UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #18

[leuraman]

I have a new potential POI, bear with me while I elaborate. Convicted rapist, released on licence from 7 year sentence following very violent rape of 20 year old woman at 2.15am Feb 2004 in Selby (15 miles from York). Was released in Dec 2008 and then reconvicted in Nov 2009 for attacks from behind including sexual and physical assaults on 2 students in May and June 2009 with one other not proved (14 year old girl on Hob Moor, York). Was at that time living in a Bail Hostel in Boroughbridge Road, ACOMB, York some 2.9 miles from Claudia's home. Both attacks in York, one on Boroughbridge Road, one near Hob Moor. Sentenced to 2 five year jail spells concurrently. Released early again, just to re-offend in Aug/Sept 2013 with attacks on 3 women in York on cycle paths or near a footbridge, attacked from behind but only minor injuries, said to "know centre of York like the back of his hand". Described by Magistrate as "deeply disturbed" and police officer said "I think we have been very lucky he has not progressed to do something worse". Out again since 2018 and had previous convictions for Theft, Burglary and driving offences. Used to live at Milner Street Acomb, 4 miles from Claudia's house. I think he used a bike to attack victims from behind. On sex offenders register and tagged on latest release until June 2023. Cannot use a bike as part of his licence conditions. The latest attack on a 50 year old woman in York has similar MO. I think links to Acomb, the fact that he is violent and attacks women from behind, steals mobiles and bags (thinking about Claudia here), makes him interesting. Dates fit as he was out on licence in March 2009.

Attacker jailed for 12 years

A DANGEROUS York man who sexually and physically attacks women for no apparent reason has been jailed for 12 years.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

Freed rapist is jailed for attacks ANDREW JOHN BAILEY – Selby and York

Am I still swimming against the tide here? Thoughts welcome.

 

[Becci]

Hi, I saw the Arin Stoner thing the other week when looking up the timeline of the police's footage (also availabl ein timestamp order on Youtube) - but Arrin Stoner loses me half an hour in when he goes so forcefully towards Chris Halliwell (also I find the Netflix/channel 5 music in poor taste). Up until that point (and all the rubbish blurry photos), his analysis seems quite even-handed and aware of things we've all discussed. But it's a little too neat to place it all on Chris Halliwell. I'm not saying he didn't do it, but some killers long for infamy and it's abut like with terrorism as even when the main perps have all died they put blame on someone they know had sympathies just to tie everything up with a pretty bow. I think Arrin's contribution is considerable in terms of thinking about and presenting the information all in one place, but there is a tendency towards seeing conclusions where there aren't any. That's the difficulty with this case. I don't think these people ( I think there is more than one) are criminal masterminds. I think something quite terrible has happened and there's been a cover-up by several people. I was interested in the remidner, for instance, that Alleyman comes back each time after about a minute. It made me wonder if he knew Claudia was at home each time? Has he tried the back door, and it was locked each time? Then he sees her leave at the front, as someone may have told him she would? Thinking about it - if she had visited friends in Cheshire met in Cuban holiday ( I refuse to use the phrase 'group of men' as the Mirror seems a bit too keen to cast Claudia in a certain light) - is it possible one of these men foudn out these details of her daily routine? Was Jen there in Cheshire with her? Claudia had worked 12 days in a row and was planning to book a hol with Jen in Cyprus. Is it possible a killer then visited knowing Claudia's routine or thinking Jen would be alone in the house instead/too? I also now have questions about whether something happened to her on the evening of the 18th, or, as footage suggests (with the figure in the far distance) she was followed to work. I still think if the car that pulled up outside her house on the evening of 18th March that had something to do with it. If she was taken, did she grab her bag or discard it in order to show she was taken? Her father being a lawyer for the CPS she perhaps knew of cases in the past where women tried to show where they were? I find it all so confusing.

Ano them blurry photos i couldnt make head nor tail of.
The whole senario.
Not for me this sleuthing haha
I hope you's find answers for the sake of her mum

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I guess CL may have caught a taxi from the back of her house, I wonder whether the police checked all cars leaving Heworth Place after 8pm

The alleyway wasn't wide enough for a taxi. All cars seem to have gone from the front. Reports made include a white van from a 'Concrete Grinding Ltd' in Huddersfield, around 9pm, was it? I looked up all the owners of this company on Companies House and only one seemed the right age to be a perp of Alleyman's age. But why on Earth would a suspect park up outside the house of someone he planned to attack though? It doesn't make sense. On the other hand, someone may have seen the vehicle being parked up outside Claudia's house as an opportunity to conceal a visit or movements outsider her house. I just find all of that difficult to believe. People at the pub or the CCTV on that side would have seen what was going on perhaps. I'm going back to the idea of her having set out early in the morning of the 19th March and someone following her. The Melrosegate sightings may well be legit if that is so, as the timing of her walks is about right. If you remember she took about twenty mins to walk to the post office the day before, and that was half way home. It makes sense she would reach the bridge at around half past. The left-hand smoker could be Halliwell, and is the right build. He just doesn't fit the build of the guy we see in the alleyway, who has a puanch and a check shirt and no hoodie, but a long dark jacket. Also, no smoking and not seemingly the streetwear type - perhaps a bit older, in his 50s? Alleyway guy may be unrelated, but is seemingly acting very suspiciously, so I just don't know. Jo, the friend who gave Claudia a lift on the afternoon of the 18th March was probably trying to be helpful but it also means we don't have any CCTV footage of Claudia that afternoon after the post office - which is why I still feel like that time is unaccounted for until her phone call, and possibly during it: we don't know where she was. Police may be making similar associations and that's why they have a conviction that local people know something.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I have a new potential POI, bear with me while I elaborate. Convicted rapist, released on licence from 7 year sentence following very violent rape of 20 year old woman at 2.15am Feb 2004 in Selby (15 miles from York). Was released in Dec 2008 and then reconvicted in Nov 2009 for attacks from behind including sexual and physical assaults on 2 students in May and June 2009 with one other not proved (14 year old girl on Hob Moor, York). Was at that time living in a Bail Hostel in Boroughbridge Road, ACOMB, York some 2.9 miles from Claudia's home. Both attacks in York, one on Boroughbridge Road, one near Hob Moor. Sentenced to 2 five year jail spells concurrently. Released early again, just to re-offend in Aug/Sept 2013 with attacks on 3 women in York on cycle paths or near a footbridge, attacked from behind but only minor injuries, said to "know centre of York like the back of his hand". Described by Magistrate as "deeply disturbed" and police officer said "I think we have been very lucky he has not progressed to do something worse". Out again since 2018 and had previous convictions for Theft, Burglary and driving offences. Used to live at Milner Street Acomb, 4 miles from Claudia's house. I think he used a bike to attack victims from behind. On sex offenders register and tagged on latest release until June 2023. Cannot use a bike as part of his licence conditions. The latest attack on a 50 year old woman in York has similar MO. I think links to Acomb, the fact that he is violent and attacks women from behind, steals mobiles and bags (thinking about Claudia here), makes him interesting. Dates fit as he was out on licence in March 2009.

Attacker jailed for 12 years

A DANGEROUS York man who sexually and physically attacks women for no apparent reason has been jailed for 12 years.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

Freed rapist is jailed for attacks ANDREW JOHN BAILEY – Selby and York

Am I still swimming against the tide here? Thoughts welcome.

He's definitely a POI, but I'm not seeing any proven murders here. Crimes are horrific and as you say the right area. Suggests he isn't Alleyman (if Alleyman IS involved, we really don't know) though, due to his build and apparent age, which looks younger. Why do they release these guys?!! I feel so lucky to have escaped the clutches of people like this. Things have happened to me, but not in the ways described here. So savage and unpredictable. Those poor women.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Also, I just found this: Missing university student Megan Roberts feared dead as police admit chances of finding her alive are "increasingly remote" Police said there was no connection with Claudia's case, but I find it weird they just throw out the idea she was stalked that got upheld by messages on Twitter. How do you lose a freind, a girl on her own, bladdered, in the middle of the city and not check it out? Some friends, crikey.

 

[BryterLayter]

*Commercial Break*

 

[susie sixpence]

I have a new potential POI, bear with me while I elaborate. Convicted rapist, released on licence from 7 year sentence following very violent rape of 20 year old woman at 2.15am Feb 2004 in Selby (15 miles from York). Was released in Dec 2008 and then reconvicted in Nov 2009 for attacks from behind including sexual and physical assaults on 2 students in May and June 2009 with one other not proved (14 year old girl on Hob Moor, York). Was at that time living in a Bail Hostel in Boroughbridge Road, ACOMB, York some 2.9 miles from Claudia's home. Both attacks in York, one on Boroughbridge Road, one near Hob Moor. Sentenced to 2 five year jail spells concurrently. Released early again, just to re-offend in Aug/Sept 2013 with attacks on 3 women in York on cycle paths or near a footbridge, attacked from behind but only minor injuries, said to "know centre of York like the back of his hand". Described by Magistrate as "deeply disturbed" and police officer said "I think we have been very lucky he has not progressed to do something worse". Out again since 2018 and had previous convictions for Theft, Burglary and driving offences. Used to live at Milner Street Acomb, 4 miles from Claudia's house. I think he used a bike to attack victims from behind. On sex offenders register and tagged on latest release until June 2023. Cannot use a bike as part of his licence conditions. The latest attack on a 50 year old woman in York has similar MO. I think links to Acomb, the fact that he is violent and attacks women from behind, steals mobiles and bags (thinking about Claudia here), makes him interesting. Dates fit as he was out on licence in March 2009.

Attacker jailed for 12 years

A DANGEROUS York man who sexually and physically attacks women for no apparent reason has been jailed for 12 years.

www.yorkpress.co.uk

Freed rapist is jailed for attacks ANDREW JOHN BAILEY – Selby and York

Am I still swimming against the tide here? Thoughts welcome.

Melrosegate bridge is a cycle path not sure it was then.

 

[Tri-Lambda delta]

 

[TooMuchGun]

I'm just going to put another detailed timeline I've found - sorry if it's already been put up. It's just useful to see it all in order: Claudia Lawrence Timeline

these are great for newbies like me Thank u

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I've been looking at disappearances and possible murders of women around the same time as Claudia that follow a similar pattern. I discounted any that included sex workers or people who seemed on the patch of a serial killer in a particular area (such as the Sussex strangler or the known Halliwell cases, or other horrific, well-documented killings specific to a city, especially if it's in the South). The only list I immediately found was of disappearances on Wikipedia, so probably not comprehensive, but still a lot of info to look at. Vicky Glass, although a sex worker, is the first one I found to have gone missing in North Yorks. The police and other commentators think this is Chris Halliwell or Steve Wright. There are quite a few murders of sex workers and younger women covered in the list in the South and South West around this time, and also murders committed by monsters like Ian Huntley and Levi Bellfield, but the next murder in the North which remains unsolved is Sarah Melia in Bolton in January 2008. Her brother was accused but let off and is now estranged from the family. A man wearing a blouson bright red jacket(on CCTV he seems balding and quite skinny in fact, if broad),and was seen on CCTV in the middle of the day walking to her house. Police believe he's the killer but he remains unidentified.The only other one I've found remotely similar to Claudia's is Claire Holland in Liverpool inJune 2012, when she was 32.They've just arrested a guy called Darren Osment for that - and until we know more about him during the trial it will be difficult to tell if he's a serial killer like Halliwell or Wright, or if Claudia's disappearance is due to the community closing down after a terrible accident, a planned attack on her life, or something else. I've got quite depressed sitting with this stuff for the last few hours. Other murders I came across seemed clearly to implicate people already in the person's life. With Vicky Glass, even if it's a serial killer who kills sex workers like Steve Wright, it's known that her killer was 34/38 (in 2000) broad, white, had a mole on his face, and, obviously was a lorry driver. Seems to have things in common with the Sarah Melia killer, but my explorations showed nothing neew in relation to Claudia's disappearance. If Halliwell is a viable suspect, he fits the descriptions and CCTV and profile better. Also, if the guy on CCTV in the Vicky Glass case was 34/38 in 2000, he'd be in the right age range for either Alleyman or the drinkers at the Nags Head, or even the guy in the white jacket we see in the CCTV footage from the night of 18th March. Especially if Halliwell did building work and had someone else's van for the day? My reservation comes in when you consider Halliwell wants to be in some way known as a monster. The real explanation could be local people panicking after someone threatens them if they tell. I'm torn between one of these serial killers and a village secret. It's all horrendous, so apologies for the attempt at 'sorting it' in one afternoon.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

All this evidence against Halliwell also fairly damning: North Yorks Enquirer | Christopher Halliwell: The Secret Murders Part 3 (Disclaimer: I f78£ing hate the tone of these sites, I just found it through Googling, and though the tone is bad the data seems overall good - at a glance).

 

[Blonderabbit]

When Jen King puffs her cheeks - just look at her face immediately before - freeze that frame - she’s thinking back to ten years ago when something happened. It’s a shame you cannot hear the questions. She describes Suzy cooper as a mutual friend after this you can hear her voice breaking - she’s reliving (imo) aftermath. She was my friend…. Our friend friend…. She wasn’t a saint she was a person….Ten years down the line and look at the state of them.

Suzy Cooper and Jen King speaks about their friend Claudia Lawrence...

Suzy Cooper and Jen King speaks about their friend Claudia Lawrence at York Minster on the 10th anniversary of her disappearance on March 18 2009.

www.gettyimages.in

 

[Popejohn3]

When Jen King puffs her cheeks - just look at her face immediately before - freeze that frame - she’s thinking back to ten years ago when something happened. It’s a shame you cannot hear the questions. She describes Suzy cooper as a mutual friend after this you can hear her voice breaking - she’s reliving (imo) aftermath. She was my friend…. Our friend friend…. She wasn’t a saint she was a person….Ten years down the line and look at the state of them.

Suzy Cooper and Jen King speaks about their friend Claudia Lawrence...

Suzy Cooper and Jen King speaks about their friend Claudia Lawrence at York Minster on the 10th anniversary of her disappearance on March 18 2009.

www.gettyimages.in

Two loyal friends playing miss Marple trying to help the police find her killer !
And it’s amazing how they keep their cool with the amount of rubbish people ( here even ) throw at them !
No one perhaps with the exception of her late father worked so hard in order to keep her in the news !

 

[Blonderabbit]

Two loyal friends playing miss Marple trying to help the police find her killer !
And it’s amazing how they keep their cool with the amount of rubbish people ( here even ) throw at them !
No one perhaps with the exception of her late father worked so hard in order to keep her in the news !

With respect , It doesn’t make any sense Pj3. I’ve lost people close to me in various circumstances, in fact everyone I know has lost friends and relatives, it’s a natural part of life. These two appear aged well beyond their years. JK admits she hadn’t known CL for long, similarly Cooper. Would I behave the way they behave in these interviews - absolutely not. If they’re not guilty of anything, even not being totally truthful with the police - then they’ve no worries. Move on, get on with their lives - CL is not coming back.

 

[Pinkizzy]

I've been looking at disappearances and possible murders of women around the same time as Claudia that follow a similar pattern. I discounted any that included sex workers or people who seemed on the patch of a serial killer in a particular area (such as the Sussex strangler or the known Halliwell cases, or other horrific, well-documented killings specific to a city, especially if it's in the South). The only list I immediately found was of disappearances on Wikipedia, so probably not comprehensive, but still a lot of info to look at. Vicky Glass, although a sex worker, is the first one I found to have gone missing in North Yorks. The police and other commentators think this is Chris Halliwell or Steve Wright. There are quite a few murders of sex workers and younger women covered in the list in the South and South West around this time, and also murders committed by monsters like Ian Huntley and Levi Bellfield, but the next murder in the North which remains unsolved is Sarah Melia in Bolton in January 2008. Her brother was accused but let off and is now estranged from the family. A man wearing a blouson bright red jacket(on CCTV he seems balding and quite skinny in fact, if broad),and was seen on CCTV in the middle of the day walking to her house. Police believe he's the killer but he remains unidentified.The only other one I've found remotely similar to Claudia's is Claire Holland in Liverpool inJune 2012, when she was 32.They've just arrested a guy called Darren Osment for that - and until we know more about him during the trial it will be difficult to tell if he's a serial killer like Halliwell or Wright, or if Claudia's disappearance is due to the community closing down after a terrible accident, a planned attack on her life, or something else. I've got quite depressed sitting with this stuff for the last few hours. Other murders I came across seemed clearly to implicate people already in the person's life. With Vicky Glass, even if it's a serial killer who kills sex workers like Steve Wright, it's known that her killer was 34/38 (in 2000) broad, white, had a mole on his face, and, obviously was a lorry driver. Seems to have things in common with the Sarah Melia killer, but my explorations showed nothing neew in relation to Claudia's disappearance. If Halliwell is a viable suspect, he fits the descriptions and CCTV and profile better. Also, if the guy on CCTV in the Vicky Glass case was 34/38 in 2000, he'd be in the right age range for either Alleyman or the drinkers at the Nags Head, or even the guy in the white jacket we see in the CCTV footage from the night of 18th March. Especially if Halliwell did building work and had someone else's van for the day? My reservation comes in when you consider Halliwell wants to be in some way known as a monster. The real explanation could be local people panicking after someone threatens them if they tell. I'm torn between one of these serial killers and a village secret. It's all horrendous, so apologies for the attempt at 'sorting it' in one afternoon.

You should take a short break from the thread if the case is making you feel depressed

 

[Popejohn3]

With respect , It doesn’t make any sense Pj3. I’ve lost people close to me in various circumstances, in fact everyone I know has lost friends and relatives, it’s a natural part of life. These two appear aged well beyond their years. JK admits she hadn’t known CL for long, similarly Cooper. Would I behave the way they behave in these interviews - absolutely not. If they’re not guilty of anything, even not being totally truthful with the police - then they’ve no worries. Move on, get on with their lives - CL is not coming back.

We do not know whether these two have been truthful or not with the police !
The police have never mentioned anyone by name !
And the worry of all this has to take it’s toll as one of them said in the past, if the police think the killer knew Claudia by implication they would know him too !
And now probably suspicious of both friends and strangers.
I made contact ( briefly )with both of them very early on in the investigation!
They always answered my few questions with an other question!
They both complained with fatigue and asked not to be contacted again!
I was disappointed but respected their wishes !
I hope they find some peace very soon bless them .

 

[Blonderabbit]

We do not know whether these two have been truthful or not with the police !
The police have never mentioned anyone by name !
And the worry of all this has to take it’s toll as one of them said in the past, if the police think the killer knew Claudia by implication they would know him too !
And now probably suspicious of both friends and strangers.
I made contact ( briefly )with both of them very early on in the investigation!
They always answered my few questions with an other question!
They both complained with fatigue and asked not to be contacted again!
I was disappointed but respected their wishes !
I hope they find some peace very soon bless them .

Thank you PJ3, I was going to ask some of the questions which you’ve just answered. I must admit at times I feel sorry for both of them, neither I’m sure would have wished for or chosen the life they have now. However Peter L went to his death with the torment of not knowing what happened to his daughter and I’m sure contributed to his short painful life. Claudias Mum,Sister - still live with the very same torment -day in day out. All of this could have been saved if close friends of Claudia were just truthful with the police (no names mentioned) we have talked about them over the threads - there are Poi’s there is evidence, Claudia phone remained close to her home until at least 10am - 4hours after she was due to start work - the avid texter had not used her device for phone calls or texts since 8.23pm on 18th March 2009. The police have thoroughly searched Claudias home - no signs of a struggle etc etc - which then indicates something has taken place in the vicinity of or close by. Cortina said “there was a happening outside her house at 9,01pm” this coincides with her last communication. There was “activity” around her house from 7.15pm on the 18th March 2009 until the early hours of the following morning.

If you listen to the professionals - the killer/s are likely to be known to Claudia.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Thank you PJ3, I was going to ask some of the questions which you’ve just answered. I must admit at times I feel sorry for both of them, neither I’m sure would have wished for or chosen the life they have now. However Peter L went to his death with the torment of not knowing what happened to his daughter and I’m sure contributed to his short painful life. Claudias Mum,Sister - still live with the very same torment -day in day out. All of this could have been saved if close friends of Claudia were just truthful with the police (no names mentioned) we have talked about them over the threads - there are Poi’s there is evidence, Claudia phone remained close to her home until at least 10am - 4hours after she was due to start work - the avid texter had not used her device for phone calls or texts since 8.23pm on 18th March 2009. The police have thoroughly searched Claudias home - no signs of a struggle etc etc - which then indicates something has taken place in the vicinity of or close by. Cortina said “there was a happening outside her house at 9,01pm” this coincides with her last communication. There was “activity” around her house from 7.15pm on the 18th March 2009 until the early hours of the following morning.

If you listen to the professionals - the killer/s are likely to be known to Claudia.

I agree Claudia may have met briefly before or known the killer/s - I just don't think her best friends had anything to do with it. It is still possible they lie wake at night worrying something they did or said led a killer to Claudia. It still wouldn't be their fault. I think anyone could have said something - at Claudia's work, in the pub, or Claudia herself, if she was often on the phone. Who knows if someone wasn't listening to Claudia while she was on the phone to her parents? It's a terrifying thought but someone might have gauged her comings and goings by what she said and then just waited - as we saw with Alleyman. But again, we haven't seen really what happened at the front of Claudia's house. It remains a horrible knot to unpick - and I'd tend to agree with police that someone is holding something back. I just wouldn't blame her friends. They seem kind and involved in her life - not her death.

 

[Popejohn3]

Thank you PJ3, I was going to ask some of the questions which you’ve just answered. I must admit at times I feel sorry for both of them, neither I’m sure would have wished for or chosen the life they have now. However Peter L went to his death with the torment of not knowing what happened to his daughter and I’m sure contributed to his short painful life. Claudias Mum,Sister - still live with the very same torment -day in day out. All of this could have been saved if close friends of Claudia were just truthful with the police (no names mentioned) we have talked about them over the threads - there are Poi’s there is evidence, Claudia phone remained close to her home until at least 10am - 4hours after she was due to start work - the avid texter had not used her device for phone calls or texts since 8.23pm on 18th March 2009. The police have thoroughly searched Claudias home - no signs of a struggle etc etc - which then indicates something has taken place in the vicinity of or close by. Cortina said “there was a happening outside her house at 9,01pm” this coincides with her last communication. There was “activity” around her house from 7.15pm on the 18th March 2009 until the early hours of the following morning.

If you listen to the professionals - the killer/s are likely to be known to Claudia.

I agree and activity could simply be closing time at the NH ?
What time would that have been ? Was it quiz night ? Was there a lock in that night ?!

 

[Blonderabbit]

We do not know whether these two have been truthful or not with the police !
The police have never mentioned anyone by name !
And the worry of all this has to take it’s toll as one of them said in the past, if the police think the killer knew Claudia by implication they would know him too !
And now probably suspicious of both friends and strangers.
I made contact ( briefly )with both of them very early on in the investigation!
They always answered my few questions with an other question!
They both complained with fatigue and asked not to be contacted again!
I was disappointed but respected their wishes !
I hope they find some peace very soon bless them .

With respect- what questions did you ask them?
“They always answered my few questions with an other question!” How did they look to you when you spoke to them? Were they together or separate interviews?