UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #18

[Blonderabbit]

No CCTV footage provided that shows her leaving her home that day. With no signs of a struggle in the home it just appears to be that whatever happened was between home and work that morning. We have footage of the day before on her walk home so the lack of footage going to work concerns me somewhat. (As you stated it might have been held back by LE.) The alleyway camera is to the north of her home, I believe, and she walked south to work. So that camera isn't going to capture her if she walks out the front door.

The walk to work doesn't sound like her normal commute given her car was in the shop. If it wasn't in the shop that long it almost seems like a crime of opportunity (stranger).

I don't know what to think of alleyman. Yes, did act suspicious by stopping when someone crossed his path and I understand LE wanting to find him. But I also wonder if he is completely unrelated to the disappearance. Why not come forward? He is a criminal - casing houses, drug dealer - and always avoids contact with LE because LE would, of course, want to know why he was there to begin with? Speaking of withheld footage, could LE have other footage of this guy in the area previously and acting in a similar suspicious manner?

Tough for me to follow this without the benefit of local or UK news. That is one reason why I only follow about 3 or 4 cases outside the USA.

Hi if you Google earth the area - you will find Heworth Road and Heworth place - where the alley is accessible from to the rear of Claudias House (please forgive me if I’ve made any mistakes or grammatical errors as have no glasses again) Heworth place consists of maybe 40-60 homes plus there’s limes court which again has many flats . On Heworth Road there is a few shops, plus of course the nags head. My point here is - there will be lots of foot traffic through the day and night. LE have picked 2 instances of 1 man. Yes he stopped in the evening and looked suspicious but he don’t stop in the morning - yet NYP have singled out these two pieces of evidence. They know who he is and if you read the msm articles leading up to the arrests of the 4 - this footage prompted their escalation of the case. This has to be one of the 4 - if you look at the build walk and hairline it can only be 1 man

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Hi if you Google earth the area - you will find Heworth Road and Heworth place - where the alley is accessible from to the rear of Claudias House (please forgive me if I’ve made any mistakes or grammatical errors as have no glasses again) Heworth place consists of maybe 40-60 homes plus there’s limes court which again has many flats . On Heworth Road there is a few shops, plus of course the nags head. My point here is - there will be lots of foot traffic through the day and night. LE have picked 2 instances of 1 man. Yes he stopped in the evening and looked suspicious but he don’t stop in the morning - yet NYP have singled out these two pieces of evidence. They know who he is and if you read the msm articles leading up to the arrests of the 4 - this footage prompted their escalation of the case. This has to be one of the 4 - if you look at the build walk and hairline it can only be 1 man

Who?

 

[poirotoupierrot]

I was going to go to the pharmacy to pick up a prescription but all this talk of night-time and killers has made me want to stay indoors. I'll go tomorrow, in the day. I just feel so sad for her. It would be great if she was safe, but I fear the worst. She couldn't have been quiet this long. How does society make these monster killers? I just don't get it.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

It’s a beautiful place for a murder mystery

Wouldn't be if it was yours.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

This is exactly my point - if you look at the site of the police search and then look at this other location - very close by - its much more accessible - a track down by the side of the stables takes you straight to the wind pump lake and surrounding shooting land. I think if you follow the case then it's good to get a feel for the areas of interest. Personally, having looked, and weighing it up I can't see a perp leaving a body for a dog walker or angler to come upon it easily so I have discounted these sites. Still worth a look. It's a bit of needle in a haystack - unless you have specific info - you cannot justify the resource. There is the army training land close by and also the land between Warthill as you travel up towards Bridlington - up the hill which is densely wooded. I have played it over in my mind "what would I do faced with a body" either in Heworth or at the university. I would be looking at DR - where did he grow up, does he have any hobbies - fishing walking which would give him inspiration for a disposal site.

CH heavily into fishing...

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Regarding the late switch off of the phone:

Did they take a while to find her phone
Were they waiting for the first call or message coming in to check on her.

Once they knew she was being missed, they could then turn her phone off.

I didn't read about Peter L texting her. It was not turning up at the pub for her friend the following night which raised the alarm, as I recall. Or was there another detail I've missed?

 

[susie sixpence]

CH heavily into fishing...

Do you think that is why they searched the Sand Hutton ponds? Or was it because of the scruffy man with a spade reported to Joan early on. There are more fishing ponds there and areas of private woods. Could be the right area just not that pond.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Do you think that is why they searched the Sand Hutton ponds? Or was it because of the scruffy man with a spade reported to Joan early on. There are more fishing ponds there and areas of private woods. Could be the right area just not that pond.

Yes, probably that, but I think they must have had something else too - I remember making a connection to it somehow ages ago when I looked at the case. I honestly can't remember how I arrived there as being a spot for finding Claudia, but it's no small job to do all that work so they must have had something other than speculation to hand. I'm sorry, I've gone a bit archaeological with this thread. Was trying to go back to the beginning and look at all the things everyone came up with. I really should eat. I've only had breakfast. I was working before this. I'll go eat. I got out of control with this yesterday too. I'm bad for that. Once I get a bee in my bonnet I just want to solve it. It's frustrating when we don't have all the info. Videos have been removed from news articles, but that may just be because someone was eliminated from police enquiries, or legitimately had charges dropped even though police suspected involvement. Then again, even speculation ruins lives. I despise anyone who would cover up the killing of someone in this way. There must be some shared culpability. There's silence here, and it's not just lack of information, it's lack of communication, honesty, connection, lack of dots.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Do you think that is why they searched the Sand Hutton ponds? Or was it because of the scruffy man with a spade reported to Joan early on. There are more fishing ponds there and areas of private woods. Could be the right area just not that pond.

Didn't they try a few of the ponds? It was a massive operation. I can't remember why I thought SH ponds was important now - maybe I made the CH connection, but it could have been anyone who liked that area - for fishing - or anything. This does chime with what CH does- picking a secluded place and taking victims there, not exactly a spontaneous decision, but a return to the same place to obscure Claudia. But someone local would have also known where to hide Claudia so she wasn't found. Murderers aren't geniuses, it's just difficult to understand the minds of people making expedient decisions in such extreme situations. Knowledge of the local area is a big advantage when you have to move quickly and lots of people know you and are looking for Claudia.

 

[shadwell]

Do you think that is why they searched the Sand Hutton ponds? Or was it because of the scruffy man with a spade reported to Joan early on. There are more fishing ponds there and areas of private woods. Could be the right area just not that pond.

My guess at the time was that the environmental survey turned up human DNA in the smaller pond.

 

[susie sixpence]

My guess at the time was that the environmental survey turned up human DNA in the smaller pond.

But they found nothing of significance in the large pond. Could she have been moved somewhere close by. CH moved Sian from Savernack forest to white horse hill.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Didn't they try a few of the ponds? It was a massive operation. I can't remember why I thought SH ponds was important now - maybe I made the CH connection, but it could have been anyone who liked that area - for fishing - or anything. This does chime with what CH does- picking a secluded place and taking victims there, not exactly a spontaneous decision, but a return to the same place to obscure Claudia. But someone local would have also known where to hide Claudia so she wasn't found. Murderers aren't geniuses, it's just difficult to understand the minds of people making expedient decisions in such extreme situations. Knowledge of the local area is a big advantage when you have to move quickly and lots of people know you and are looking for Claudia. Perhaps if people don't know you but you know some of the area that too can be an advantage. It goes on. I have to eat. I'll have a break and brb.

 

[shadwell]

But they found nothing of significance in the large pond. Could she have been moved somewhere close by. CH moved Sian from Savernack forest to white horse hill.

Afaik they found nothing of significance in either pond. They also searched the run-off areas around the ponds and found nothing there either.

 

[poirotoupierrot]

My guess at the time was that the environmental survey turned up human DNA in the smaller pond.

Is that true? There was a specific survey? Or do you say that because there's a DEFRA unit close by?

 

[shadwell]

Is that true? There was a specific survey? Or do you say that because there's a DEFRA unit close by?

An environmental survey of the Sand Hutton pits was carried out shortly before the police search, leading to conjecture that the two events were connected.

The innocuous survey that 'sparked search for Claudia Lawrence clues'

North Yorkshire Police are continuing their investigation at Sand Hutton Gravel Pits

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Just before I go, I was intrigued by this review of the Samsung D900. Almost immediately it gets into how long it goes for - 360 hours! - and how you might not know it was there/on. Thicko murderboy may not have even known it was there, an d then on discovering panicked and switched it off...: Samsung D900 review – A Critique – Page 2 – Tarkan's BORED

 

[poirotoupierrot]

Now I've eaten food, I'll finish the thought: due to the peculiarities of the Samsung D900, the phone would have been making lots of noise and lights going on during the last hour of its battery life. It was known for going from appearing fully charged to suddenly warning it would not have charge very soon. If it still had charge, maybe it was within anan the last hour, twenty mins of its battery failing?

If with either the person in possession of the phone or the killer - we don't know if they are the same person yet, so I won't commit - they might have been around other people they knew or Claudia knew, especially in that area of York within that 120 degree azimuth. The phone would have made a lot of noise and lights would have been going off - especially if crucially it was opened after 10am when Claudia's boss left a voice message. Then, for some reason, we don't know if anyone else knew she was missing until the friend in the pub that evening.

Whoever was with the phone may have been forced to switch it off to avoid discovery. If it was just found - and making annoying noises - it surely could have been handed in without reproach? It could also have provided useful info about where it was discovered? So the person who had it must have been implicated by it in some way.

All these things add layers I hadn't thought of before. Something to consider over the weekend, perhaps.

It's also worth knowing details about how the phone doesn't 'say' anything when shut. The reviewer quoted above talks about missed calls, but also how it's perfect for privacy as no-one would know it was even on, let alone receiving calls or texts. People who knew Claudia. who spent time in pubs with her, would know this perhaps. A stranger not well-known to Claudia might not, and feel they were close to being caught out.

 

[Popejohn3]

 

[Popejohn3]

View attachment 393296

How come no one is talking about this clip !?
Has the person circled in green come forward?
Because if not it could easily be Claudia on her way to work on the 19 th ?

 

[Tri-Lambda delta]

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Claudia Lawrence (PHOTO) leaving York University

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Claudia Lawrence (Enhancements) BusCCTV material Police release CCTV footage to help track down Vauxhall van

I wrote 'between 2 women' but the 2nd enanced image above (now with hindsight) shows Claudia between her best friend JK (and JK's partner) PR who appears to be lunging with his back to them both as if to cover anyone seeing what's happening.

This is a repost with all sources included... and the details of how the footage was enhanced is up in a previous post. UK - UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #18