UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #19

[Popejohn3]

At the double decker bus which is about to run him over

So even the bus driver could have remembered something

 

[Pricklykitty]

Whodunnit
Someone on here asked me recently do I think this case will ever be solved? And yes on many occasions especially since Christmas 22 I have thought yes. I’ve been reflecting on the question - what would it take and is it lawfully possible to convict on circumstantial evidence alone and according to Uk law and case history yes it is. So perps and friends of the perps may think - there’s no body, there’s no motive, there’s no scene, however there is evidence - ok circumstantial but it can proceed on that alone. Leurman you feel there’s no evidence re friends of Claudia - there obviously is or the police would have had nothing to put to the cps. Even in the public eye as we have seen over recent days - there is footage and it does show evidence of perps close to Claudias at a critical time - there were witnesses - even on here only a matter of a few weeks ago Cortina stated there was commotion or words to that effect outside Claudias on the evening of the 18th - that information has come from someone local who has witnessed it in my opinion. Alleywayman is one of 4 take your pick!

I wonder if police could put the 4 in the vicinity at the time ( by which I mean anytime after Claudias last phonecall), but the problem being the vicinity also included one of their homes and the local pub? Each of them could admit to being nearby whilst also maintaining they had a legitimate alibi.
Their first problem in my opinion was when the alleyman cctv was found, because by then they had sealed in their stories, none of which included them walking around the block morning/night.

 

[Popejohn3]

I wonder if police could put the 4 in the vicinity at the time ( by which I mean anytime after Claudias last phonecall), but the problem being the vicinity also included one of their homes and the local pub? Each of them could admit to being nearby whilst also maintaining they had a legitimate alibi.
Their first problem in my opinion was when the alleyman cctv was found, because by then they had sealed in their stories, none of which included them walking around the block morning/night.

Good thinking !
But didn’t one of the four go on record and ridiculed the allegations?

 

[Popejohn3]

If the evidence sent to cps include any of these fuzzy pictures we are seeing, no wonder the case was thrown out !
If you ever did jury service ( I have ) these fuzzy pictures won’t be convincing and you’d want to stop the charade and go home !

 

[Pricklykitty]

Good thinking !
But didn’t one of the four go on record and ridiculed the allegations?

Well they would be crazy to go on record and say the allegations had substance!

 

[Popejohn3]

Well they would be crazy to go on record and say the allegations had substance!

They would have a strong alibi and least the one who went public anyway!

 

[leuraman]

Whodunnit
Someone on here asked me recently do I think this case will ever be solved? And yes on many occasions especially since Christmas 22 I have thought yes. I’ve been reflecting on the question - what would it take and is it lawfully possible to convict on circumstantial evidence alone and according to Uk law and case history yes it is. So perps and friends of the perps may think - there’s no body, there’s no motive, there’s no scene, however there is evidence - ok circumstantial but it can proceed on that alone. Leurman you feel there’s no evidence re friends of Claudia - there obviously is or the police would have had nothing to put to the cps. Even in the public eye as we have seen over recent days - there is footage and it does show evidence of perps close to Claudias at a critical time - there were witnesses - even on here only a matter of a few weeks ago Cortina stated there was commotion or words to that effect outside Claudias on the evening of the 18th - that information has come from someone local who has witnessed it in my opinion. Alleywayman is one of 4 take your pick!

Hi, I think you'll find I said there is no evidence of a motive, no links to local drugs gangs etc. If these 4 were in fact the perpetrators then why? That to me is the missing link and perhaps why no charges have stuck. For me now, if you are convinced that these four are responsible, let's stop looking at fuzzy pictures and concentrate instead on motive. The more we know about these four the better, if it means exonerating them, then that would be good too. I am open minded about this but not convinced.

 

[SanT88]

If the evidence sent to cps include any of these fuzzy pictures we are seeing, no wonder the case was thrown out !
If you ever did jury service ( I have ) these fuzzy pictures won’t be convincing and you’d want to stop the charade and go home !

That’s true. I recall the same on jury. There can’t be any doubts really.

 

[Popejohn3]

Please remember: if you KNOW something send details to crime stoppers completely anonymous even through text it’s scrambled !
Don’t pretend to see things hoping the police take it further !
Even if you say so and so told me that so and so did it !
Have the courage to speak up !

 

[Pricklykitty]

They would have a strong alibi and least the one who went public anyway!

Well I think he was trying to be cocky and say he wouldn't have been making a joke if he were involved. However he wouldn't be the first criminal to have involved himself after the fact. Given as we haven't heard more from him or the others I reckon he might have got a bit of a telling off for his comments! I also don't believe police would arrest and submit a case to cps based on a flippant comnent he made.
As far though as an alibi, if you have 4 people, all claiming to have spent the night together, in a place where the tech available in 2009 wouldn't have been able to pinpoint beyond mast locations ( as in now it can show a person moving in real time, then not so much) and no one discrediting their story, it would be difficult for police to knock the alibi. Even more difficult if other people were willing to back them up - like partners of the men just for example.
Given though as police can only give mast data for Claudias phone, I imagine its the same for all the suspects they have, and when those suspects have valid reason for being in the vicinity of claudia, it makes things a little more complicated.

 

[Becci]

So before i thought what i saw looked realistic until i go bk & it doesnt.
Its a waste of time i was taking screenshots to look at but aint doing it again kinda dizzy.

 

[Popejohn3]

Well I think he was trying to be cocky and say he wouldn't have been making a joke if he were involved. However he wouldn't be the first criminal to have involved himself after the fact. Given as we haven't heard more from him or the others I reckon he might have got a bit of a telling off for his comments! I also don't believe police would arrest and submit a case to cps based on a flippant comnent he made.
As far though as an alibi, if you have 4 people, all claiming to have spent the night together, in a place where the tech available in 2009 wouldn't have been able to pinpoint beyond mast locations ( as in now it can show a person moving in real time, then not so much) and no one discrediting their story, it would be difficult for police to knock the alibi. Even more difficult if other people were willing to back them up - like partners of the men just for example.
Given though as police can only give mast data for Claudias phone, I imagine its the same for all the suspects they have, and when those suspects have valid reason for being in the vicinity of claudia, it makes things a little more complicated.

Did they claim they were together ?

 

[Blonderabbit]

They would have a strong alibi and least the one who went public anyway!

With respect what would they need an alibi for? Alibis are only for murderers?

They would have a strong alibi and least the one who went public anyway!

 

[Pinkizzy]

Hi blonderabbit,
Ya know that bus cctv image you uploaded yest & circled a part white, can you see a shady looking person or am i seeing it wrong?

I took another look at the image and the white blob is a reflection from the streetlight in the neighbours window

 

[Blonderabbit]

I took another look at the image and the white blob is a reflection from the streetlight in the neighbours window

Hi I have not drawn attention to a white blob in the bus cctv - I highlighted the man only

 

[Blonderabbit]

Well I think he was trying to be cocky and say he wouldn't have been making a joke if he were involved. However he wouldn't be the first criminal to have involved himself after the fact. Given as we haven't heard more from him or the others I reckon he might have got a bit of a telling off for his comments! I also don't believe police would arrest and submit a case to cps based on a flippant comnent he made.
As far though as an alibi, if you have 4 people, all claiming to have spent the night together, in a place where the tech available in 2009 wouldn't have been able to pinpoint beyond mast locations ( as in now it can show a person moving in real time, then not so much) and no one discrediting their story, it would be difficult for police to knock the alibi. Even more difficult if other people were willing to back them up - like partners of the men just for example.
Given though as police can only give mast data for Claudias phone, I imagine its the same for all the suspects they have, and when those suspects have valid reason for being in the vicinity of claudia, it makes things a little more complicated.

I’m thinking the issue isn’t with the mobile data’s - I am fairly sure the mobile data forms the back bone of the case and evidence against the perps - the issue of proven beyond doubt is the lack of the big three scene, body and motive. I do not think they all claimed to be together in interview..
I keep seeing references to fuzzy photos - I would think this is a statement to discredit and drive our investigation away from looking deeper into the bus cctv.

Digital enhancing has come a long way - packages like photoshop and lightroom for instance have become powerful tools for the graphics market, similar ly these freebie tools for making even the less attractive of us into supermodels. These fuzzy images will in time provide an evidential blueprint of what took place - this is an area I am interested in there is groundbreaking work going on in forensic science taking these images back to almost what an X-ray looks like - taking pictures of perps stripping away the detail and matching up skeletal features and similarities. The bus cctv will probably in the future provide enough evidence to proceed - make no mistake - so to my Fellow Sleuths - crack on - justice is only a click away!

 

[Popejohn3]

I’m thinking the issue isn’t with the mobile data’s - I am fairly sure the mobile data forms the back bone of the case and evidence against the perps - the issue of proven beyond doubt is the lack of the big three scene, body and motive. I do not think they all claimed to be together in interview..
I keep seeing references to fuzzy photos - I would think this is a statement to discredit and drive our investigation away from looking deeper into the bus cctv.

Digital enhancing has come a long way - packages like photoshop and lightroom for instance have become powerful tools for the graphics market, similar ly these freebie tools for making even the less attractive of us into supermodels. These fuzzy images will in time provide an evidential blueprint of what took place - this is an area I am interested in there is groundbreaking work going on in forensic science taking these images back to almost what an X-ray looks like - taking pictures of perps stripping away the detail and matching up skeletal features and similarities. The bus cctv will probably in the future provide enough evidence to proceed - make no mistake - so to my Fellow Sleuths - crack on - justice is only a click away!

I sincerely hope this happens sooner rather then later !

 

[leuraman]

I’m thinking the issue isn’t with the mobile data’s - I am fairly sure the mobile data forms the back bone of the case and evidence against the perps - the issue of proven beyond doubt is the lack of the big three scene, body and motive. I do not think they all claimed to be together in interview..
I keep seeing references to fuzzy photos - I would think this is a statement to discredit and drive our investigation away from looking deeper into the bus cctv.

Digital enhancing has come a long way - packages like photoshop and lightroom for instance have become powerful tools for the graphics market, similar ly these freebie tools for making even the less attractive of us into supermodels. These fuzzy images will in time provide an evidential blueprint of what took place - this is an area I am interested in there is groundbreaking work going on in forensic science taking these images back to almost what an X-ray looks like - taking pictures of perps stripping away the detail and matching up skeletal features and similarities. The bus cctv will probably in the future provide enough evidence to proceed - make no mistake - so to my Fellow Sleuths - crack on - justice is only a click away!

I hope you are right.

 

[Pricklykitty]

Did they claim they were together ?

Sorry for any confusion. The post was a continuation on the topic of people having legitimate reasons to be in the area, and how simple it would then be to create a legitimate sounding and difficult to disprove alibi. I didn't mean it as that was how it happened for those 4. The same could apply to anyone who had a reason to be in Heworth. If you want to think it was a mystery boyfriend or a total stranger, if they had a reason to be in the vicinity of claudia's home, they had no reason to worry about placing themselves in another location because they had reason to be there. Thats the bit that really does apply certain poi's in particular. Hope that makes better sense of what I meant

 

[Blonderabbit]

I hope you are right.

Skeletal data is as unique as dna or finger prints - deformities, broken bones fractures etc can be seen using this process. So take alleyman for example - he looks to have a bit of a limp - this could be muscular or it could be skeletal data stripped back on these images can prove beyond any doubt. This process can make even the fuzziest of image become the evidential key.