UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #10

[Popejohn3]

Persumably they are not held on the National DNA database?

Was this the Cold Case team you spoke to PJ?
If it was did you ask them if they had run the unidentified male print found in CL's home through police DNA fingerprint records..
Given the speculation that CL had an expoliceman boyfriend they would have good reason to check.

No it was not cold case they’ve got enough on their plates I’m sure .
I have full faith in the cold case people to do the right things .

 

[cortina]

I hope they did run the unidentified prints through their records...theres also the cigarette stub found in her car...I dont know if they could. get prints off that but, if so, I hope they checked it against their database and against those found in the house...ive always assumed they did.

it might be interesting to look at policemen requesting transfers around and not too long after the date of Claudius disappearance...again, I hope they have.

if there was a policeman on the scene who wasn't bent and. he was in her house that night, I dont know how he kept functioning

 

[AcbMurders]

This sounds more and more like the next series of Line of Duty - bent coppers and all that...

 

[ArcadeFire]

I don’t know about all this drug stuff and Claudia and JK partner, I mean look at him, surely not?!?

check this link out specifically the comment by Penelope pitstop...

 

[Popejohn3]

I was listening to true crime podcast but not from the link posted here a little while ago :
In the podcast the narrator says that the witness noticed that the man ( arguing with the woman close the the uni) was 5’6” and he was talking to this woman who was shorter than him .Now we know that CL was5’6” herself!!
In the same podcast it is also said that the man’s description resembled Chris Halliwell yet Chris is 5’11” !!!

 

[Yozzer]

For anyone who is interested in the Lime Court videos and the possibility that the unknown male may have entered Heworth Place rather than the alley, the follow piece covers both possibilities:

CL /Reddit

 

[cortina]

the reddit piece is very interesting, but I feel it falls short in the sense that it only considers the man may have been carrying the bag for the following reasons....he had been somewhere where he needed what was in the bag...work, gym etc...or he was planning to stay with claudia....it could have been for those reasons, of course, but it could have been for another reas0n...its true he didn't go right up t0 Claudius door, but she may have said she would leave something in a bag, for example, further down...I mean nearer the entrance.....this is just an example...there could have been many other. scenarios....and because the alley man doesn't stop suddenly doesn't necessarily mean that the original interpretation was wrong...he may simply have been taken aback

thinking over what we've been talking about, the best way for people to have got claudia to go outside would have been to put a mild dose of something in her drink...just enough to make her feel unwell, and then they could have said they'd drive her. to a doctors, hospital etc...obviously, I dont know if they had that opportunity...that would have obviated the need to have people waiting outside.

if she was knocked out outside, a better method. than hitting or punching her would have been an injection.

im coming round more and more to pope johns idea that she was killed in a car....or, at least, the perp made sure she was dead there after the initial assault.

I remember the major saying that they thought that the time indicator on the nightime footage had been tampered with...as you know, im probably the least tech minded poster, so im interested to know what the rest of you think

 

[Tri-Lambda delta]

CLUEDO:
"I suspect..." George Pavlou in the Horwell Scrapyard with... the... body... (or moving it)

Timeline...before Neil Horwell died abroad. And before they sold and redeveloped the land.

But I guess it would take a detective to do some homework.. so start with this publicly available picture on Google maps and go from there?

 

[keep-it-real]

For anyone who is interested in the Lime Court videos and the possibility that the unknown male may have entered Heworth Place rather than the alley, the follow piece covers both possibilities:

CL /Reddit

Thank you for posting this @Yozzer there is a lot of content there worth discussion.

CLUEDO:
"I suspect..." George Pavlou in the Horwell Scrapyard with... the... body... (or moving it)

Timeline...before Neil Horwell died abroad. And before they sold and redeveloped the land.

But I guess it would take a detective to do some homework.. so start with this publicly available picture on Google maps and go from there?

Good to see you back posting.. NOW STICK AROUND your contributions are very welcome here

 

[Popejohn3]

CLUEDO:
"I suspect..." George Pavlou in the Horwell Scrapyard with... the... body... (or moving it)

Timeline...before Neil Horwell died abroad. And before they sold and redeveloped the land.

But I guess it would take a detective to do some homework.. so start with this publicly available picture on Google maps and go from there?

What made you look for this picture in Google map?
Why do you suspect these people?
And no I would not expect you to answer here .The police would have to start with what you ( or someone else)told them years ago !
You know one of the best things we can do on WS is to encourage every one with knowledge or strong suspicion to go to police and do it yesterday and not tomorrow!

 

[keep-it-real]

CLUEDO:
"I suspect..." George Pavlou in the Horwell Scrapyard with... the... body... (or moving it)

Timeline...before Neil Horwell died abroad. And before they sold and redeveloped the land.

But I guess it would take a detective to do some homework.. so start with this publicly available picture on Google maps and go from there?

@Tri-Lambda delta You might need to do some work on this still but there is a lorry parked on Heworth rd on the morning of the 19th (its been partly blurred out) could it be the one in pic you posted today?

Seperately did you pick up the still I posted of a figure caught n the bus cam on Heworth road on the evening of the 18th check him out do you recognise him from one of your previous postings
..Ive posted it again incase you didnt pick it up (2nd pic)

 

[cortina]

yes, possibly killed in. the horwell scrapyard...more space than in a car....I just mean that I dont think she was killed inside a house or flat

I still think its possible that she was put in the back of a lorry, either dead or unconscious, and taken somewhere away from York...I know its not a very useful comment but I dont think the perps had anything to lose in moving her away. from where she lived

 

[Popejohn3]

yes, possibly killed in. the horwell scrapyard...more space than in a car....I just mean that I dont think she was killed inside a house or flat

I still think its possible that she was put in the back of a lorry, either dead or unconscious, and taken somewhere away from York...I know its not a very useful comment but I dont think the perps had anything to lose in moving her away. from where she lived

I think it’s far too many people involved with far too many dubious alibis required !

 

[Popejohn3]

Did the old boy see something from his front room window?
He says he saw her days weeks before being bundled into a car which indicate he had front row seat possibly again for the 18 th

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Did the old boy see something from his front room window?
He says he saw her days weeks before being bundled into a car which indicate he had front row seat possibly again for the 18 th

The old boy is deceased, unfortunately, afaik. Hopefully police asked him, when there was still time ....

 

[keep-it-real]

the reddit piece is very interesting, but I feel it falls short in the sense that it only considers the man may have been carrying the bag for the following reasons....he had been somewhere where he needed what was in the bag...work, gym etc...or he was planning to stay with claudia....it could have been for those reasons, of course, but it could have been for another reas0n...its true he didn't go right up t0 Claudius door, but she may have said she would leave something in a bag, for example, further down...I mean nearer the entrance.....this is just an example...there could have been many other. scenarios....and because the alley man doesn't stop suddenly doesn't necessarily mean that the original interpretation was wrong...he may simply have been taken aback
thinking over what we've been talking about, the best way for people to have got claudia to go outside would have been to put a mild dose of something in her drink...just enough to make her feel unwell, and then they could have said they'd drive her. to a doctors, hospital etc...obviously, I dont know if they had that opportunity...that would have obviated the need to have people waiting outside.
if she was knocked out outside, a better method. than hitting or punching her would have been an injection.
im coming round more and more to pope johns idea that she was killed in a car....or, at least, the perp made sure she was dead there after the initial assault.
I remember the major saying that they thought that the time indicator on the nightime footage had been tampered with...as you know, im probably the least tech minded poster, so im interested to know what the rest of you think

In my opinion so much of the cctv footage that has been made public has been edited within an inch of its life so its very difficult to get clear continuum of whats happening at any given time and and with who. As Ive said before we should be suspicious of any footage that does not bear a date and time stamp.
I would also like to point out that when police make statements which include 'Possibly' its important that we bear this in mind when processing footage I am particulary making reference to possibly a light coloured ford focus and possibly carrying a bag its important not just to lock onto these as facts but only to consider them.

On the Alleyman's return walk we have been told he is possibly carrying a bag but from my analysis he actually has arm around someone either around their shoulders or possibly in a neck hold a agree the hesitant stop is most likely to avoid the male in the light coloured coat as he passes the movement suggested as searching in is pocket or for his phone is I believe a reajustment of his hold on the restrained person and is probably because he is trying to get away. The struggle/scuffle continues until they get to the corner of the street where a second person comes into frame at this point the alleyman and the second person can be seen carrying the person in what I would discribe a stretcher hold (a legs and arms carrying hold) as they disappear around the corner. This could of course this could have been someone struggling with a drunk friend but given the police interest in the footage and the question on the footage being asked 'what is he doing' it could possibly be something more serious.
From what I can make out he restrained person is a male.

Was this male someone who was needed out of the way that evening and that was the purpose of Alleymans walk in and out?

MOO

 

[Popejohn3]

In my opinion so much of the cctv footage that has been made public has been edited within an inch of its life so its very difficult to get clear continuum of whats happening at any given time and and with who. As Ive said before we should be suspicious of any footage that does not bear a date and time stamp.
I would also like to point out that when police make statements which include 'Possibly' its important that we bear this in mind when processing footage I am particulary making reference to possibly a light coloured ford focus and possibly carrying a bag its important not just to lock onto these as facts but only to consider them.

On the Alleyman's return walk we have been told he is possibly carrying a bag but from my analysis he actually has arm around someone either around their shoulders or possibly in a neck hold a agree the hesitant stop is most likely to avoid the male in the light coloured coat as he passes the movement suggested as searching in is pocket or for his phone is I believe a reajustment of his hold on the restrained person and is probably because he is trying to get away. The struggle/scuffle continues until they get to the corner of the street where a second person comes into frame at this point the alleyman and the second person can be seen carrying the person in what I would discribe a stretcher hold (a legs and arms carrying hold) as they disappear around the corner. This could of course this could have been someone struggling with a drunk friend but given the police interest in the footage and the question on the footage being asked 'what is he doing' it could possibly be something more serious.
From what I can make out he restrained person is a male.

Was this male someone who was needed out of the way that evening and that was the purpose of Alleymans walk in and out?

MOO

Is it possible for you to repost the clip you are seeing all of this in ?

 

[cortina]

if claudia was taken away from York by non locals, there wouldn't have been dubious alibis because the York police probably dont know who they are....not saying it happened, just saying its a possibility

 

[cortina]

kir....if there was a punch up as you describe, it still could be indirectly linked to whoever killed claudia....mayne a dealer beating someone who hasn't paid up

 

[keep-it-real]

Is it possible for you to repost the clip you are seeing all of this in ?

I used the NYP alleyman footage PJ You can Find it on Youtube

.. adjust the settings as I suggested before when viewing it def helps as you will be viewing it numerous times
I use Movavi editor to pick out the detail exposure contrast shadow brightness saturation and highlights