UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #18

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  • #421
As alley man appears to have his coat fastened up, I understand that you may have been able to see the collar of this "Blue and Red check shirt" but how would you know that it was worn loosely?
Also, the image quality is not good. Police will have better quality and enhanced cctv footage.

Would they not have put out a description such as yours to make it easier to locate alley man?
Are you able to screenshot the part of cctv that demonstrates the blue and red shirt being worn loosely?
I looked at better quality footage on Youtube that was issued both by police and later by someone who put all the footage in timestamp order. The shirt is 'loose' (though I'm not suring your point in bringing that up), because you see it's outside his trousers - to cover up the paunch. His [black?} jacket? With large [patch?]pockets? is open - It wasn't warm that night. He isn't dressed for the weather. The mistake of someone not local or else pissed up, imho. He could still be a 'helpful' bystander for all we know. We know people have been arrested and then not charged. All these things could be red herrings. I"m not sure about this conspiracy theorists' fantasy that the police have better footage. You can't change the resolution of a camera in 2009. Whatever's in situ is what you've got. Light levels change - tonal levels don't however - so the clothing details are significant. It can tell us who it might be, hwat age they might be, what their intentions or feelings about themselves were. The same might go for whit jacket guy. For instance, many of the cocaine gangs who operate in West Yorkshire drive white cars, wear white baseball caps and jackets and wear white trainers. There have always been these little signals to those in the area - who knew. I suspect hardly anyone in York under 40 can afford coke. But people might get in too deep with the wrong people who want to relive their party years in middle age. It's a terrible thought but maybe CL fell victim to some sort of operation. I have to say I don't udnerstand the euphemistic use of the word 'mystery' about her love-life - or soem of the terribly-vocied articles I've read about her. One was on Medium and it was so disrespectful and tonally off. It was like someone was simultaneously judging her and ogling her. I suspects the coverage of her in the news reflected how she was treated in life - I find it so unjust that her life might have been ended by such people.
 
  • #422
Sticking to Alleyman CCTV in the evening. This may have been said before but I will make the point:

I believe that alley man and white coat are working together both morning and evening.

Alleyman is checking out the rear and side of CL property whilst she is both alive and on the phone to others. He came from the direction of Nags Head pub.

White Coat comes from opposite direction and gets ahead of alley man as he is ready to walk back along HR in direction of pub.
Notice how when alley man gets to the corner of HP and HR he looks to his left along HR as he enters HR.

Is he covering white coats back.

We are not privy to earlier shots of this cctv footage, but did they both originally come from the direction of Nags head. White coat walking further along HR so that he can do a U turn and come back on himself.
Perhaps he did the U turn as alley man walked into HP?

But its still too early for them just to hang around and do nothing.

Did they both knock CL door and either be invited in?
Were they both in her house at the time of CL calls to parents?

Or
Were they just a smokescreen to later activity c 9pm with the SUV outside CL house.

In the morning, if the two were then the clean up brigade, why did they risk doing this at a time that CL could have been awaiting a lift. If she was killed in the evening, would they to do everything together.
Or were they coming back for an item that "Must not be found"-Phone etc.

For me, whoever did this seems to have covered their tracks very well and to be caught on cctv twice and accidentally would be too much of a schoolboy error.

Particularly when they could have avoided cctv attention by not going left of CL house and sticking to a route that went like this:

Drive a car into nags Car Park
Walk to CL house and access via front door or rear door by accessing alley behind her house from car park
CL could then have been put into car in car park and car driven off.

There is certainly more to this case than we know.
'Clean up brigade"??! Not the most respectful language? But I take your point about them perhaps working together. That occurred to me, so I went back and looked at the Heworth Place evening footage. Although Alleyman clocks White Jacket guy, white jacket guy goes straight ahead - he doesn't look across. I don't think Alleyman was aware of the CCTV camera as it was too far to see in darkness, so this wasn't for show. Plus, his pause looked cautious, like he didn't Want to be seen by white jacket guy - and then he definitely follows white jacket guy (possibly also with a weird, fast[drunk/}gait?) on the same side of the road. What if Alleyman has seen white jacket guy talking to CL and follows him to locate her house? Has he either a)got lost on the way to do something b) done something and then seen someone who might blow his cover, c) been an innocent person who identified a predator earlier and tried to work out if there was somebody in danger whislt returning her stuff, a helpful stranger? It's quite difficult isn't it? If neither of these two people have been identified, then fine they possibly are implicated, merely by their location and possible proximity to CL close to the time she was endangered(?), but there isn't any certainty, no framing in which we can say "A-ha" with this. Our speculation could go on forever. I do wonder about the rucksack though. Was it hers, and being disposed of/moved by Alleyguy? Was he hiding it in order to create a crisis for her to go pick up somewhere (her phone too, which the killer(s) clearly have?)? Had she left it at work or the pub? Was Alleyguy instead innocently trying to get it to her and then saw something he shouldn't? Then he looks back and someone is striding towards the house so he holds back? There are so many possibilities. It's exhausting.
 
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  • #423
Is the white man the same man we see in other clips ( cost cutter?) looking left and possibly carrying a news paper ?
The police should know ( clear picture) who he is ?
Do they know ?
If not then he is probably not local just like dark alleyway man !
Te most likely scenario is that White Coat man is DER wearing a wig-DER is one of POI's and why he was arrested
 
  • #424
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  • #425
Please can someone provide a link to the phone signal and mast site?
 
  • #426
Te most likely scenario is that White Coat man is DER wearing a wig-DER is one of POI's and why he was arrested
I have to challenge you here - I feel it’s highly unlikely DR would wear a wig - straight away locals would recognise him and think it’s odd
 
  • #427
I can't be bothered to find the footage as I'm tired - but you see his hair as he passes under the streetlamp in the CCTV footage on Heworth Place - there is also the detail of him being [quite pale] white in ethnicity and I'd say in that tonality that he has either brown or light hair dyed ash brown, slightly wavy, and the shirt id check in red and blue (no white) - there appear to be either wide leg trousers or baggy bootleg jeans, and the long [black] jacket goes (from memory, sorry if I"m not right in all the detail) to beyond the hip. The baggy clothing suggests perhaps concealment (of a weapon?) or of identity or build(?). But the fact that he is moseying about at night with no hood on or hat or concealment and his gait suggests he might be drunk. He seems of average height (maybe about 5 ft 9 in?, if we go by the height of the garden wall nearby? though I've never been there) - and he's old enought to have a paunch and wear black shoes with possibly dark blue jeans. He may be completely innocent, a literal bystander who just lives in the area. Who knows? Perhaps he paused as he saw person in white jacket and had separate history there. The hypothese could go on forever, so partial is our knowledge. I also wonder about CL being an informant or else having some knowledge somebody wanted to silence, and then perhaps something went badly wrong? Did the guy in Heworth Place know the person in white jacket? Or was it, as I originally suggested, worry about being seen/being seen with possibly CL's bag? Sorry if I've got anything wrong in the detail - I've only read a few news articles, watched a few interviews and looked at footage on here and elsewhere. My concern is largely how a woman can go missing, never be found and somehow no-one is answerable. Today's court trial of Jordan McSweeney is possibly a different sort of offence. But I don't know, maybe there aren't types really. Maybe each situation is uniquely horrific and all symptomatic of horrendous male mental health resulting in a woman's death way too often. It troubles me greatly and I've had so many close things myself I seek only to understand what happened and how these things happen and people escape discovery when we have so much surveillance. I just find it extra troubling when the officer in charge said he felt people who knew CL and knew soemthing had closed ranks. I odn't know how true that is, but it's possibly a sign of drugs or some sort of vice gang.
When you have 5 and are not so tired please provide your evidence - it could be the detail needed to find out what happened to Claudia
Thanks again for taking the time to reply, all the best
 
  • #428
  • #429
  • #430
Interesting filtering back to March 2009 - forget the cctv - perps would have been seen crawling all over 46 Heworth road
 
  • #431
Te most likely scenario is that White Coat man is DER wearing a wig-DER is one of POI's and why he was arrested
I think with respect that the police issued the white coat morning jaunt ( carrying the news paper ) way way before they released dark allywayman footage ! And that white coat man … with the news paper is the same man that allyway man tries to avoid imo
Who is the man with the news paper ? It’s a very clear picture of him! Why does he not identify himself if innocent ?
PS someone says he is wearing Italian cloths !!
 
  • #432
I think with respect that the police issued the white coat morning jaunt ( carrying the news paper ) way way before they released dark allywayman footage ! And that white coat man … with the news paper is the same man that allyway man tries to avoid imo
Who is the man with the news paper ? It’s a very clear picture of him! Why does he not identify himself if innocent ?
PS someone says he is wearing Italian cloths Italian clothes from primark
Whoops don’t know how that’s happened. Apologies PJ3. We are obviously of different opinions - I think it’s clear alleywayman stops because of the perp crossing Heworth place - alleyman obviously knows him
 
  • #433
Whoops don’t know how that’s happened. Apologies PJ3. We are obviously of different opinions - I think it’s clear alleywayman stops because of the perp crossing Heworth place - alleyman obviously knows him
Ok by oops I hope everyone is clear I did not mention primark !
So do you think the white coat man is the perp ?
 
  • #434
And who are the three or four people disappearing to the left of the clip ? They must have had a clear view of the white coat man !!
 
  • #435
Ok by oops I hope everyone is clear I did not mention primark !
So do you think the white coat man is the perp ?
Well,…., a pause…… I think he’s one of those arrested
 
  • #436
Seems very early to be able to buy a newspaper at that time of the morning to,
Then again I'm in bed at that time every morning lol
 
  • #437
I have to challenge you here - I feel it’s highly unlikely DR would wear a wig - straight away locals would recognise him and think it’s odd
He also looks like AC's son who now lives in France-not the one who worked at Nags
 
  • #438
I have to challenge you here - I feel it’s highly unlikely DR would wear a wig - straight away locals would recognise him and think it’s odd
Not at that time in morning
 
  • #439
'Clean up brigade"??! Not the most respectful language? But I take your point about them perhaps working together. That occurred to me, so I went back and looked at the Heworth Place evening footage. Although Alleyman clocks White Jacket guy, white jacket guy goes straight ahead - he doesn't look across. I don't think Alleyman was aware of the CCTV camera as it was too far to see in darkness, so this wasn't for show. Plus, his pause looked cautious, like he didn't Want to be seen by white jacket guy - and then he definitely follows white jacket guy (possibly also with a weird, fast[drunk/}gait?) on the same side of the road. What if Alleyman has seen white jacket guy talking to CL and follows him to locate her house? Has he either a)got lost on the way to do something b) done something and then seen someone who might blow his cover, c) been an innocent person who identified a predator earlier and tried to work out if there was somebody in danger whislt returning her stuff, a helpful stranger? It's quite difficult isn't it? If neither of these two people have been identified, then fine they possibly are implicated, merely by their location and possible proximity to CL close to the time she was endangered(?), but there isn't any certainty, no framing in which we can say "A-ha" with this. Our speculation could go on forever. I do wonder about the rucksack though. Was it hers, and being disposed of/moved by Alleyguy? Was he hiding it in order to create a crisis for her to go pick up somewhere (her phone too, which the killer(s) clearly have?)? Had she left it at work or the pub? Was Alleyguy instead innocently trying to get it to her and then saw something he shouldn't? Then he looks back and someone is striding towards the house so he holds back? There are so many possibilities. It's exhausting.
Apologies "Clean Up Brigade" I should have said "murderous perps who covered up the evidence of a disgusting event"-Does that suit you better?
 
  • #440
Re-reading just 1 point - I believe costcutter man to be seen only in morning footage on the odd side walking in front of 35 carrying what looks to be a paper sized object. There’s is another figure - stocky which appears on the even side crossing Heworth place - I’m thinking this is Alistair cooper
Looking at lighting-First sighting of White coat man was in hours of darkness-Early dawn. CCTV at Costcutters appears to be much later based upon lighting conditions.

Not an issue as perhaps he was at 46 Heworth Road cleaning up before he walked passed cost cutters?
 
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