UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #8

[Popejohn3]

But he came back and then she goes?

Are you implying she went to the south of France to hide ?
No no just a joke !

 

[Popejohn3]

But he came back and then she goes?

Are you implying she went to the south of France to hide ?
No no just a joke !

But he came back and then she goes?

where was his car when he went away ?
Was Claudia looking after it for awhile ?

 

[MajorLang]

I was very impressed with the bbc coverage that year .

@Popejohn3
That's the sort of statement Jimey Saville would come out with

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Claudia's father:
I am excited about having the opportunity to do more travelling especially to France and Italy and singing is a huge part of my life both with the York Musical Society and Missing People's Choir with lots of events planned for the future. I have also become a Guide showing visitors around places of interest* and historic buildings so I will continue to be very busy!
Peter Lawrence From Ware & Kay Solicitors Retires After 47 Years

*where young ladies went missing years ago?

 

[Yozzer]

"Who is this-Is this you"
When police made this appeal did they actually expect to get anyone stepping forward and would you be able to identify even yourself from this well disguised footage still? (Attached)
In a similar appeal at Tang Hall Co-oP and of the guy in the bus. No effort has been invested in disguising these characters.
I hear "evidence preservation" being shouted as the excuse for Alleymans photo being disguised but I hear silence when it comes to the other two sets of images-As @Yozzer states Bus man came forward to identify himself, we are told by police. But the bus times in cctv are in fact different times by 20 minutes and 9seconds
He boards the bus at 05:19 and it takes 20 minutes and 9 seconds for him to by a ticket as can be seen in attachments. Most likely a 9 second purchase.
The time stamp has been messed with-Again.
I have checked clearer images of these bus photos and there is definitely a discrepancy.
So why were police so keen to disguise to protect one image but so blatantly keen to show clear facial images of others to bring them forward.
And why the time stamp variance.

@MajorLang I know you are very knowledgeable about cctv and I want to credit the work you have done on the case as research takes time, I know.

I take a more relaxed view of the issues you raise above (perhaps naively, I admit). I am certainly no technical expert but try to compensate by using common sense, logic and deduction, with varying degrees of success. So for what it's worth, this is my take:
Firstly, the grainy images of alley man. Lime Court cctv cameras are located in high positions so would be inaccessible for regular cleaning - perhaps an annual service at most. They were installed in 2004 and in March, when the image was captured, would likely be covered in a layer of grime, cobwebs and dead insects. The camera spec used in Lime Court was for 'low risk public areas' according to York.gov planning site, which seems ironic now. They are just not very sophisticated machines and I believe all the anomalies which are not obvious pixellations can be explained by the above.

On the other hand, images from the indoor equipment (Co-op, Bus) are sharper. The difference in image quality between the 1st/2nd bus image might be due to vibration. If you study the 1st bus image closely, you will see that the digits 3 and 9 are distorted(as is everything else) but it is possible to identify them as a 3 & 9 by looking at those numbers in the date, further along. So the 1st image was taken at 05.39.41 which is 5 seconds before the clearer 2nd image.

 

[Yozzer]

View attachment 247082
View attachment 247078For those without the book .incidentally be advised that if you buy the book 35% of royalties go to missing people charity !
I hope this extract makes it clear which is left and which is right! Not like some ‘weighted’ investigations where the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing !

What's all this about left and right?

 

[Yozzer]

@Popejohn3
That's the sort of statement Jimey Saville would come out with

 

[MajorLang]

@MajorLang I know you are very knowledgeable about cctv and I want to credit the work you have done on the case as research takes time, I know.

I take a more relaxed view of the issues you raise above (perhaps naively, I admit). I am certainly no technical expert but try to compensate by using common sense, logic and deduction, with varying degrees of success. So for what it's worth, this is my take:
Firstly, the grainy images of alley man. Lime Court cctv cameras are located in high positions so would be inaccessible for regular cleaning - perhaps an annual service at most. They were installed in 2004 and in March, when the image was captured, would likely be covered in a layer of grime, cobwebs and dead insects. The camera spec used in Lime Court was for 'low risk public areas' according to York.gov planning site, which seems ironic now. They are just not very sophisticated machines and I believe all the anomalies which are not obvious pixellations can be explained by the above.

On the other hand, images from the indoor equipment (Co-op, Bus) is sharper. The difference in image quality between the 1st/2nd bus image might be due to vibration. If you study the 1st bus image closely, you will see that the digits 3 and 9 are distorted(as is everything else) but it is possible to identify them as a 3 & 9 by looking at those numbers in the date, further along. So the 1st image was taken at 05.39.41 which is 5 seconds before the clearer 2nd image.

@Yozzer Agree with everything you say but why ask
"Who is this-Is this you" Other than lazy policing?

 

[Yozzer]

@Yozzer Agree with everything you say but why ask
"Who is this-Is this you" Other than lazy policing?

What would you have chosen instead?
Trying to think like a psychologist....are they trying to normalise the images (Is this you?) to plant the idea that it could simply be a law abiding citizen going about their daily business; so come and talk to us and just explain your actions so we can eliminate you from the enquiry...just routine etc.)? Drawing in the over-confident suspect perhaps. Rather than 'Who is this-you're nicked'. IMO

 

[Popejohn3]

"Who is this-Is this you"
When police made this appeal did they actually expect to get anyone stepping forward and would you be able to identify even yourself from this well disguised footage still? (Attached)
In a similar appeal at Tang Hall Co-oP and of the guy in the bus. No effort has been invested in disguising these characters.
I hear "evidence preservation" being shouted as the excuse for Alleymans photo being disguised but I hear silence when it comes to the other two sets of images-As @Yozzer states Bus man came forward to identify himself, we are told by police. But the bus times in cctv are in fact different times by 20 minutes and 9seconds
He boards the bus at 05:19 and it takes 20 minutes and 9 seconds for him to by a ticket as can be seen in attachments. Most likely a 9 second purchase.
The time stamp has been messed with-Again.
I have checked clearer images of these bus photos and there is definitely a discrepancy.
So why were police so keen to disguise to protect one image but so blatantly keen to show clear facial images of others to bring them forward.
And why the time stamp variance.

Yes I’m certain the allyman can and most probably has recognised himself !
I gave example of when I was just a dot on a hot sunny day on Weymouth beach .There were 1000’s if people there and I spotted center fold probably ten years later in the times supplement !
Unless of course you happen to be drunk and don’t remember the occasion.

 

[Popejohn3]

What's all this about left and right?

My extract from Gone was posted as a reply to Mooonsafar’s post !
In the book’s conclusion Neil root says on page 269
‘Claudia would almost definitely have stayed on the right side of the road,as she would have no reason to walk down Meltosgate on the left ‘

 

[Yozzer]

Yes I’m certain the allyman can and most probably has recognised himself !
I gave example of when I was just a dot on a hot sunny day on Weymouth beach .There were 1000’s if people there and I spotted center fold probably ten years later in the times supplement !
Unless of course you happen to be drunk and don’t remember the occasion.

If the man was ID'd, e.g. by a local following that Heworth Place campaign, there is no way he could fail to remember being there when presented with those 2 images so either he is playing the game of 'you prove it's me because I'm telling you I was at home with my wife and she is backing me' or he has come up with a 'plausible' reason for being there at those particular times.

 

[keep-it-real]

If the man was ID'd, e.g. by a local following that Heworth Place campaign, there is no way he could fail to remember being there when presented with those 2 images so either he is playing the game of 'you prove it's me because I'm telling you I was at home with my wife and she is backing me' or he has come up with a 'plausible' reason for being there at those particular times.

Or hes not local.. therefore the locals wouldnt recognise him and anyone that potentially could would dismiss the possibility as the person they knew lived miles away from York

I dont live locally and the first time I time I became interested in the Claudia Lawrence case was in Dec 2019 after watching the 10th anniversary programme.
There must be thousand of people like me that have never seen most of the content of this case crimewatch is a national tv programme.. but I didnt watch it.
just thought it was worth mentioning

 

[Popejohn3]

Or hes not local.. therefore the locals wouldnt recognise him and anyone that potentially could would dismiss the possibility as the person they knew lived miles away from York

I dont live locally and the first time I time I became interested in the Claudia Lawrence case was in Dec 2019 after watching the 10th anniversary programme.
There must be thousand of people like me that have never seen most of the content of this case crimewatch is a national tv programme.. but I didnt watch it.
just thought it was worth mentioning

Absolutely this can easily be the case .
Anyone younger than 30 would most probably been at school when the news broke !
Most people where I live have never even heard of Claudia or have forgotten about her bless her.
I know this is something that her family and friends do not want to hear but ...

 

[Yozzer]

Or hes not local.. therefore the locals wouldnt recognise him and anyone that potentially could would dismiss the possibility as the person they knew lived miles away from York

I dont live locally and the first time I time I became interested in the Claudia Lawrence case was in Dec 2019 after watching the 10th anniversary programme.
There must be thousand of people like me that have never seen most of the content of this case crimewatch is a national tv programme.. but I didnt watch it.
just thought it was worth mentioning

The reason I believe he is local is because when a man was arrested days after NYP did the CCTV campaign in Heworth Place in 2015, a couple of reputable journalists said the arrest of the local man was directly linked to that event. 3 others were also arrested on suspicion of murder (all linked with the pub) but as we know, in 2016 the CPS said there was insufficient evidence to press charges.

 

[Popejohn3]

The reason I believe he is local is because when a man was arrested days after NYP did the CCTV campaign in Heworth Place in 2015, a couple of reputable journalists said the arrest of the local man was directly linked to that event. 3 others were also arrested on suspicion of murder (all linked with the pub) but as we know, in 2016 the CPS said there was insufficient evidence to press charges.

And none I presume matched the cig dna !

 

[Yozzer]

And none I presume matched the cig dna !

Smoking a cigarette in her car does not necessarily make the smoker a murderer and we know Claudia had lots of male friends/associates. Having the cctv evidence of this person who has purportedly been identified and arrested on suspicion of murder is on a different level altogether. It puts him in the right place at the right times and his behaviour was highly suspicious. He was known to have multiple links with the victim and there comes a point when Occam's Razor should be applied.
Now they need someone to break the code of silence.

 

[Popejohn3]

Smoking a cigarette in her car does not necessarily make the smoker a murderer and we know Claudia had lots of male friends/associates. Having the cctv evidence of this person who has purportedly been identified and arrested on suspicion of murder is on a different level altogether. It puts him in the right place at the right times and his behaviour was highly suspicious. He was known to have multiple links with the victim and there comes a point when Occam's Razor should be applied.
Now they need someone to break the code of silence.

Yes I agree...the cat did it !

 

[Popejohn3]

Smoking a cigarette in her car does not necessarily make the smoker a murderer and we know Claudia had lots of male friends/associates. Having the cctv evidence of this person who has purportedly been identified and arrested on suspicion of murder is on a different level altogether. It puts him in the right place at the right times and his behaviour was highly suspicious. He was known to have multiple links with the victim and there comes a point when Occam's Razor should be applied.
Now they need someone to break the code of silence.

Assuming that many in the NH had something to do with her disappearance is definitely not keeping it simple !

 

[Yozzer]

Assuming that many in the NH had something to do with her disappearance is definitely not keeping it simple !

The 4 arrested men were inter-related. There was more to those arrests than being a NH regular and there is plenty of properly researched evidence from a range of reputable sources out there to support this. I'm not going to list it all - it's out there. Walking around on a street does not make that person (cctv man) a killer, but linked with other known facts, plus blatant lying when it was known they (more than 1) were more than just friends, loitering in a suspicious manner on 2 occasions near the victim's home at key times is more than just coincidence. I suspect one or two may have been dragged into this by association but between them lies the truth. They clearly had no respect for CL, running bets on who would be arrested next for their murdered so-called friend - must be as hard as nails.