UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #12

[keep-it-real]

https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/39902/tributes-paid-to-quartz-travel-agent-jordan-sullivanSorry it wasn’t until 2012 xView attachment 280819View attachment 280820

Thanks @Vixey.

 

[keep-it-real]

Putting The Pressure On. Don’t Be Fooled.

NYP through Crimewatch released some footage taken from a bus at 9.01pm on the 18th March 2009 trying to identify a white vauxhall van estate, rather than stopping at the van or dhoeing a still the bus carried on down Heworth Road passing the Nags, and passing Claudias - showing two vehicles parked outside Claudias house - the police were showing the perps they had been seen.

The next example of the police showing the perps that they knew who had carried out the crime is the strategically placed video screens showing footage of Claudia disappearance.

Another example was the Claudias phone movements on the evening of the 18th, the morning of the 19th until 12.10pm on the 19th when the perp decided to switch the phone off.
They say it was in an 8mile triangulation of York - so they know it was likely to be a local perp. Make no mistake they know within a few feet it’s position all of the time it was turned on - how do we know this? Because the police made it clear the phone was being used in the Acomb area leading up to her disappearance in the weeks before.

as a final note - not only do they know where Claudias phone was - they also know where perps phones were in the same time frame.

you might think you are fooling people but you are not - you are only fooling yourself.

Gerard Tubb 13.31 .. She had made calls to her parents which the police have never revealed where she was when she made those calls and of course they have a pretty good idea from the cell phone data, but for operational reasons they have kept that to themselves. And having made those calls she was never heard from again.

 

[Popejohn3]

Putting The Pressure On. Don’t Be Fooled.

NYP through Crimewatch released some footage taken from a bus at 9.01pm on the 18th March 2009 trying to identify a white vauxhall van estate, rather than stopping at the van or dhoeing a still the bus carried on down Heworth Road passing the Nags, and passing Claudias - showing two vehicles parked outside Claudias house - the police were showing the perps they had been seen.

The next example of the police showing the perps that they knew who had carried out the crime is the strategically placed video screens showing footage of Claudia disappearance.

Another example was the Claudias phone movements on the evening of the 18th, the morning of the 19th until 12.10pm on the 19th when the perp decided to switch the phone off.
They say it was in an 8mile triangulation of York - so they know it was likely to be a local perp. Make no mistake they know within a few feet it’s position all of the time it was turned on - how do we know this? Because the police made it clear the phone was being used in the Acomb area leading up to her disappearance in the weeks before.

as a final note - not only do they know where Claudias phone was - they also know where perps phones were in the same time frame.

you might think you are fooling people but you are not - you are only fooling yourself.

Would the police have a record of AlL phones used in that area at a specific time of importance ?
Would they eliminate phones that are not registered in that 8 mile radius or perhaps look only at phones that are not registered in that 8 mile radius ?

 

[keep-it-real]

Putting The Pressure On. Don’t Be Fooled.

NYP through Crimewatch released some footage taken from a bus at 9.01pm on the 18th March 2009 trying to identify a white vauxhall van estate, rather than stopping at the van or dhoeing a still the bus carried on down Heworth Road passing the Nags, and passing Claudias - showing two vehicles parked outside Claudias house - the police were showing the perps they had been seen.

The next example of the police showing the perps that they knew who had carried out the crime is the strategically placed video screens showing footage of Claudia disappearance.

Another example was the Claudias phone movements on the evening of the 18th, the morning of the 19th until 12.10pm on the 19th when the perp decided to switch the phone off.
They say it was in an 8mile triangulation of York - so they know it was likely to be a local perp. Make no mistake they know within a few feet it’s position all of the time it was turned on - how do we know this? Because the police made it clear the phone was being used in the Acomb area leading up to her disappearance in the weeks before.

as a final note - not only do they know where Claudias phone was - they also know where perps phones were in the same time frame.

you might think you are fooling people but you are not - you are only fooling yourself.

Mike Laycock chief reporter of The York Press at the time said in the Missing or Murdered tv doc
It did seem sometimes as if a mist had been created enveloping the police investigation that covered up the truth about what had happened to Claudia.

Unfortunately no link avail for the missing or murdered programe

 

[Popejohn3]

Gerard Tubb 13.31 .. She had made calls to her parents which the police have never revealed where she was when she made those calls and of course they have a pretty good idea from the cell phone data, but for operational reasons they have kept that to themselves. And having made those calls she was never heard from again.

I have rewatched this video again tonight and I’m convinced that the likes of Nicola Talent, Clive Driscoll Gerald Tubs and even Machinty himself could be on this site talking to us . I cannot believe they do not read WS threads on crimes they’ve investigated and especially one as big as this, come on guys show yourselves !?

 

[Popejohn3]

I have just listened to true crime watch on anchor fm where it is stated with some authority that Claudia had just the one mobile phone charger ! And this was found in her house giving credence to her not going out to sleep in someone else’s house because she would want to charge her phone overnight for work.
This info is very important to my mind .

 

[oudzuid]

Many sightings aren't always of the POI. One thing I wonder about that is it was said CL was blonde at the time and then a while later it came out she actually was in brunette phase at time of the disappearance so the picture they were using to promote her missing wasn't that accurate if I've got all that right.

As ever with anything NYP release it's very light on detail e.g. did person who made this sighting see the two people having a row? Did female get out of the car and was then coaxed back in and car then went off at great pace?

Must've been some incident like this for police to be promoting it in media in the years afterwards.

Just seen the link and seems the car was actually parked which seems odd to me so it wouldn't have departed in a hurry if she'd been bundled back in without wanting to. Also no mention of the other person smoking which appeared in many of the press reports.

Man and woman seen arguing outside University of York

It could've been her but then you wonder what happened given she was already 10 minutes late for her shift and was outside the vehicle for her then not to just walk inside so not convinced.

It could have been just a normal couple having a tiff. It happens to us all. Equally it could have been the culprits arguing over what to do with a body?

 

[oudzuid]

I'm struggling to make the connection between backpack and riverboat.

@Bagpipes Me also. It is likely that the backpack and Claudia formed a neat package. Perhaps the phone was retained to see who was starting to worry about her or even for content on phone

 

[oudzuid]

When your talking about drugs deals are you talking about the raid on a cannabis farm near York on 27th Feb 2009 where they found £500,000 of cannabis plants and one of the men Chen Cai Guan was beaten and murdered and frown in a canal?

@Madpaul71
No I do not believe that there is any relevance with Chen Cai Guan.
I was not speaking about any specific drug activity.
It could just be two students doing a deal.
I don't subscribe to the Cannabis plant theoryl
I know there was one person who saw a backpack with an oriental emblem on in Heworth Place on the Alley Person, but thinking more about that sighting:

• Would a drug dealer advertise they were part of a sect on their backpack and parade in front of CCTV
• As no one else could see this emblem, for me its a case of trying to shoe a theory into this case

 

[oudzuid]

It was parked on the grass verge and I believe it to be all true. It was at the right time and the right place .I’m guessing he harmed her and that is why no one came forward.

@Popejohn3 Was it at the right time-06:10. This would have made Claudia late for work and were the argument was sighted, if she was receiving a lift, a car offering a lift would have passed this spot at 05:55 latest if they were taking her straight to cafeteria car park.
Even earlier if they were dropping her at this point for her to walk the last stretch through Uni grounds.

What I do agree on is the spot where the argument was seen would be the exact position CL would be dropped off at if she decided to walk the last leg. E.G.

She liked the exercise
Her lift giver didn't work at the UNI and so didn't have to go out of their way
The lift giver worked at a completely different part of the UNI

 

[oudzuid]

Of course that's a possibility but what was the witness doing? If they'd seen any sort of struggle and car then roar off quickly then even if you don't ring straight away you might mention it to others at the uni and then if they hear from another department someone hasn't turned up for their shift then you take steps to contact. Instead nothing for over 24 hours.

I agree if things looked calm-ish no reason to suspect foul play was about to occur as inevitably happened.

I'd be interested to know how far from the conversation witness was. 100 + yards and you can just about make outline for the two individuals. Anything closer and I guess the police have a bit more concrete information they're keeping quiet. Of course it will be fairly dark still at this time of the morning aswell.

@Inspector Evans Sunrise was 06:11 on this day in 2009.
This incident would not normally be reported to police but likely only reported because people start to see the missing appeal for Claudia.

 

[oudzuid]

The witness was driving along with the car on his left and the couple on his right he she also looked in the rear view mirror because he probably sensed it was a bit unusual but never in a million years thought he was witnessing a fatal altercation .
She was not reported missing till Friday and not all people are interested in the news .

@Popejohn3 Was this the final altercation if even CL. Do you have evidence to prove this?

 

[oudzuid]

Hi all; I hope the points I mention have not been discussed before in a manner that means these points are a waste of time

• The issue of Claudia using her mobile phone to speak to someone before Claudia posts something in the letterbox. Could Claudia possibly be warning someone that she had posted something to them as part of a bribe? Furthermore; could it have been a DVD that was posted?
• If we take into consideration the statistic that a lot of victims know the perpetrator or perpetrators. Then could a toxic mix of bribery over multiple issues with several individuals, be the reason for Claudia's fate. That being: various activities which could have been used as a way of leverage to extract cash from people, the added dimension of relationships, all the reactions from people who can see their lifestyles being taken from them due to exposure and prosecution. A dangerous climate of multiple events could have led to an organised 'removal of the problem'.
• Were the authorities 'hoodwinked' for approx 1 year about Claudia's movements on the morning that she was believed to set off to work?; when perhaps she did not. I am sure there was a video posted on this site that showed a lady that looked very much like Claudia walking past the parade of shops towards the C0-op? early in the morning where the chap of Afro-Caribbean? ethnicity was seen. I'm sure this chap walked past her from the opposite direction at approx the time Claudia would be normally walking to work. Other people on this forum looked at the video and said it was definitely not her. Was this lady on the video someone by sheer chance that looked like Claudia or was it a partially successful 'Red Herring'

However; people on this forum have also discussed the issue of the hair dye found in the house. I am sure Claudia dyed her hair a week previously. So; has someone entered the house and used the dye. Have they dyed a wig and dressed up in Claudias clothes with 'A RUCKSACK' and received a lift at the appropriate time in the morning. Has an extra dimension to confuse matters been implemented. Has someone used Claudias phone to contact other people to turn up in order to give Claudia a lift to work? (I think MajorLang touched on this type of thing happening the previous night) . Had a Taxi been called to pick up 'a Claudia Lawrence' from outside her home in order to take her to work. And the perpetrators have been that crafty that they have told the Taxi driver when they have turned up; that 'I'm sorry but my planned lifts turned up over there at last, here's 5 quid for your wasted time'. Is that why the authorities were asking about Taxi drivers?

Have the 2 events above wasted The Police's time until they have lent on someone or persons; and been informed that Claudia left the property using the back door for whatever reason. Is that why the authorities started to vigorously search the back alley about 1 year later etc?


I'm sure The Police stated early in the case....'' they believed Claudia set off for work''. But did the authorities then realise Claudia had not set off to work; due to the ''Red Herrings'' conducted by people I'm sure knew Claudia well. I can not see strangers using the type of ''Red Herrings'' that may have been constructed

• With reference to a text that was supposed to of been sent from Claudia's phone to Jen King, after Claudia had finished talking to her Mum. (I'll credit the gallant work and ideas of MajorLang for that). Apparently, it stated something in the manner of: ....' No fun for me because I am having to work 12 days in a row'

Thus a few points about that:

A) It was thought that Claudia normally ended her texts with a kiss (X). The text apparently did not. Thus; did someone have her phone and was texting certain people tactically. Put simply; people that would notice her missing first. This demonstrates that the perpetrator was someone who knew Claudia and had the knowledge to know 'who was who' in Claudias mobile contact list
B) Why did the perpetrator not contact other people in her contact list to say she was working so many shifts in a row; meaning that if Claudia did not make planned appointments, then she would not be missed. Perhaps a perpetrator did not know Claudia was meant to meet someone the night after
C) Was it Claudia that actually sent the text; but by coincidence, sent the text in an unfamiliar manner. Did Claudia have a visitor that evening who went around on the premise to ask Claudia if she could work a lot of extra shifts due to staff absence?. If Claudia did indeed send the text to Jen King; perhaps something happened to Claudia before she could send a similar text to Suzy Cooper in order to cancel the meet up in the Nags Head
D) It would seem strange that Claudia had sent that particular content in a text to Jen King If Claudia thought the content was not true in Claudia's mind. Unless (as I am sure MajorLang suggested?) Claudia said that to Jen King in order to keep a distance during a fallout

• I think Blonderabbit? and others may have a point when they suggest that something happened just after 8:30-ish . The period after the phone call with Claudia's Mum; and between the text Claudia never replied to at 9pm-ish(from the chap in Cyprus?). Or possibly between 8:30-ish and the time that the text was sent from Claudia's phone to Jen Kings phone

• If the sad event occurred within Claudia's home; then how did the perpetrators (I think there must have been more than 1 person involved) do the act and get away with it. I'd of thought next door would have heard something If a verbal row or physical event occurred. Perhaps the sad event happened very quickly and cleanly. Or; has Claudia been drugged and 'walked' through the back alley and Into a Car Park or elsewhere where there is no CCTV coverage. There may have been a need to remove Claudia from her house alive in order to extract Information from Claudia
• If this occurred; then how did people manage to take Claudia out of the area without being spotted on a CCTV camera via X mark's the criminal label all over it?. Have they just been lucky or has it been a very clever and devious plan? Has Claudia been put into a vehicle and the vehicle has managed to 'blend in' with other vehicles travelling about in the area? Put simply; has Claudia been put in a vehicle where there is no CCTV coverage. And the vehicle has had a legitimate excuse for travelling in the area; when the authorities have identified it alongside Hundreds of others, travelling in areas of interest. For example: has a body been taken out the area in a vehicle that's on a test run after a service or M.O.T . Or has there been a contractor or tradesperson that has removed a body out of the area? The Police have most likely trawled through Hours of CCTV footage and identified dozens of vehicles that could be of interest. But, If people answer their reason for being spotted in an area covered by CCTV by saying.....'' I got up and travelled to work to fix a drainpipe at No 56 High Street ''. Then all the Police can do is check for DNA in the vehicle. However; can the Police trace all the vehicles that may have been of interest. Some vehicles may have been scrapped or had false plates on. Perhaps a car was checked and contained Claudias DNA within it; but maybe that could be explained because Claudia knew that person and had travelled in the car. The guilty may have even had their vehicles checked and no DNA was found

Some great analysis here @MEKON

 

[Vixey]

Would the police have a record of AlL phones used in that area at a specific time of importance ?
Would they eliminate phones that are not registered in that 8 mile radius or perhaps look only at phones that are not registered in that 8 mile radius ?

I would like to believe the phones of friends and those Close were taken and the phone masts information held. times/ calls made and to whom/pings and time phones sat on certain masts and collaborated with Claudias mobile. However it’s very possible phones were left behind x

 

[oudzuid]

Yes when was payday at the Uni

@Popejohn3 It would have to be Mid-Month for her to be motivated to visit the agency to pay the holiday balance.
We may have some York UNI staff members on here who could advise.
However, was CL employed by UoY or was she employed by the catering company?

 

[oudzuid]

I wonder, how PR felt, if he was CL's Ex and the new lover of JK, when "his" girls went on holiday together .... He would have known well, in which way the girls' holidays would have been spent, I think. - Doesn't have to be a reason for murder of course. But usually men don't like it, when a girlfriend exerts negative influence on their partner (IF he had any concerns).

@FromGermany But was PR the only person who was jealous of CL and JK going on holiday and would it only impact on a male admirer?

 

[oudzuid]

Did the police ever show videos ( or see videos ) of Claudia going into work apart from cameras at the uni that is ?
Plus the police never showed us ( if they existed ) the clips of jo’s car picking her up ?

Good point @Popejohn3 I have looked at where Jo Picked up CL it was outside 225 Melrosegate and in a layby (Crimewatch Reconstruction) There is no CCTV here and it is not within sight f Melrosegate Parade of shops or the CCTV cameras here.

 

[Vixey]

I have just listened to true crime watch on anchor fm where it is stated with some authority that Claudia had just the one mobile phone charger ! And this was found in her house giving credence to her not going out to sleep in someone else’s house because she would want to charge her phone overnight for work.
This info is very important to my mind .

How was they sure how many chargers, I have 7 as they can fail, strange not to have a spare especially if staying out or for a emergency x

 

[oudzuid]

8.23 pm you must know something no one ( except police perhaps ) knows !
It also means you know for sure she was not arguing with anyone near the Uni next morning .

@Popejohn3 I agree with you. I do not believe that anyone can be specific about the exact time of her death. It would have to be after her last call, she could have gone to bed alone, or with someone, she could have fallen asleep or drugged.
What we don't know is when or even where.

 

[oudzuid]

Putting The Pressure On. Don’t Be Fooled.

NYP through Crimewatch released some footage taken from a bus at 9.01pm on the 18th March 2009 trying to identify a white vauxhall van estate, rather than stopping at the van or dhoeing a still the bus carried on down Heworth Road passing the Nags, and passing Claudias - showing two vehicles parked outside Claudias house - the police were showing the perps they had been seen.

The next example of the police showing the perps that they knew who had carried out the crime is the strategically placed video screens showing footage of Claudia disappearance.

Another example was the Claudias phone movements on the evening of the 18th, the morning of the 19th until 12.10pm on the 19th when the perp decided to switch the phone off.
They say it was in an 8mile triangulation of York - so they know it was likely to be a local perp. Make no mistake they know within a few feet it’s position all of the time it was turned on - how do we know this? Because the police made it clear the phone was being used in the Acomb area leading up to her disappearance in the weeks before.

as a final note - not only do they know where Claudias phone was - they also know where perps phones were in the same time frame.

you might think you are fooling people but you are not - you are only fooling yourself.

@Blonderabbit Good points here.
Claudias phone was reported as turned off within a 9 mile radius of the Uni because it would have communicated with the UNI mast. This is quite a big area.

Separately, her phone was detected connecting to a different mast in the weeks leading up to her disappearance in the Acomb area.

The two phone triangulations were different.

The first SIO Galloway stated that he knew where Clauias phone was on 18th 19th. The second SIO stated that they could only be accurate within 9 Miles.
Galloway was using "Kidology" and to put the presure on as @Blonderabbit states.
Unfortunately police don't have her exact positioning on 18th /19th and on phone turn off they can only say that it was within 9 miles of Uni mast.

CL may not have been with her phone when t was turned off. She could be miles up the motorway.