UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #18

[Woodburnbay]

When you watch the released footage - ie that released by the Police - the footage jumps many frames - And YES... even i myself years ago presumed there was only one tall person (only because I assumed such after being told so). The TRUTH is in the footage. The story is there. Undo the false assumptions and watch it again. Two people are there... so close...held... one being dragged. The shadows of 2 figures are darker when there are 2 shadows overlapping. One figure casts a smaller (not as dark shadow). Two figures (real close) move to the right alley. One figure returns (moving left) and is met by a woman before the corner. Ever frame containing the same walking figure is an assumption. The figure is NOT as tall as one presumes. The figure is bent over at some places - dragging the other figure. It is the the background that provides fake head shapes where one presumes a head should be. Again.... the figure is not as tall as one would presume.

Sorry I have studies this footage for 3 years and don't see two people but perhaps im blinded to this-Does anyone else see two people?

 

[Blonderabbit]

Sorry I have studies this footage for 3 years and don't see two people but perhaps im blinded to this-Does anyone else see two people?

I have used some professional graphics software, video editing and enhancing - it’s 1 person - the frame rate looks to be perhaps 15fps which has then been cut back - the quality is poor. I’ve viewed it a frame at a time and I cannot see Jk

 

[Tri-Lambda delta]

Can I tell a TRUE STORY and say that this is Fiction in order for it to be told? Am I allowed to tell this STORY here ... just like S.A.S do when they release their FICTIONAL BOOKS. If so... disclaimer.. here is the truth released as a fictional story.

Background: "I use military-remote-viewing to find archaeological artefacts.
I recently surveyed Petra, JORDAN. I found THINGS that would sound fantasical if I didnt back them up with solid evidence in the real world. I can back-up what I say. I tie things together. I allow others to decide for themselves; to SEE if I have found what I set out to seek." That's it in a nutshell... (as an EXTRA) I can provide links to wall and ceiling maps of Ancient Earth (as seen from Space) that will never ever be acknowledged by the media. And that's the ballpark I'm playing in. But I'll continue...

So... here is the kicker... I used Peter Lawrence (deceased father of Claudia) as a 'way-point' in my investigation. KNOWING that he too was trying to find her location... And that HE would help me and show me (skipping along) ... HERE is the INFO ..."it was very-very scary... the staircase winds down and left out of the room in the building where it happened... 3-5 people... only one was recognisable by me... one person who was shocking a friend (Jen KING) a man directed her "Go outside and keep a look-out". It was DARK and hectic, and frantic upstairs in this room. "Sue" was another name said out loud to one of the figures in the room" A comparatively large vehicle 'black van'... was Claudia's only thought on the vehicle. The story as-is...no fluff.

Forgive me for having to release it this way. It was a lot of people! And Jen can genuinely say she didnt do it..BUT... she was the ordered look-out... and that is HOW this goes. And that is the angle deceased Peter lawrence delivered... no messing... proceed with that avenue.... please.

Will this be allowed to be published? Maybe a few can read this before it vanishes into the aether.

I

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I think the question now should be Where ?
Where is her body ?
Short of a confession there is little chance of a successful prosecution without a body .

I wonder if this is the right question! One can't find where she is if we can't work out what happened to her. I must say I'm finding forum frustrating. Some people are getting so tied up in semantics or tiny details or interpretations, it's like the ranks closing in the community itself. Logic is being somewhat obscured (Deliberately?)
I don't think the police said this in the statement randomly, or as a way to give up. It's always better to work with what you already actually know to be true.
Regarding questions about the weather the day I was in York - not sure, I was indoors for most of it. During the day it seemed grey and then it was cold, clear night. I didn't have a scarf and felt a chill. Wide-gait man (rucksack guy) doesn't appear to have the same sensitivity to cold. But then some pub drinkers don't make sense in their clothing. Unjacketed young men in terrible short sleeved shirts to avoid the cost of a cloak room in clubs made no practical but at least some financial sense in the 1990s. Here they could have worn heavier coats but chose not to. They were either on pub crawls (more likely than nightclubs, going by the belly on the first one) or spending time indoors or on/in transport - a car, as has been mentioned? The trouble is, people mentions vehicles and then you find it's a reflection in a bus shelter of a dumpster truck or something. I don't know which car people have referred to. All I'm saying is it's either someone local who hasn't far to walk between work and home, from pub to pub, or is maybe in vehicle. Guy in white jacket looks like he's in conspicuous, look-at-me white jacket for a reason? As I say, possibly drugs or a club aesthetic? He wants to be seen, but he other guy doesn't? But what doesn't tally for me is how the guy in the 'check' shirt with the rucksack has no hood or hat on, is in possibly his local area and obviously holds back for a reason. If he was known to people in the area, surely he would hide himself if he had done something wrong? If he's not known, why would he hide from white jacket guy? Either he knows him, or they know each other purely from an earlier occasion that day or night? So many guesses. There are so many possibilities, this is probably futile as we actually know so little.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

The reason we know that vehicles were parked in Heworth Road around 9pm that evening is because of CCTV from passing buses.

I know nothing of the bus timetables for Heworth Road, but if there were buses using the route after that time then I would have assumed that their CCTV was scanned for the period 9-11pm to understand if said vehicles remained parked or not.

MajorLang wrote something about this on his long Medium-hosted brain dump of this case two or three years ago.

FWIW I’ve long thought the most striking evidence from the 24 hours or so around the time of her disappearance was the allegation that bed furnishings were moved out of a B&B room at the Nags Head on the morning of the 19th. IMO that sounds very suspicious.

The police already said they removed it as part of their interrogation there.

 

[Blonderabbit]

I wonder if this is the right question! One can't find where she is if we can't work out what happened to her. I must say I'm finding forum frustrating. Some people are getting so tied up in semantics or tiny details or interpretations, it's like the ranks closing in the community itself. Logic is being somewhat obscured (Deliberately?)
I don't think the police said this in the statement randomly, or as a way to give up. It's always better to work with what you already actually know to be true.
Regarding questions about the weather the day I was in York - not sure, I was indoors for most of it. During the day it seemed grey and then it was cold, clear night. I didn't have a scarf and felt a chill. Wide-gait man (rucksack guy) doesn't appear to have the same sensitivity to cold. But then some pub drinkers don't make sense in their clothing. Unjacketed young men in terrible short sleeved shirts to avoid the cost of a cloak room in clubs made no practical but at least some financial sense in the 1990s. Here they could have worn heavier coats but chose not to. They were either on pub crawls (more likely than nightclubs, going by the belly on the first one) or spending time indoors or on/in transport - a car, as has been mentioned? The trouble is, people mentions vehicles and then you find it's a reflection in a bus shelter of a dumpster truck or something. I don't know which car people have referred to. All I'm saying is it's either someone local who hasn't far to walk between work and home, from pub to pub, or is maybe in vehicle. Guy in white jacket looks like he's in conspicuous, look-at-me white jacket for a reason? As I say, possibly drugs or a club aesthetic? He wants to be seen, but he other guy doesn't? But what doesn't tally for me is how the guy in the 'check' shirt with the rucksack has no hood or hat on, is in possibly his local area and obviously holds back for a reason. If he was known to people in the area, surely he would hide himself if he had done something wrong? If he's not known, why would he hide from white jacket guy? Either he knows him, or they know each other purely from an earlier occasion that day or night? So many guesses. There are so many possibilities, this is probably futile as we actually know so little.

Hi, thank you for your explanation. Can I say it causes me to doubt when I get an over explaination. It wasn’t Symantec’s. You referred to the weather being cold on the evening of the 18th March 2009. You said you lived in York at the time of Claudias Disappearance. To remember detail such as the weather at a critical time is going to draw attention. You also go into detail about colour and pattern of Alleyway mans shirt - detail which others (myself included) cannot see, even with professional software and techniques.
Again thank you for your explanation.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Hi, thank you for your explanation. Can I say it causes me to doubt when I get an over explaination. It wasn’t Symantec’s. You referred to the weather being cold on the evening of the 18th March 2009. You said you lived in York at the time of Claudias Disappearance. To remember detail such as the weather at a critical time is going to draw attention. You also go into detail about colour and pattern of Alleyway mans shirt - detail which others (myself included) cannot see, even with professional software and techniques.
Again thank you for your explanation.

I DID NOT say I lived in York. You really need to read posts if you're going to comment on them. No-one accused you of semantics. Try not to take things so personally. Surely this is meant to be a team effort? It's quite clear that the shirt is a check shirt if you look, the jacket is dark or black, and the paunch is a paunch. I don't know what to say apart from that. If you could hold back on attacking complete strangers I think that would really help our efforts here. I talk about the choice of coat as naturally that helps to explain his intentions - at least when he set out. Judging by his gait he either has an injury or has had a few beers. I think these are helpful things to work out. It also helps determine - IF rucksack guy was involved at all, which he may not have been - if it was a spontaneous act or premeditated. So much has been said about Claudia's character in the press and online, I find it distasteful. She seems like a romantic, striving for what she wanted, but couldn't find it. She looked to have had her hope dashed time and time again. A lot of chefs are near to drugs without being involved in them - but not usually on university campuses when you're working the day. It's not MPW-land in York. I'm thinking in terms of jealous older men she may have rejected, protective male friends, violence resultant to arguments, cover-ups by bewildered relatives (ie not Cluadia's but relatives of possible attackers) or partners. There's so much that could be going on. If you feel suspicions about the police hiding better quality footage, use that. It's been over ten years. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a cover-up as the police said, and some people in the community's self-interest involved in that. Possibly further deaths, or threats of it. How can such a well-known woman, in the heart of her community, have her disappearance and possible death (and sadly also her body) concealed without her killer possibly working together with other people? It's virtually unheard of.

 

[Miss Elizabeth]

Can I tell a TRUE STORY and say that this is Fiction in order for it to be told? Am I allowed to tell this STORY here ... just like S.A.S do when they release their FICTIONAL BOOKS. If so... disclaimer.. here is the truth released as a fictional story.

Background: "I use military-remote-viewing to find archaeological artefacts.
I recently surveyed Petra, JORDAN. I found THINGS that would sound fantasical if I didnt back them up with solid evidence in the real world. I can back-up what I say. I tie things together. I allow others to decide for themselves; to SEE if I have found what I set out to seek." That's it in a nutshell... (as an EXTRA) I can provide links to wall and ceiling maps of Ancient Earth (as seen from Space) that will never ever be acknowledged by the media. And that's the ballpark I'm playing in. But I'll continue...

So... here is the kicker... I used Peter Lawrence (deceased father of Claudia) as a 'way-point' in my investigation. KNOWING that he too was trying to find her location... And that HE would help me and show me (skipping along) ... HERE is the INFO ..."it was very-very scary... the staircase winds down and left out of the room in the building where it happened... 3-5 people... only one was recognisable by me... one person who was shocking a friend (Jen KING) a man directed her "Go outside and keep a look-out". It was DARK and hectic, and frantic upstairs in this room. "Sue" was another name said out loud to one of the figures in the room" A comparatively large vehicle 'black van'... was Claudia's only thought on the vehicle. The story as-is...no fluff.

Forgive me for having to release it this way. It was a lot of people! And Jen can genuinely say she didnt do it..BUT... she was the ordered look-out... and that is HOW this goes. And that is the angle deceased Peter lawrence delivered... no messing... proceed with that avenue.... please.

Will this be allowed to be published? Maybe a few can read this before it vanishes into the aether.

I

Ok. But why?

~ E

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I DID NOT say I lived in York. You really need to read posts if you're going to comment on them. No-one accused you of semantics. Try not to take things so personally. Surely this is meant to be a team effort? It's quite clear that the shirt is a check shirt if you look, the jacket is dark or black, and the paunch is a paunch. I don't know what to say apart from that. If you could hold back on attacking complete strangers I think that would really help our efforts here. I talk about the choice of coat as naturally that helps to explain his intentions - at least when he set out. Judging by his gait he either has an injury or has had a few beers. I think these are helpful things to work out. It also helps determine - IF rucksack guy was involved at all, which he may not have been - if it was a spontaneous act or premeditated. So much has been said about Claudia's character in the press and online, I find it distasteful. She seems like a romantic, striving for what she wanted, but couldn't find it. She looked to have had her hope dashed time and time again. A lot of chefs are near to drugs without being involved in them - but not usually on university campuses when you're working the day. It's not MPW-land in York. I'm thinking in terms of jealous older men she may have rejected, protective male friends, violence resultant to arguments, cover-ups by bewildered relatives (ie not Cluadia's but relatives of possible attackers) or partners. There's so much that could be going on. If you feel suspicions about the police hiding better quality footage, use that. We jsut don't acces to it, so it's pointless. Time is a clue. It's been over ten years. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a cover-up by perpetrators and accomplices as the police said, and some people in the community's self-interest involved in that. Possibly further deaths, or threats of it. How can such a well-known woman, in the heart of her community, have her disappearance and possible death (and sadly also her body) concealed without her killer possibly working together with other people? It's virtually unheard of.

 

[Blonderabbit]

I DID NOT say I lived in York. You really need to read posts if you're going to comment on them. No-one accused you of semantics. Try not to take things so personally. Surely this is meant to be a team effort? It's quite clear that the shirt is a check shirt if you look, the jacket is dark or black, and the paunch is a paunch. I don't know what to say apart from that. If you could hold back on attacking complete strangers I think that would really help our efforts here. I talk about the choice of coat as naturally that helps to explain his intentions - at least when he set out. Judging by his gait he either has an injury or has had a few beers. I think these are helpful things to work out. It also helps determine - IF rucksack guy was involved at all, which he may not have been - if it was a spontaneous act or premeditated. So much has been said about Claudia's character in the press and online, I find it distasteful. She seems like a romantic, striving for what she wanted, but couldn't find it. She looked to have had her hope dashed time and time again. A lot of chefs are near to drugs without being involved in them - but not usually on university campuses when you're working the day. It's not MPW-land in York. I'm thinking in terms of jealous older men she may have rejected, protective male friends, violence resultant to arguments, cover-ups by bewildered relatives (ie not Cluadia's but relatives of possible attackers) or partners. There's so much that could be going on. If you feel suspicions about the police hiding better quality footage, use that. It's been over ten years. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a cover-up as the police said, and some people in the community's self-interest involved in that. Possibly further deaths, or threats of it. How can such a well-known woman, in the heart of her community, have her disappearance and possible death (and sadly also her body) concealed without her killer possibly working together with other people? It's virtually unheard of.

I cannot see any kind of personal attacking of a complete stranger - if you feel that way I apologise- I’ve re read your original post and yes you say you were in York when she disappeared (assuming) (not lived there) agreed. I do not take anything personally.

 

[Raffy]

The police already said they removed it as part of their interrogation there.

The bed furnishings were rumoured to have been removed on the 19th, which is the day before Claudia was reported missing, so it wasn't the police who removed them.

 

[Blonderabbit]

The bed furnishings were rumoured to have been removed on the 19th, which is the day before Claudia was reported missing, so it wasn't the police who removed them.

The police did remove items from the nags as part of a search - I remember reading a blood stained item. Rumours re the items may not be correct, you’d have to confirm the source. Interesting though. All of a sudden lots of pieces are pointing at the nags - can I ask though - why the kerfuffle outside Claudias at 9.01pm if she’s in the nags?

 

[Raffy]

The police did remove items from the nags as part of a search - I remember reading a blood stained item. Rumours re the items may not be correct, you’d have to confirm the source. Interesting though. All of a sudden lots of pieces are pointing at the nags - can I ask though - why the kerfuffle outside Claudias at 9.01pm if she’s in the nags?

I stated on the previous page what was taken by the police, a mattress protector, sheet and pillowcase and i provided a link, the item rumored to of been taken on the 19th was a bed i'm not stating it's correct though the rumour has been around from the beginning of this forum, i don't know if you have read this forum from the very beginning.

Police dog team seize bed sheets 'with speck of blood' from missing chef Claudia Lawrence's local pub

Thirteen officers with two specialist search dogs spent six-and-a-half hours working through every part of the Nag's Head in York, including the five guest bedrooms.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Blonderabbit]

I stated on the previous page what was taken by the police, a mattress protector, sheet and pillowcase and i provided a link, the item rumored to of been taken on the 19th was a bed i'm not stating it's correct though the rumour has been around from the beginning of this forum, i don't know if you have read this forum from the very beginning.

Police dog team seize bed sheets 'with speck of blood' from missing chef Claudia Lawrence's local pub

Thirteen officers with two specialist search dogs spent six-and-a-half hours working through every part of the Nag's Head in York, including the five guest bedrooms.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Yes I have gone from the beginning. So if it did happen at the nags - how long had she been there? Was she at home at 9,01pm and then moved to the nags? Or was she in the nags when talking to mum and dad? - on the alleywayman footage 7.15pm - it that Alistair Cooper on his way to the nags for a showdown ?

 

[poirotoupierrot]

None of the guys I've seen in photos fit the height or build of alleyway guy - IF that's the guy who did something to Claudia.Has everyone already thrown out Chris Halliwell? The detail here about him killing someone he did building work for might fit with Claudia's renovations on her house?! I don't know if she had any done, but she did seem house-proud and someone commented on her dad having his name on the property (normal, when parents of means are able to help their kids get on the property ladder and acquire a home). Who's to say he didn't approach on that basis and then attack her? Perhaps the police know something about him but still feel people locally holding back about things they know too?

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Perhaps it's too horrible to consider, but to me preferable to murder: what if Claudia actually took her own life? It's an awful thought, but I was just looking at this: Claudia Lawrence: New clues found in home and and car | Team USA The timeline reminds us that she spoke with her mother and her father in sequence. Who does that, except in crisis? And then she texted a friend? Was she arranging to meet her friend Suzy Cooper, who she failed to meet the following night and who alerted the police? From 8.23pm on 18th December, something went on. Or did it? No-one saw her after 3.05pm that afternoon? For some reason, she is very active contacting people between 8.10pm and 8.23pm. For some reason, despite numerous mentions in articles of her being 'a very active texter' I haven't seen anything that mentions her contacting anyone at any other time that day? Was she being held by someone? When her mobile is 'deliberately switched off' the following day I was venturing to think it was her, escaping some terrible situation or her own mind, but maybe the worst really is true. Ach. I think I'm back to thinking murder again. Also - why was it important for her to seem present both at that time in the evening and then the next day? Is it possible that if the perpetrator was local they were nearby (at the pub?) and could therefore go back to the pub in order to 'appear' present, then disappear again to do something terrible that evening, but leave the phone on? If the bag is of significance with alleyway guy, does it have Claudia's phone inside? Was it switched off or charged down, then switched back on and switched off somewhere else specific in order ot give the impression of distance covered, as well as time? As for the Geordie guy who was questioned, he seemed like a mate - although his shirt looks to me like alleyway guy's I"m not convinced alleyway has the same build. I'm not even remotely saying alleyway guy was the killer. Alleyway guy seems to have a slim face, possibly thinning, wavy light brown hair, and slim legs despite the paunch, plus the kind of sag in bootleg type jeans guys in their 40s and early fifties. It's not a style of men who are in or near their sixties. I just can't place that figure in any pictures I've seen. He could still be an innocent onlooker, as could white jacket/shirt guy. But alleyway guy not wanting to be seen suggests recognising someone you don't want to be seen by. Perhaps the real threat is white jacket guy?

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Yes I have gone from the beginning. So if it did happen at the nags - how long had she been there? Was she at home at 9,01pm and then moved to the nags? Or was she in the nags when talking to mum and dad? - on the alleywayman footage 7.15pm - it that Alistair Cooper on his way to the nags for a showdown ?

I alwasy pictured Claudia back at home - if she was, as she wasn't seen after 3.05pm? The worry is, was she in fact there? As I said in my recent comments, I'm beginning to think if she called people in that short time frame between 8.10pm and 8.23pm, had she been held somewhere? If the alleyway man IS dodgy (and I'm not saying he is, he could be part of something, but we don't know, there might be more to this) could he have gone back to retrieve her bag knowing someone was coming? Is THAT why he holds back in the alleyway? Not necessarily to not be seen by a 'bad guy' but not to be seen by someone who might be a loudmouth or something like that? - Or, he could be dodgy....

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Sorry, another thought: as she was last sighted at 3.05pm, was that when she left work, or the 'possible' sighting of her near the bridge? I'm also thinking that if it was usual for her to go to pub so near to her house, most people on their feet all day would pop home first to change and freshen up, shower, etc. If this was the case, why wasn't she in the pub in the evening? This suggests to me she texted (or was told to text/or was fobbing off) Suzy Cooper she would stay at home (whether she did or not) - and either stayed in the house/or elsewhere in the centre of York of her own volition/or was being held. We know the phone didn't leave York. Was this important because she or her body (apologies) did, and therefore this would stop people panicking about her? I'm not sure now if this is the killer's concern or her own. Was she persuaded of a plan which then turned out to far more sinister? I talked a lot about clothes showing intentions in alleyway guy before as if he was was thought of as a suspect then it's possible to determine that, if he as drunk and less susceptible to cold he would walk funny and have his jacket open on a dark night. His planning/strategy would be off. People would need to help him.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Sorry, another thought: as she was last sighted at 3.05pm, was that when she left work, or the 'possible' sighting of her near the bridge? I'm also thinking that if it was usual for her to go to pub so near to her house, most people on their feet all day would pop home first to change and freshen up, shower, etc. If this was the case, why wasn't she in the pub in the evening? This suggests to me she texted (or was told to text/or was fobbing off) Suzy Cooper she would stay at home (whether she did or not) - and either stayed in the house/or elsewhere in the centre of York of her own volition/or was being held. We know the phone didn't leave York. Was this important because she or her body (apologies) did, and therefore this would stop people panicking about her? I'm not sure now if this is the killer's concern or her own. Was she persuaded of a plan which then turned out to far more sinister? I talked a lot about clothes showing intentions in alleyway guy before as if he was was thought of as a suspect then it's possible to determine that, if he as drunk and less susceptible to cold he would walk funny and have his jacket open on a dark night. His planning/strategy would be off. People would need to help him.

Supposing she was on her way home. What if something happened to her on the way home? What if alleyway guy is unmasked and unhooded as he's not known to the area so doesn't need to cover up? What if he has her keys? Waht is he retrieves her bag with her phone inside it and she is already being held elsewhere? If there is any truth in the mad 'water' message, isn't the nearest stretch of river from her job to her home the Foss? I really don't see why the police aren't connecting the dots. They defintiely have some information that's vital to knowing what went on. I think that info is in the local community, even if the perpetrator might not be. Especially now.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Supposing she was on her way home. What if something happened to her on the way home? What if alleyway guy is unmasked and unhooded as he's not known to the area so doesn't need to cover up? What if he has her keys? What is he retrieves her bag with her phone inside it and she is already being held elsewhere? Perhaps he stops as he sees someone she knows? How would he know people in the area/pub if he's not from there? If there is any truth in the mad 'water' message, isn't the nearest stretch of river from her job to her home the Foss? I really don't see why the police aren't connecting the dots. They definitely have some information that's vital to knowing what went on. I agree witht he police that I think that more info is in the local community though, even if the perpetrator might not be. Especially now.