UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, York University, 18 March 2009 - Chef - #2

[dotr]

Sorry if already posted..
‘Claudia’s law’ to help families of missing people
Ms Lawrence has not been seen since March 18 2009.

Police believe the 35-year-old from York was murdered, although no body has ever been found.

Peter Lawrence holds a photograph of his daughter Claudia (Danny Lawson/PA)
“Claudia’s law” creates a legal status of guardian of the affairs of a missing person, allowing families to act in their best interests after they have disappeared for 90 days or longer.

It will mean families can suspend direct debits for bills and make mortgage payments.

Previously, families could only take over the financial affairs of a missing person if they were declared dead.

Known as the Guardianship (Missing Person’s) Act 2017, the regulations will come into force on July 31.

Ms Lawrence’s father Peter – who has campaigned for change since his daughter’s disappearance – and charity Missing People backed the move, the Ministry of Justice (MoJ) said.

One less burden at a time when families are at their emotional lowest ebb will help enormously

 

[MajorLang]

He's not on Heworth Rd. but about 10 mins walk away. I can't disclose it on here because Dai Malyn warned people not to reveal any identifying info. Sorry.

There are 'friends' and there are drinking buddies. I see SC has moved away from Heworth altogether. She seems to have separated herself away from that scene.

@Yozzer And always thought that she was very genuine, different to many of others named.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

From Pinkizzie's link..
Claudia Lawrence police seek two men seen on CCTV
Interesting possibility, female? , imo.

The second man sought by police, seen here walking past a Costcutter shop in Heworth Road. Photograph: North Yorkshire police/PA

CCTV footage of a man entering Lime Court, off Heworth Road, the morning after Claudia Lawrence was last seen. Photograph: North Yorkshire police/PA

I've never seen the pic of Costcutter shop-man. Interesting. For me it looks like a male teenager, maybe too big, too beefy for his age (guessing only, a feeling so-to-say). Perhaps I will have a look on the hairstyle in 2009 ... Do I see glasses?

 

[Pinkizzy]

I've never seen the pic of Costcutter shop-man. Interesting. For me it looks like a male teenager, maybe too big, too beefy for his age (guessing only, a feeling so-to-say). Perhaps I will have a look on the hairstyle in 2009 ... Do I see glasses?

Here is another white jumper man at 5am, it may be the same white jumper man seen at 7pm the previous evening

 

[moonsafari]

View attachment 191929

Here is another white jumper man at 5am, it may be the same white jumper man seen at 7pm the previous evening

I've never seen the pic of Costcutter shop-man. Interesting. For me it looks like a male teenager, maybe too big, too beefy for his age (guessing only, a feeling so-to-say). Perhaps I will have a look on the hairstyle in 2009 ... Do I see glasses?

Costcutter CCTV person looks like they're wearing either a rucksack beneath their jacket or are hiding something.

 

[MajorLang]

Costcutter CCTV person looks like they're wearing either a rucksack beneath their jacket or are hiding something.

@moonsafari
Yes I agree and that is why she (and it is a she) is wearing larger clothes. They look big on her

The giveaway is the Brsnded jacket it's a "stone Island" with the sew in patch worn by many football supporters.

They are light person seen in both Evening and morning CCTVs. In the morning CCTVs when on opposite side of road to Claudia's, she was carrying a white bag / carrier bag. The shot outside Cost Cutters doesn't show this bag because it could be obscured from view ?

 

[Officer Dibble]

@Pinkizzy Looking close up at this image it could be a woman with shorter / dark / tied back hair
Also white Jacket is a size or two too big and pants are baggy. Suggesting woman in mans clothes ?

Good suggestion here

 

[moonsafari]

@moonsafari
Yes I agree and that is why she (and it is a she) is wearing larger clothes. They look big on her

The giveaway is the Brsnded jacket it's a "stone Island" with the sew in patch worn by many football supporters.

They are light person seen in both Evening and morning CCTVs. In the morning CCTVs when on opposite side of road to Claudia's, she was carrying a white bag / carrier bag. The shot outside Cost Cutters doesn't show this bag because it could be obscured from view ?

Obscured from view, or if they were only aware of Costcutter cameras perhaps that's what the back bulge is. I wouldn't say I think it's a woman most likely but I do think this person could be wearing a wig.

 

[Officer Dibble]

@Yozzer Re your point on CCTV. I agree and so I just took a look at both Evening and Morning Dark and Light man CCTVs
Firstly some notes about CCTVs
The morning CCTV was first launched by NYP on 15th May 2015. Strange that this was almost 3 months after Claudia had gone missing as today that would be shown almost immediately?

It was this one that NYP later dismissed as being an "innocent" shot of Landlord for properties who had died just weeks after CL went missing???

The Evening CCTV was launched by NYP on 18th March 2018. Exactly 3 Years after CL went missing and on the anniversary. Some may say that this was part of the new enquiry, some may say it was to appease the family who were pressurising NYP.

But from this we can indersatnd why there have been some "cover up" for a police officer involvement theories.

Dark Man in both CCTVs looks to be identical as having same height and build, same walk and speed of walk. In both the person had a slight limp.

Light man in the Evening CCTV is said to look of a slightly different stature. On one of the CCTVs Light man has a white carrier type bag and not in the other and on one Light man reappears at cost cutters.

The main differences between the two CCTVs are:

Dark man in the evening is out of sight for 50 seconds. Twice as long as in the morning-25 seconds.

Hence the thinking that in the morning they were returning something and in the evening they were picking up / searching for something. Which would take longer to locate.

Also Light man is on a different side of road and causes Dark Man to stop and hesitate.

Is this because Light man was in same side of road this time and not as far ahead of Dark Man. If Dark man had continued to walk without stopping, he would have caught up to Light man and then they may be seen as accomplices?

Or in the evening they watched something for 25 seconds-Claudias back room?

I will also post later about 3 houses I. Heworth Place that according to Electoral role we're unoccupied at time.

Do we know if other previous days or weeks were checked? Could it have been a regular drop off and delivery?

 

[Yozzer]

View attachment 191929

Here is another white jumper man at 5am, it may be the same white jumper man seen at 7pm the previous evening

According to this article, the man with the light coloured top/jacket going past Costcutters is the same man filmed on Heworth Road at 5.55 with a white bag or newspaper in hand.
The second man can be seen for a few seconds walking on the opposite side of Heworth Road at about 5.55am. He is wearing a light-coloured top and carrying an item, possibly a bag or a newspaper.
North Yorkshire police said the second man was also picked up on film a few minutes later walking past the Costcutter shop in Heworth Road, at the junction with East Parade and Dale's Lane.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/15/claudia-lawrence-cctv[URL="https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/may/15/claudia-lawrence-cctv"]Claudia Lawrence police seek two men seen on CCTV[/URL]

 

[MajorLang]

According to this article, the man with the light coloured top/jacket going past Costcutters is the same man filmed on Heworth Road at 5.55 with a white bag or newspaper in hand.
The second man can be seen for a few seconds walking on the opposite side of Heworth Road at about 5.55am. He is wearing a light-coloured top and carrying an item, possibly a bag or a newspaper.
North Yorkshire police said the second man was also picked up on film a few minutes later walking past the Costcutter shop in Heworth Road, at the junction with East Parade and Dale's Lane.

Claudia Lawrence police seek two men seen on CCTVClaudia Lawrence police seek two men seen on CCTV

@Yozzer This is incorrect press reporting. It wasn't 5:55 that Light person was sighted.
It was 5:07 and 21 seconds.
Light person was seen at same time as Dark person and they both appear in Evening and morning CCTV footage.

If they are not working together it could be said that one is trying to avoid the other or being seen by the other. Or even that they don't want to be seen together?

Please see my summary as follows that is based upon NYP website and CCTV footage:

Morning of Wednesday 19th March 2010

0500 Hours 07 Minutes 07 Seconds-Dark Person is seen entering Heworth Place again from Direction of CL House in Heworth Road

0500 Hours 07 Minutes 11 Seconds-Dark Person Disappears out of sight

They are in view for 4 seconds


******Whilst Dark Person is out of sight, Light Person is seen walking along Heworth Road, passing Heworth Place on opposite side of road from CL House

Between
****0500 Hours 07 Minutes 21 Seconds
and
0500 Hours 07 Minutes 25 Seconds******

They are also in view for 4 seconds*******

36 Seconds after Light person disappears and 50 Seconds after disappearing Dark Person Re-appears at 0500 Hours 08 Minutes 01 Seconds

Dark Person is out of sight for 50 Seconds

What can be done in this period of time?

0500 Hours 08 Minutes 11 Seconds-Dark Person Re-enters Heworth Road

Light Person crosses Heworth Place 14 Seconds after Dark Person Enters Heworth Place. It is possible that they saw one another at this point?


Dark Person Re enters Heworth Road 46 Seconds after Light person passes Heworth Place entrance.

If Light person had continued walking at same pace, they could have been at Cost Cutters by the time Dark Person returned into Heworth Road from Heworth Place.



It may not have been possible that they saw one another on this occasion.

Big Question for all Sleuths-Do we know what time Light Person was seen on Cost Cutter CCTV? This would be a big breakthrough if we did as it would tell us if they walked without stopping or continued straight on???

Another big question.
Light man is reported by NYP as being seen at Cost Cutters- "A few minutes later" a CCTV image is shown.
Interestingly, the CCTV screen shot doesn't show a time-Why, if you look at CCTV shot it appears to be daylight.

If this was a CCTV image at 5:08 to 5:10 and dawn on 19th March would be 5:31 Does this not appear to be rather suspicious when the earlier shot of them at 5:07 was a dark shot?

Further big question:

Police in the early days discounted the morning
CCTV as being as explained as a landlord checking his properties. If you recall the landlord died a few weeks after Claudia. (RC).
But then when enquiry is reinvestigated in 2015 when Operation Cabin becomes operation Essence-All if a sudden the Dark and Light man become reinstated.

I know that a few Sleuths don't agree with my previous thoughts on an undercover cop. But when you look at some of evidence, NYP are definitely holding back on some matters and if they can't solve this then they need to hand it over to someone independent who could have a go.
NB:
Cost Cutter trading hours are 07:30 to 21:00

 

[Yozzer]

From memory, I do recall there were problems with the reliability of the clocks on the various cctv cameras. I think the original times were reported in good faith based on the info issued by NYP. Here is a similar article stating 05.50 and mentioning that the police say the man in light coloured clothing passed Costcutters 'a few minutes later'.
Police release CCTV of man seen near home of missing Claudia Lawrence

What is of interest to me is that this man was seen outside CLs house between 06.45 and 06.55 in Thursday 19 March. Odd.
Man seen outside Claudia's house on the morning of her disappearance - North Yorkshire Police

 

[MajorLang]

From memory, I do recall there were problems with the reliability of the clocks on the various cctv cameras. I think the original times were reported in good faith based on the info issued by NYP. Here is a similar article stating 05.50 and mentioning that the police say the man in light coloured clothing passed Costcutters 'a few minutes later'.
Police release CCTV of man seen near home of missing Claudia Lawrence

What is of interest to me is that this man was seen outside CLs house between 06.45 and 06.55 in Thursday 19 March. Odd.
Man seen outside Claudia's house on the morning of her disappearance - North Yorkshire Police

@Yozzer Yes man seen outside her house at 6:45-6:55 was different to Light person at Cost Cutters

Cost cutter light person had dark hair

Person at 6:45 outside house was described with grey hair as:

The man is described as white, aged 55 to 65, about 6ft tall with a full head of medium-length grey hair which appeared scruffy and windswept.

He was wearing a matt sandy-coloured ‘Mac’ style jacket which came just below the knee. It was unfastened and appeared to be made of thick material or the wearer had extra clothing underneath.



@moonsafari Has suggested that the Cost Cutter person may have been wearing a wig. However even with a wig they were much younger looking than person seen at 6:45


Both persons had bulky clothing or something else under clothes??

 

[moonsafari]

According to this article, the man with the light coloured top/jacket going past Costcutters is the same man filmed on Heworth Road at 5.55 with a white bag or newspaper in hand.
The second man can be seen for a few seconds walking on the opposite side of Heworth Road at about 5.55am. He is wearing a light-coloured top and carrying an item, possibly a bag or a newspaper.
North Yorkshire police said the second man was also picked up on film a few minutes later walking past the Costcutter shop in Heworth Road, at the junction with East Parade and Dale's Lane.

Claudia Lawrence police seek two men seen on CCTVClaudia Lawrence police seek two men seen on CCTV

wow i can't believe this only just clicked...... the dunwells. they and a folk duo called two bobs used to play weekly slots at NH
and seem to have taken off somewhat after CL disappearance - "pair of brothers?" P/SRuane, L/NHorwell.... D/J Dunwell??

 

[MajorLang]

@moonsafari
Which one is the guy in Black and white checks scarf
He looks like Light Man outside Cost Cutters ?

 

[Yozzer]

CCTV of man 'still key' in Claudia Lawrence case
CCTV of man near Claudia Lawrence's home 18 March 2019

A MYSTERY man caught on CCTV lurking in the shadows may “hold the key” to the murder of missing chef Claudia Lawrence. 19 March 2015
New CCTV footage could help solve the case of missing Claudia Lawrence

This phrase comes up time and time again. I know it is a common expression in police enquiries but I do wonder if the police are hinting at something here without putting words into witnesses mouths. It's hard not to think he is accessing/returning a key in that alley.

 

[Yozzer]

wow i can't believe this only just clicked...... the dunwells. they and a folk duo called two bobs used to play weekly slots at NH
and seem to have taken off somewhat after CL disappearance - "pair of brothers?" P/SRuane, L/NHorwell.... D/J Dunwell??

Amazing likeness!

 

[MajorLang]

CCTV of man 'still key' in Claudia Lawrence case
CCTV of man near Claudia Lawrence's home 18 March 2019

A MYSTERY man caught on CCTV lurking in the shadows may “hold the key” to the murder of missing chef Claudia Lawrence. 19 March 2015
New CCTV footage could help solve the case of missing Claudia Lawrence

This phrase comes up time and time again. I know it is a common expression in police enquiries but I do wonder if the police are hinting at something here without putting words into witnesses mouths. It's hard not to think he is accessing/returning a key in that alley.

@Yozzer Yes I never looked at the play on words.
The 50 seconds in the evening where the Dark man disappears out of view compared to the 25 seconds suggest that not much happened.

As it takes longer to find than return a key then this is likely.

I wonder who knew where Claudia hid the key or who told someone where Claudia hid the spare key?

 

[Yozzer]

@Yozzer Yes I never looked at the play on words.
The 50 seconds in the evening where the Dark man disappears out of view compared to the 25 seconds suggest that not much happened.

As it takes longer to find than return a key then this is likely.

I wonder who knew where Claudia hid the key or who told someone where Claudia hid the spare key?

Would like to have known what day the bins were due to be collected.

 

[Pinkizzy]

The 5am mystery date that Claudia's friend kept secret ... One year on, a tantalising new clue about the missing chef's last hours | Daily Mail Online

"Her CDs, featuring local group The Dunwell Brothers, are untouched"