake, but Fitzgibbon says he did not see her there.
The court is then shown messages between Ashley and Lois, who reports that “Branch is here”.
A: “Urgh f*** off mate. Lee was like I might just come down. But I don’t want him to. “
L: “No, tell him not to Ash. What’s it worth, yeno what i mean. It’s heavy.”
A: “This is what am saying. He’s had a few drinks now tho.”
L: “Tell him girl.”
A: “And is like.”
L: “Oh has he. So he wants to come.”
A: “Not thinking straight headed if you get me. Like he was sober before.”
L: “Yeah girl. Have you told him?”
A: “Yeah just told him then, he’s like who would Rikki rather have there. I was like I know that. Will you come outside and get me please girl. Like in one minute. Lee saying don’t go in on me own just in case. Am pulling up outside now.”
L: “Am right here xx. At front. I haven’t seen him me girl.”
PG: “Lee Harrison and Ashley were both also friends of Rikki weren't they?”
IF: “Yes sir, that's correct.”
PG: “You didn't see Lee Harrison at the wake.”
IF: “I seen him at the actual funeral part, but not at the after event at Ten Streets Social.”
PG: “You can see with these messages, you can see that Ashley’s state of fear was such that Lee had been saying don’t go in on me own just in case. She actually wanted an escort inside”
IF: “I can see her messaging her friend Lois.”
PG: “You knew by August 10 the situation between Niall Barry and Lee Harrison was such that it had generated this level of fear.”
IF: “No sir”
The court will now take a break, resuming at 12pm.

Ashley Dale murder trial as it happens

The 28-year-old was shot dead at her home on Leinster Road in Old Swan

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk