UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #3

[Popejohn3]

B

it like the Stephen Lawrence case then @Popejohn3

I did not follow that case very closely

 

[MajorLang]

I did not follow that case very closely

They got them in the end and they were like in Claudia the suspects who lorded it around and smirked at the police

 

[moonsafari]

@moonsafari Need to get some more detail on who is in the picture attached with their back to camera in Dark T shirt and
Who is guy in white shirt who looks like he is behind bar but probably in front of bar socialising.

I Know who the dancing couple are.

Also, were there particular nights that Lock-ins occured-Weekends or were there also some on "School nights"

Be great if you could take a look at this Pic

In the photo I see George (white shirt), Steve in black and Jen stood in between them. Lee is dancing up front with an older lady I don't recognise but I'm pretty sure it's not ex-wife Beth. Perhaps a relative?

Not sure about this regular takeaways at Claudia's after lock-ins malarkey. From what I remember they usually ordered takeaways to the pub or someone walked to wherever (not too many open late within reasonable walking distance from NH) and returned.

Barman Dave - about 5ft9, strawberry blonde balding hair, squint or a glass eye, sizeable beer gut, noticeable limp, Tyneside accent

Jim Melson - about 5ft6 or below, stout, heavily balding brown hair, monk style, less noticeable limp. I did at one point wonder if one of the CCTV men was him. Dave too.

Lock-ins were Fri, Sat and the occasional Sunday whenever people were visiting. The odd weekday night too which would often coincide with a music event (Dunwells and The Two Bobs usually played)

 

[MajorLang]

In the photo I see George (white shirt), Steve in black and Jen stood in between them. Lee is dancing up front with an older lady I don't recognise but I'm pretty sure it's not ex-wife Beth. Perhaps a relative?

Not sure about this regular takeaways at Claudia's after lock-ins malarkey. From what I remember they usually ordered takeaways to the pub or someone walked to wherever (not too many open late within reasonable walking distance from NH) and returned.

Barman Dave - about 5ft9, strawberry blonde balding hair, squint or a glass eye, sizeable beer gut, noticeable limp, Tyneside accent

Jim Melson - about 5ft6 or below, stout, heavily balding brown hair, monk style, less noticeable limp. I did at one point wonder if one of the CCTV men was him. Dave too.

Lock-ins were Fri, Sat and the occasional Sunday whenever people were visiting. The odd weekday night too which would often coincide with a music event (Dunwells and The Two Bobs usually played)

Thanks @moonsafari that's cleared up now-I always thought that Steve Sammons was smaller than the guy in Black T shirt and Blonde.
George looked different here. So Jen is the girl in red top flashing her shoulder?
It's probably difficult to make out who the person between Steve and the bar is as you can barely see their hair.
Yes, Lee looks quite frail in this picture and Beth is younger than this I believe.Lee also looked older than that if his press photos.
That's really helpful thanks.

 

[moonsafari]

Thanks @moonsafari that's cleared up now-I always thought that Steve Sammons was smaller than the guy in Black T shirt and Blonde.
George looked different here. So Jen is the girl in red top flashing her shoulder?
It's probably difficult to make out who the person between Steve and the bar is as you can barely see their hair.
Yes, Lee looks quite frail in this picture and Beth is younger than this I believe.Lee also looked older than that if his press photos.
That's really helpful thanks.

We've been over this brother I'm not sure who red top person is. Could be Suzy or a member of staff. Anyway I'll keep checking the forum but anymore flippant comments and I won't add any more. All I can hope is that stupid devils - black, white, male, female, young, old etc etc - continue to reveal themselves.

 

[Popejohn3]

We've been over this brother I'm not sure who red top person is. Could be Suzy or a member of staff. Anyway I'll keep checking the forum but anymore flippant comments and I won't add any more. All I can hope is that stupid devils - black, white, male, female, young, old etc etc - continue to reveal themselves.

I was told that Claudia was in this picture but not sure how reliable the informant was.
There was st least one more person there ... the photographer !

 

[moonsafari]

I was told that Claudia was in this picture but not sure how reliable the informant was.
There was st least one more person there ... the photographer !

Yes I know it might be. You can speak on what you saw w/out revealing names etc

 

[MajorLang]

We've been over this brother I'm not sure who red top person is. Could be Suzy or a member of staff. Anyway I'll keep checking the forum but anymore flippant comments and I won't add any more. All I can hope is that stupid devils - black, white, male, female, young, old etc etc - continue to reveal themselves.

@moonsafari Who has been making flippant comments?

 

[Pinkizzy]

We've been over this brother I'm not sure who red top person is. Could be Suzy or a member of staff. Anyway I'll keep checking the forum but anymore flippant comments and I won't add any more. All I can hope is that stupid devils - black, white, male, female, young, old etc etc - continue to reveal themselves.

Whats going on? Is someone harassing you?

 

[Popejohn3]

Yes I know it might be. You can speak on what you saw w/out revealing names etc

I wish I could but fear not we’ve got their attention at last ...!

 

[MajorLang]

How is it that our security services are permitted to "waterboard" suspected terrorists but we can't do the same to those who refuse to speak about a murder. Particularly when Claudia probably met her Death by drowning or far worse?

 

[moonsafari]

Hello all, I’m new to this thread but have had an interest in the case for many years. Have been enjoying reading all your great posts.

I’d like to know if anyone has any thoughts on the focus car that braked sharply outside CL house that morning ? I think out of all the sightings, cctv images, this is the most prominent. Why would someone suddenly break right outside her house at that time of morning. The timeline also matches with her leaving for work . Was it her lift or someone suddenly spotting her?

Ford Focus CCTV:
Collecting/dropping her off?
Backing into driveway on HR?
Braking due to something/someone in the road?
Turning into NH carpark?
Slowing down in anticipation of traffic lights (was driving at speed)?
Main road cam you can see 46 HR so I doubt it

I will say if it was a traffic light thing it could be someone from god knows where shortcutting through the city to the otherside of the ring road, which might explain why they never came forward.

I'm not sure what time Jim arrived in the mornings. Bear in mind Ray cooked breakfast and must have been awake before 6am, and breakfast is usually served from 7am onwards? Depending on the time, is it plausible he was up at 5am? Making him a key potential witness. Presumably if the Ford was Jim arriving, he had a black Megane but had to sell it due to money problems, at a time to suggest Ray had a day off or was on holiday, police would have ruled the car out. I will say Jim and Ray went way back, and those two more than most could be trusted cahoots, but what motive? Financial is all I can think of and I doubt he and Claudia were having an affair, but how good could a missing woman and implicated pub be for business? That said, York is famous for ghosts and grizzly tales. ML said DR owned York/London dungeon at one point? Claudia's disappearance does have the makings of, indeed is, a modern day mystery......

 

[Popejohn3]

I think you find that water boarding is illegal in the UK

 

[MajorLang]

Ford Focus CCTV:
Collecting/dropping her off?
Backing into driveway on HR?
Braking due to something/someone in the road?
Turning into NH carpark?
Slowing down in anticipation of traffic lights (was driving at speed)?
Main road cam you can see 46 HR so I doubt it

I will say if it was a traffic light thing it could be someone from god knows where shortcutting through the city to the otherside of the ring road, which might explain why they never came forward.

I'm not sure what time Jim arrived in the mornings. Bear in mind Ray cooked breakfast and must have been awake before 6am, and breakfast is usually served from 7am onwards? Depending on the time, is it plausible he was up at 5am? Making him a key potential witness. Presumably if the Ford was Jim arriving, he had a black Megane but had to sell it due to money problems, at a time to suggest Ray had a day off or was on holiday, police would have ruled the car out. I will say Jim and Ray went way back, and those two more than most could be trusted cahoots, but what motive? Financial is all I can think of and I doubt he and Claudia were having an affair, but how good could a missing woman and implicated pub be for business? That said, York is famous for ghosts and grizzly tales. ML said DR owned York/London dungeon at one point? Claudia's disappearance does have the makings of, indeed is, a modern day mystery......

@moonsafari Not me on the London / York Dungeon.
DR owned and still does a UPVC business-YO1.
Someone else suggested that the Maroon car spotted in Heworth Place on Google with the YO1 personalised plate may have been his?

 

[MajorLang]

I think you find that water boarding is illegal in the UK

@Popejohn3 Yes it is illegal. But is used all of the same.

I think you find that water boarding is illegal in the UK

So is exceeding the speed limit and murder @Popejohn3

 

[MajorLang]

Ford Focus CCTV:
Collecting/dropping her off?
Backing into driveway on HR?
Braking due to something/someone in the road?
Turning into NH carpark?
Slowing down in anticipation of traffic lights (was driving at speed)?
Main road cam you can see 46 HR so I doubt it

I will say if it was a traffic light thing it could be someone from god knows where shortcutting through the city to the otherside of the ring road, which might explain why they never came forward.

I'm not sure what time Jim arrived in the mornings. Bear in mind Ray cooked breakfast and must have been awake before 6am, and breakfast is usually served from 7am onwards? Depending on the time, is it plausible he was up at 5am? Making him a key potential witness. Presumably if the Ford was Jim arriving, he had a black Megane but had to sell it due to money problems, at a time to suggest Ray had a day off or was on holiday, police would have ruled the car out. I will say Jim and Ray went way back, and those two more than most could be trusted cahoots, but what motive? Financial is all I can think of and I doubt he and Claudia were having an affair, but how good could a missing woman and implicated pub be for business? That said, York is famous for ghosts and grizzly tales. ML said DR owned York/London dungeon at one point? Claudia's disappearance does have the makings of, indeed is, a modern day mystery......

In all of the accounts of the Nags head and its clientele, AC appears to be the one that little is known about. He steers away from social media, unlike many of the others who continue with it.

Is it true to say that Claudia was most aware that he could be quite nasty if pushed or do I have this wrong?

 

[moonsafari]

Revise that another possibility could be: Ray was openly gay. Was married father Jim and he in a secret sexual relationship? Did Claudia see something one morning/night? I hope not and doubt this is true but could she have been blackmailing them? If so she probably hadn't told anyone else. George and Jim had a difficult relationship, I know this to be true, could there perhaps instead have been leveraging to oust Jim from the business? Claudia maybe saw something, and they saw her, she told George, he without her knowing tried to blackmail Jim? Jim responds by disappearing Claudia, and George coming forward about the blackmail would ruin his reputation and potentially make him liable to stand trial for blackmail anyway? Puts a whole new spin on that Heimlich Manoeuvre on a bus article.

 

[Yozzer]

Error

 

[moonsafari]

In all of the accounts of the Nags head and its clientele, AC appears to be the one that little is known about. He steers away from social media, unlike many of the others who continue with it.

Is it true to say that Claudia was most aware that he could be quite nasty if pushed or do I have this wrong?

Like I said I liked him least. He used to insult her and as expressed this was met with passive silence by friends within earshot

 

[MajorLang]

Ford Focus CCTV:
Collecting/dropping her off?
Backing into driveway on HR?
Braking due to something/someone in the road?
Turning into NH carpark?
Slowing down in anticipation of traffic lights (was driving at speed)?
Main road cam you can see 46 HR so I doubt it

I will say if it was a traffic light thing it could be someone from god knows where shortcutting through the city to the otherside of the ring road, which might explain why they never came forward.

I'm not sure what time Jim arrived in the mornings. Bear in mind Ray cooked breakfast and must have been awake before 6am, and breakfast is usually served from 7am onwards? Depending on the time, is it plausible he was up at 5am? Making him a key potential witness. Presumably if the Ford was Jim arriving, he had a black Megane but had to sell it due to money problems, at a time to suggest Ray had a day off or was on holiday, police would have ruled the car out. I will say Jim and Ray went way back, and those two more than most could be trusted cahoots, but what motive? Financial is all I can think of and I doubt he and Claudia were having an affair, but how good could a missing woman and implicated pub be for business? That said, York is famous for ghosts and grizzly tales. ML said DR owned York/London dungeon at one point? Claudia's disappearance does have the makings of, indeed is, a modern day mystery......

I have some photos of a Megane but don't want to post on here due to Registration plates and privacy. The same one is in my Blog though with Reg obscured