GUILTY UK - Brianna Ghey, 16, murdered in Culcheth Linear Park, Feb 2023 *2 teenagers charged*

[Dotta]

I can't believe that if these 2 are guilty, they could have just thrown away their own phones as well as Brianna's and disposed of the knife and claimed they went off for a walk alone and came back and found her dead. They could have said the blood came from them touching her body. I think without the texts and knife, their involvement would be a lot more difficult to evidence (if guilty).

Also, the 28 (I think it was) stab wounds seems to have been brushed over. I mean this would have taken a huge amount of physical energy and god knows the psychology behind it. If these 2 are guilty and had planned to kill someone potentially for the first time, I would have expected one or two stabs and then them to run away before they were caught. I don't feel the ferocity of this attack has really been addressed. JMO

Re the ferocity of attack

I guess that whoever did it, wanted to be 100% sure the victim was dead.

As I wrote earlier, the perp/s must have been in a frenzy
Such a state of mind gives extra physical strength.

JMO

 

[Detective_Popcorn]

I honestly doubt the wrong clothes were examined.
It might mean making idiots of Police officers.
Really!
Shaking my head
JMO

Even if police took the wrong clothes when she was arrested, surely it follows that none of her other clothes had any (visible) blood on them either? We know they obviously searched her room, and bagged other evidence like the note. Any clothes with obvious bloodstains would surely be taken?!

Surely?!

 

[Mirabel091]

Unless they had already been disposed of but in that case surely clothes would be found to be missing.

 

[bbsaz]

Most teenagers have a floordrobe so easy to not keep on top of your kids clothes. She also had over 24hrs to wash or bin the clothes she wore that day

 

[Dotta]

Most teenagers have a floordrobe so easy to not keep on top of your kids clothes. She also had over 24hrs to wash or bin the clothes she wore that day

I don't think it is possible to wash out blood completely.

JMO

 

[Detective_Popcorn]

Most teenagers have a floordrobe so easy to not keep on top of your kids clothes. She also had over 24hrs to wash or bin the clothes she wore that day

Boy Y had the same opportunity to get rid of his bloody clothes, but didn't.

The striking thing is how little effort either of them made to get rid of any evidence - the bloody knife in Boy Y's room, the note with the murder plan in Girl X's room, all the chats about killing Brianna both of them left on their phones etc. I don't see Girl X binning her clothes.

 

[Alyce]

09:55Olivia Williams

Day 16 - Monday, December 18​

Good morning from Manchester Crown Court.
The trial is listed to resume at 10am. Just to remind you of the various counsel in the case.
Deanna Heer KC prosecutes, assisted by Cheryl Mottram.
Girl X is defended by Richard Pratt KC, with Sarah Holt as his junior.
Richard Littler KC and Steven Swift appear for Boy Y.
Mrs Justice Yip is presiding over the trial

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Alyce]

10:07Olivia Williams

Closing speeches to begin​

The jury are brought in and Ms Heer will deliver her closing speech for the prosecution.

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

 

[Mirabel091]

IMO Ms Heer is doing a great job of picking through the facts and inconsistencies.

 

[katydid23]

I think Girl X is cut and dried. The jury might take some time wrangling over Boy Y though (imo)

The problem Boy Y has is that he brought his knife, and he knew that his friend's plan was to stab their chosen victim. And even knowing that, he agreed to bring the knife and admitted handing it over to the accomplice.

And he ended up with blood on his clothing and was seen by witnesses, as he stood over the body, with his accomplice.

Also, I'm surprised more hasn't been made of the potential that Girl Xs clothes had no blood on because they've forensically analysed the wrong clothes.... I find that very odd and a crucial part of the case

I don't think it matters that much whether there was blood on her clothes or not, IMO. She sent all those incriminating texts, planning and discussing the chosen victim, etc. And she asked her accomplice to bring a knife.

She happily met the victim at the bus and walked her into the park, setting up the imminent crime. I don't think it matters what happened after that----who did or didn't use the knife doesn't seem that important. JMO

 

[bbsaz]

The problem Boy Y has is that he brought his knife, and he knew that his friend's plan was to stab their chosen victim. And even knowing that, he agreed to bring the knife and admitted handing it over to the accomplice.

And he ended up with blood on his clothing and was seen by witnesses, as he stood over the body, with his accomplice.


I don't think it matters that much whether there was blood on her clothes or not, IMO. She sent all those incriminating texts, planning and discussing the chosen victim, etc. And she asked her accomplice to bring a knife.

She happily met the victim at the bus and walked her into the park, setting up the imminent crime. I don't think it matters what happened after that----who did or didn't use the knife doesn't seem that important. JMO

I think you are right.

My sticking point (& potentially the jurys) is that his testimony is somewhat compelling, but the hard evidence goes completely the other way. Therefore, the jury could wrangle if they've concerns about putting someone away for murder who may not genuinely have done anything sinister. His explanations are mostly plausible, imo. I think a decision "beyond reasonable doubt" could be harder to reach with him.

I don't think the jury will struggle over the girl though (imo). I think that decision is straightforward.

 

[Alyce]

“You may think his ability to understand the information he was being presented with really depends on what suits his purpose.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/live-court-updates-two-teenagers-2818096

4

 

[Dotta]

His explanations are mostly plausible, imo. I think a decision "beyond reasonable doubt" could be harder to reach with him.

I don't think the jury will struggle over the girl though (imo). I think that decision is straightforward.

He was covered in victim's blood.
His bloodied knife was found in his house.
His hands were cut.
He referred to the victim as "it"

IMO he was playing the Police, lawyers and the Jury.
Treated them as fools.
Allegedly.

My opinion only

 

[katydid23]

​

Brianna Ghey murder trial live updates as Girl X gives evidence

The 16-year-old transgender schoolgirl was fatally stabbed in a park and two teenagers are charged with her murder

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

​

​

Defence begins speech for Girl X​

The jury are brought back in and Mr Pratt begins his address.


....Snipped bm.....

“Girl X does not have to prove that it was Boy Y who wielded the knife to kill Brianna, although it is a fundamental feature of her defence that he did. The prosecution must prove that she participated in the murder in one of two ways. You must be sure that either she stabbed Brianna or that she caused, helped or encouraged the defendant to inflict the fatal stab wounds and had the relevant intention at the time.
....snipped BM....

We submit to you that you will inevitably conclude that it was Boy Y who stabbed and killed Brianna to death or at the very least, you will not be able to say for sure that Girl X did so.”



OK, but Pratt first said that even if she didn't stab Brianna, she could still have " helped or encouraged the defendant to inflict the fatal stab wounds and had the relevant intention at the time."
And if so, that is a big problem for girl x legally. And it does seem pretty obvious there was encouragement and help. IMO

 

[Honeybirdette]

“You may think his ability to understand the information he was being presented with really depends on what suits his purpose.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/live-court-updates-two-teenagers-2818096

4

100000%

I think you are right.

My sticking point (& potentially the jurys) is that his testimony is somewhat compelling, but the hard evidence goes completely the other way. Therefore, the jury could wrangle if they've concerns about putting someone away for murder who may not genuinely have done anything sinister. His explanations are mostly plausible, imo. I think a decision "beyond reasonable doubt" could be harder to reach with him.

I don't think the jury will struggle over the girl though (imo). I think that decision is straightforward.

I don’t believe his testimony is credible in any way. In fact, I think if anything it’s going to be girl x the jury might get hung up on. Only because there is no forensics against her at all and some of the jury could believe she only said it as fantasy (like the other two people she imaginary murdered)

 

[Mirabel091]

Yes, well, when you actively take steps to make your fantasy come true, one might be forgiven for thinking it is no longer a fantasy.

 

[bobbymkii]

I wonder if she thought she'd have to have actually physically stabbed BG in order to be charged with her murder and if she got caught would have only faced some sort of lesser 'aiding and abetting' or 'soliciting' type charge. And if convicted would only be looking at a few years inside max, probably getting released before she's even required to be moved to adult prison.

And then it was only once she was arrested and received proper legal advice she has realised just how much trouble she is in.

 

[Honeybirdette]

I wonder if she thought she'd have to have actually physically stabbed BG in order to be charged with her murder and if she got caught would have only faced some sort of lesser 'aiding and abetting' or 'soliciting' type charge. And if convicted would only be looking at a few years inside max, probably getting released before she's even required to be moved to adult prison.

And then it was only once she was arrested and received proper legal advice she has realised just how much trouble she is in.

I agree. Either that or when it came down to it, she panicked and let boy y finish the job so to speak.
I still think back to boy y saying something along the lines of, “I don’t know how they’ll find out who it is if there are no witnesses?”
I mean wtf. It’s like he’s sort of Intelligent but also dumb af at the same time. Truly bizarre

 

[bbsaz]

I agree. Either that or when it came down to it, she panicked and let boy y finish the job so to speak.
I still think back to boy y saying something along the lines of, “I don’t know how they’ll find out who it is if there are no witnesses?”
I mean wtf. It’s like he’s sort of Intelligent but also dumb af at the same time. Truly bizarre

When did he say this? Was it before or after the murder?

 

[Alyce]

You cannot conclude with certainty that Girl X had that phone in her hand and sent that message. What an incredible piece of foresight it would be. I’ll just pause and send a message. Really? This couple who didn’t even plan their escape route. She has the presence of mind to come up with something like that.

I disagree with Richard Pratt on this point.
For someone Xs age, this is exactly what she would do - reach for her phone ( she lives on it, as do most of her generation ) and send a cover up message. It would be second nature to her.

But serious planning of what to do, post murder. No. She's not smart enough.