UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #18

[poirotoupierrot]

The police said her phone had pinged in Acomb in the weeks prior to her dissaperence. Her phone was turned off in a 9 mile sector from the Tockwith mast, this includes most of the top side of York including the university and her home, Acomb might be on the cusp of that arc but by no means the centre of it.

Good to know, thanks. Do you work in telecoms/digital stuff? This is good info.

 

[susie sixpence]

Good to know, thanks. Do you work in telecoms/digital stuff? This is good info.

Nope I just read what the police publish about the case.

 

[leuraman]

I think POI is a possibility, but if he is Alleyman must be unrelated as he's a lot older? If Alleyman is completely unrelated, why has he been such a focus of attention for police? Why did the police make comment about the local community? We have missing information here, although I do find you POI compelling and I'm being pulled in different directions a lot. I think the methods and propensities of offenders do matter too. As far as we know, your POI has not killed. We know CH is definitely a repeat offender who plans his attacks. The POI does not. The POI also seems mostly to attack women very late at night (as in the small hours, rather than just before work), whereas CH does late at night and at early commute-times. It could be there's info about the POI I don't know relating to his attacks, but why the comments about the local community by police? There must also be local possible suspects too.

Personally, I think alleyman is no more than a possible witness. Do I remember him being identified by NYP as the Landlord checking on his properties? Perhaps I'm mistaken. My POI is not a killer as far as known but the potential is there even if not the intention. Phone was in Acomb after CL disappeared, but I have no idea if the POI could have hidden a body anywhere. Agree on time of POI attacks, not a perfect match for CL.

 

[leuraman]

Did anyone look at local burials around time of CL disappearance? Bit cliché I know, but a fresh grave is a possible easy place to hide a body without suspicion, it has happened before, saw a recent episode of "When missing turns to murder" where that occurred and was only discovered when an informant came forward.

 

[Popejohn3]

I gave up trying to sleuth but still read things.
Then had an idea lol
So if alleyman was going in his pocket for his phone what would the chances of network providers seeing the actual location activity for that time in general?
Then from numbers provided that might help unravel things & perhaps anyone of interest who crops up could have there fingerprints compared with the unknown ones?
Apologises if this has already been said.

Police have namrs

Halliwell was seen in the early afternoon (18th March the day before) filling his car with petrol with enough petrol/diesel for a significant journey.

if he was seen filling his car up at a petrol station you can bet you bottom dollar it was probably by the petrol guy / woman attendant !
They would be very reluctant to give too much detail because he would know where to find them !Often all alone late at night closing up !
I guess same with shop assistants and pub workers !

 

[Popejohn3]

Where was it switched off, near her home or the University?

It could have been either

 

[Blonderabbit]

Not quite sure why you insist in calling me Suzie. I am not and never have been a Suzie. If you think I'm SC you are a very bad sleuth. Susie Sixpence thank you.

Soz can’t see without my glasses

 

[Tri-Lambda delta]

WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Are these the BEST enhancements in the World? 18/03/2009 Time 21:01:32 to 35 seconds... shows... well... look for yourself. My local Police station is closed so I'm posting this here 1st. I told you all I'd catch them. "Tri-Lambda Delta" does it again. Tell the Police for me. I'm serious, they are seeing this AFTER all of YOU.

 

[Tri-Lambda delta]

Details on the above enhancement:
COMPUTER PROGRAM: Shotcut.
VIDEO: BUS CCTV 18/03/2009 (starts 21:00:59 ends 21:01:45
Rotaton 321.3 degress (this makes the footage level)
Scale: 257%
Size 4934, 2778
Brightness 200%
Contrat: various
Position -2239, -45 (focuses on the rightside of the BUS window as it shows the reflection of what is happening on the left at Claudia's home)
Time 32:17 to 35:10
Images taken from between 21:01:32 and 21:01:35

HERE IS THE LONG-WINDED STORY OF HOW I FOUND IT: I was studying 3 reflections along the whole bus route (of three phantom-like faces in the BUS's front window) I was THINKING the murderer could be a passenger on the BUS (just sharing my crazy train of thought in what I was looking for) and so...I was making composites of the three faces and then decided to SEE what was further-ahead (enroute) by going beyond Claudia's home... (to see if the three faces were still sat on the bus and about to get off up the road) when... VOILA. A woman's arm... and hand... appeared on the right... a reflection of WHAT WAS ON THE LEFT...holding a tall (Italian?) man's arm (this was my first thought when watching the enhanced CCTV in motion)... I scrubbed back and forth and serioulsy thought it was a tall man... (as tall as the Nag's Head manager) but then (as i looked at the stills) I saw a RED-HAIRED WOMAN... had to include prime suspect (only in my mind) who was Beth HORWELL (helped by an AUDI A4 Avant being parked infront of CLAUDIA's GREEN front door...same make and model as the one I identified earlier as being parked outside the Horwell Scrapyard [as seen on Google Street maps still in their database])... I further scrubbed back and saw an uncanny image of JEN KING due to the hair... with the dark line within it... and it having to be flipped to be like the real image etc I then saw Jen... I was screaming for it to be Beth! But the more I tried to see Beth... I went back one single frame and saw YOU Jen. Sorry. Maybe the stylish suit will swing it back towards Beth. Either way... SORRY-BIATCHES !!! Have a nice day.

 

[susie sixpence]

WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Are these the BEST enhancements in the World? 18/03/2009 Time 21:01:32 to 35 seconds... shows... well... look for yourself. My local Police station is closed so I'm posting this here 1st. I told you all I'd catch them. "Tri-Lambda Delta" does it again. Tell the Police for me. I'm serious, they are seeing this AFTER all of YOU.
View attachment 393145

Interesting, very interesting could the JK be CL though?

 

[leuraman]

Details on the above enhancement:
COMPUTER PROGRAM: Shotcut.
VIDEO: BUS CCTV 18/03/2009 (starts 21:00:59 ends 21:01:45
Rotaton 321.3 degress (this makes the footage level)
Scale: 257%
Size 4934, 2778
Brightness 200%
Contrat: various
Position -2239, -45 (focuses on the rightside of the BUS window as it shows the reflection of what is happening on the left at Claudia's home)
Time 32:17 to 35:10
Images taken from between 21:01:32 and 21:01:35

HERE IS THE LONG-WINDED STORY OF HOW I FOUND IT: I was studying 3 reflections along the whole bus route (of three phantom-like faces in the BUS's front window) I was THINKING the murderer could be a passenger on the BUS (just sharing my crazy train of thought in what I was looking for) and so...I was making composites of the three faces and then decided to SEE what was further-ahead (enroute) by going beyond Claudia's home... (to see if the three faces were still sat on the bus and about to get off up the road) when... VOILA. A woman's arm... and hand... appeared on the right... a reflection of WHAT WAS ON THE LEFT...holding a tall (Italian?) man's arm (this was my first thought when watching the enhanced CCTV in motion)... I scrubbed back and forth and serioulsy thought it was a tall man... (as tall as the Nag's Head manager) but then (as i looked at the stills) I saw a RED-HAIRED WOMAN... had to include prime suspect (only in my mind) who was Beth HORWELL (helped by an AUDI A4 Avantbeing parked infront of CLAUDIA's GREEN front door...same make and model as the one I identified earlier as bbeing parked outside the Horwell Scrapyard)... I further scrubbed back and saw an uncanny image of JEN KING due to the hair... with the dark line within it... and it having to be flipped to be like the real image etc I then saw Jen... I was screaming for it to be Beth! But the more I tried to see Beth... I went back one single frame and saw YOU Jen. Sorry. Maybe the stylish suit will swing it back towards Beth. Either way... SORRY-BIATCHES !!! Have a nice day.

Sorry, good effort but just smudges that could as easily be Bigfoot as any particular person.

 

[Tri-Lambda delta]

Sorry, good effort but just smudges that could as easily be Bigfoot as any particular person.

...(Unless your 'AUDI A4 Avant' is also parked outside her house.) As a pencil and ink portrait expert BA Fine Art ... who has actually studied footage of BIGFOOT... your comment is inkeeping with someone who is NOT wanting to be caught. But this isn't personal. You have a nice day now.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Nope I just read what the police publish about the case.

That's a shame. I thought you might be able to provide further info about the phone she had and how it might have fucntioned - how they might have ascertained it was 'deliberately turned off.' How would they know this, rather than it just running out of charge? I don't remember phone connections being that subtle back then? She had a phone with bluetooth but not a full smartphone. I'm wondering where this info came from? Perhaps the Acomb pub was the address identified, but the ping was slightly inaccurate? What the margin for error on that type of phone at that time? Especially with bluetooth, they must have somewhere closer than 9 miles?

 

[poirotoupierrot]

WORLD EXCLUSIVE: Are these the BEST enhancements in the World? 18/03/2009 Time 21:01:32 to 35 seconds... shows... well... look for yourself. My local Police station is closed so I'm posting this here 1st. I told you all I'd catch them. "Tri-Lambda Delta" does it again. Tell the Police for me. I'm serious, they are seeing this AFTER all of YOU.
View attachment 393145

Not sure if we're all seeing the same things here, Tri. Better if we work with facts?

 

[susie sixpence]

That's a shame. I thought you might be able to provide further info about the phone she had and how it might have fucntioned - how they might have ascertaiend it was 'deliberately turned off.' How would they know this, rather than it just running out of charge? I don't remember phone connections being that subtle back then? She had a phone with bluetooth but not a full smartphone. I'm wondering where this info came from?

when a phone runs out of battery it sends a different message to the provider than powering off (explicit detachment) so I understand that Claudia's phone was the latter, it was switched off.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

"The call from her manager placed her handset in a nine-mile area from the university to Tockwith village, including her home in Heworth.

Two hours after the call, at 12.10pm, mobile phone records indicate that Ms Lawrence's phone was switched off, though it is not known where it was at the time.

Experts say the records show her phone sent the network a record - known as an 'explicit detachment' - that it was being powered down before being switched off.

Friends said Ms Lawrence was never without her phone and her father, Peter, said the device was 'always charged up. She used it a great deal for texting.' " Daily Mail, 3rd June 2019

 

[JnRyan]

1. The stranger incident occurred in the short distance between Claudia’s home and the Melrosegate CCTV camera.

2. She was driven past the Melrosegate site by someone giving her a lift, and who picked her up prior to the Melrosegate CCTV camera. We know that she sometimes organised to be picked up by a couple of different colleagues from time to time, and I feel it unlikely that she would simply get into a stranger’s car on a “fancy a lift to work” premise. If she was running late - which she would know by 5.20 - then she could simply contact one or other colleague who lived fairly close by and who would still be at home until about 5.30.

No CCTV footage provided that shows her leaving her home that day. With no signs of a struggle in the home it just appears to be that whatever happened was between home and work that morning. We have footage of the day before on her walk home so the lack of footage going to work concerns me somewhat. (As you stated it might have been held back by LE.) The alleyway camera is to the north of her home, I believe, and she walked south to work. So that camera isn't going to capture her if she walks out the front door.

The walk to work doesn't sound like her normal commute given her car was in the shop. If it wasn't in the shop that long it almost seems like a crime of opportunity (stranger).

I don't know what to think of alleyman. Yes, did act suspicious by stopping when someone crossed his path and I understand LE wanting to find him. But I also wonder if he is completely unrelated to the disappearance. Why not come forward? He is a criminal - casing houses, drug dealer - and always avoids contact with LE because LE would, of course, want to know why he was there to begin with? Speaking of withheld footage, could LE have other footage of this guy in the area previously and acting in a similar suspicious manner?

Tough for me to follow this without the benefit of local or UK news. That is one reason why I only follow about 3 or 4 cases outside the USA.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

The not being charged means to me that that Claudia was either incapacitated, separate from her phone or dead at the time it was switched off. It's also worth considering why someone bothered to switch it off. They must have known that would provide an approximate location, adn they could control that. Letting it drain might have provided either i) A place where Claudia is or ii) a place where the killer hid her things. Switching it off meant a vague location, and they probably burnt it later? So was this a deliberate red herring, or just a resignation to the new reality of being of a murderer when in extremis?

 

[poirotoupierrot]

No CCTV footage provided that shows her leaving her home that day. With no signs of a struggle in the home it just appears to be that whatever happened was between home and work that morning. We have footage of the day before on her walk home so the lack of footage going to work concerns me somewhat. (As you stated it might have been held back by LE.) The alleyway camera is to the north of her home, I believe, and she walked south to work. So that camera isn't going to capture her if she walks out the front door.

The walk to work doesn't sound like her normal commute given her car was in the shop. If it wasn't in the shop that long it almost seems like a crime of opportunity (stranger).

I don't know what to think of alleyman. Yes, did act suspicious by stopping when someone crossed his path and I understand LE wanting to find him. But I also wonder if he is completely unrelated to the disappearance. Why not come forward? He is a criminal - casing houses, drug dealer - and always avoids contact with LE because LE would, of course, want to know why he was there to begin with? Speaking of withheld footage, could LE have other footage of this guy in the area previously and acting in a similar suspicious manner?

Tough for me to follow this without the benefit of local or UK news. That is one reason why I only follow about 3 or 4 cases outside the USA.

Local news is York Press - the town paper - but all the UK papers covered it I think so an easy Google if you specify UK after 'York'. And I agree about Alleyman, whereas he may be significant as a witness I odn't mean to imply only he is the killer by speculation, but the police clearly think he has some info.

We appear to have no CCTV of at the front of the Nags Head pub at night or in the morning, which I find strange, but maybe that was still a bit hit-and-miss in 2009. In our town, we still only have a moving CCTV van passing through, which I find woefully inadequate - if you're being killed you have to chase after the van?!

It all speaks of so much to with difficulties we're having in the UK with under-resourced police (after the government cuts), endemic corruption (Wayne Couzens cover-up, and others), and difficulties helping hard-to-reach youth and mentally unwell people overcome problems before developing terrible psychotic violence.

I think there are also issues around women being controlled and policed but left without support, and then men being allowed to do what the hell they want and that behaviour is allowed to escalate, as we've seen. But it's probably more complicated than that...

 

[poirotoupierrot]

One more thing: we all know that batteries on non-smartphones last longer. What if my theory is correct and, whether it was Alleyman or not, her bag with phone was retrieved, along with whites and [accidentally?] straighteners, to make it appear she had left for work? This would be important to show that could possibly have been someone unknown to her, but perhaps it wasn't? Who would have been able to do this undetected? A woman wouldn't have been noticed as much I don't think. Especially if working with a man, hidden in a car. The circumstances of this may be coercive, who knows?

Deliberately leaving the phone on would place Claudia possibly at home all night, but I don't think she was. I think in the morning whoever was with her ( or not) had her bag [somehow] and phone and was weighing up whether to ditch it or turn off. The centre of York is hardly a metropolis - they'll have known there weren't that many places for the phone activity to register there, especially in 2009. The centre of York is also full of rivers, so even if it was CH he wouldn't have had to bury or burn anyone. Again, this suggests to me a night-time attack/kidnapping.