GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Gigi-G]

When JG was admitted to hospital in March 2013 (with complications from ectopic pregnancy/failed abortion - and injuries) she admitted herself under a false name again. BB says this was because SS had said they would take the two children back into care because they did not think JG could cope as a mother to 3 children.

I would like to know what that's all about. If it's true, because I just have to doubt everything he says, who assessed her as being able to cope with 2 but not 3? Why did they have ANY concerns about her? Why did they risk Ellie and her sister in her care if they had concerns about her?

I was rushed into hospital passed out. On coming round in resuscitation. I was asked if I was pregnant -no- as had coil fitted. Well long story short. 3 days later I had major operation. From hip to hip. As it was no straightforward deal. So I know the pain she would if been in and if it was complex. She wouldn't be out same day. I was in 10 days.

The children would of been on an 'at risk register' standard practice if hospital docs school health visitor had any concerns. BB n JG may not of been aware of this. But once you have been placed with a Social Worker. You are watched by many and as I said at risk register so all services are working together...

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[Gigi-G]

Her barrister had to shut her up today. She was calling out repeatedly from the dock "cremation" over and over again. He turned around in his seat to look at her, and a minute later the court usher was delivering her a note from him. She sort of smirked and tucked it into her sheaf of notes and didn't say another word.

She's so vindictive.... makes me angry

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[Gigi-G]

yes, I was there all day. I think I'll be going every day now unless something gets in the way of it. It's like starting a book and then not getting to finish it otherwise.

I'm so jealous Tortoise

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[Tortoise]

I'm so jealous Tortoise

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Well it's very cold there and the seats are hard. And there's about 7 flights of stairs to get up to the public gallery (with morning arrival, morning break, after lunch arrival and afternoon break that's a lot of steps). And you have to queue to go through a bag search every time. One women's toilet only. Expensive train fares and lunch (can't bring a packed lunch because no food allowed in the public gallery). Two really annoying idiots on trial. Have I put you off yet?

 

[Tortoise]

Actually I think I've put myself off. Think I'll stay home with a nice cuppa and read it in the news!

 

[cottonweaver]

Actually I think I've put myself off. Think I'll stay home with a nice cuppa and read it in the news!

I would definitely have gone today, if I was within a reasonable distance - as I wanted to see the smirk wiped off his face by Mr Brown.

Before I go and read these links, not had chance yet, I'd like to send him this as he likes kiddie characters. ( It's childish y'all so no need to open it!)
But in one of his laughing photos from 2012 with narrowed eyes he looks like this , to me.

http://previews.123rf.com/images/ja...398284-Laughing-pigs-Stock-Photo-pigs-pig.jpg

i can't find one of him with the smirk but without Ellie, sorry :
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/5904...53.jpg?w=620&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&

Apols to our porcine friends who are actually better-natured!

 

[Supernovae]

@Tortoise.

Have they given any more indication of what the outline of this weeks evidence is going to be/how long his cross examination is going to take?

 

[Tortoise]

Ellie's 'accident' - he says on Friday 11th October

This is the account given by BB (in my words)

The whole family had been ill starting from Tues 1st October with - he says - something like norovirus.
Ellie was well enough to go back to school by end of Weds 9th Oct and JG got a sick note for school by phoning GP.
The next day BB was still sick and he decided to keep Ellie home because he didn't feel up to taking her. Presume same thing happened the next day as well because -
Fri 11th Oct he was laying on the sofa and Ellie asked if she could take Millie the dog upstairs to play with her. JG was at work. It was afternoon.
The next thing he heard BANG.
He had taken the stairgate that they have at the top of their stairs away, to use in the living room doorway, because Millie the puppy has anxiety issues and cries at night when she is put in the kitchen, so he puts the stairgate there so she can see him on the sofa, to keep her calm. He also says in the next breath, she loves sleeping on top of him. Making sense? no, thought not. But on the day Ellie died, not the day of this accident remember, the police have photographed the stairgate at the top of the stairs. BB points out you can see marks on the wall where he has used it downstairs, even though it wasn't there for Millie when the police came, as he has explained...right..
Back to the bang.
He leaps up, and Ellie is lying face down on a small landing area a few stairs down from the top stair.
He scoops her up in his arms and carries her down to the sofa.
Ellie has her eyes open but is not responsive when he talks to her. She has a lump on her head.
He gets frozen peas to put on the lump.
Ellie falls unconscious.
Ellie comes round but is sick on the sofa.
He keeps her there all night to keep an eye on her because he sleeps downstairs on another sofa. She is quiet.
Quiet all the next day too, but ratty with her sister, which is unusual.
BB decides not to get her medically checked out because they don't trust anyone after 2007.
Ellie has no problems with her arm or shoulder. But has a carpet graze/cut on her shin.
Ellie goes back to school on Monday 14th October, with black eye, bloodshot eye, and plaster on forehead.

My note - this must be when the video of Ellie was taken with the bandaged leg and black eye. But where is the forehead bump?

 

[Tortoise]

@Tortoise.

Have they given any more indication of what the outline of this weeks evidence is going to be/how long his cross examination is going to take?

no they haven't said

 

[Tortoise]

What a shame they can't date that video.

 

[cottonweaver]

Ellie's 'accident' - he says on Friday 11th October

This is the account given by BB (in my words)

The whole family had been ill starting from Tues 1st October with - he says - something like norovirus.
Ellie was well enough to go back to school by end of Weds 9th Oct and JG got a sick note for school by phoning GP.
The next day BB was still sick and he decided to keep Ellie home because he didn't feel up to taking her. Presume same thing happened the next day as well because -
Fri 11th Oct he was laying on the sofa and Ellie asked if she could take Millie the dog upstairs to play with her. JG was at work. It was afternoon.
The next thing he heard BANG.
He had taken the stairgate ..........
BB decides not to get her medically checked out because they don't trust anyone after 2007.
Ellie has no problems with her arm or shoulder. But has a carpet graze/cut on her shin.
Ellie goes back to school on Monday 14th October, with black eye, bloodshot eye, and plaster on forehead.

My note - this must be when the video of Ellie was taken with the bandaged leg and black eye. But where is the forehead bump?

So SOCO farmed him with the stairgate!

snipped.
interesting because we have already heard ( correct me if inaccurate)
05/10/13 JG phoned them to say the whole family had flu as opposed to Tues 1st Oct . Is the 5th wrong?
mon 14/10/13 returns to school after 9 days absence with injuries bruising on her forehead, the bridge of her nose, and around her left eye, a plaster above her eyebrow. Ellie said she had tripped and fallen onto the stairs when she was chasing the family's new Jack Russell puppy. - This told to 3 teachers including J Cotterill that day
He has also missed out that within this period of absence that Gray*extracted a sick note on her word that Ellie had a respiratory tract infection,

Old head injury from within this period was described by Prof Freemont and
Mr Marnerides' "fractures to the six-year-old's head estimated to have occurred two-to-four weeks before her death"

Also wondering when he is going to refer to anything that might have caused shoulder fracture( & agony) variously est as occurring 2-4 and 3-5 weeks before 28th Oct

ETA- Bear with me! Catching up. So he is saying that after less than 3 full days she was able to go back to school on 14th, after having a fractured skull, albeit he did not know it was that serious. Also he is denying the most basic impact of having a broken shoulder - it must have happened during the puppy stairs trip but unbeknownst to him .

 

[Tortoise]

So SOCO farmed him with the stairgate!

snipped.
interesting because we have already heard ( correct me if inaccurate)
05/10/13 JG phoned them to say the whole family had flu as opposed to Tues 1st Oct . Is the 5th wrong?
mon 14/10/13 returns to school after 9 days absence with injuries bruising on her forehead, the bridge of her nose, and around her left eye, a plaster above her eyebrow. Ellie said she had tripped and fallen onto the stairs when she was chasing the family's new Jack Russell puppy. - This told to 3 teachers including J Cotterill that day
He has also missed out that within this period of absence that Gray*extracted a sick note on her word that Ellie had a respiratory tract infection,

Old head injury from within this period was described by Prof Freemont and
Mr Marnerides' "fractures to the six-year-old's head estimated to have occurred two-to-four weeks before her death"

Also wondering when he is going to refer to anything that might have caused shoulder fracture( & agony) variously est as occurring 2-4 and 3-5 weeks before 28th Oct

ETA- Bear with me! Catching up. So he is saying that after less than 3 full days she was able to go back to school on 14th, after having a fractured skull, albeit he did not know it was that serious. Also he is denying the most basic impact of having a broken shoulder - it must have happened during the puppy stairs trip but unbeknownst to him .

I don't know if she phoned school on 5th or not, but Ellie was off for 9 school days (excl. weekends)

(sick note is incl. in his account cw)

 

[cottonweaver]

LB's Guardian link

A man accused of murdering his six-year-old daughter in a fit of rage has described freezing in shock the moment he found her collapsed on the floor of her bedroom, and expressed regret for not phoning an ambulance until some hours later.

“I couldn’t move, I couldn’t breathe properly,” Ben Butler told a jury at the Old Bailey. “I didn’t help the way I should have helped. I tried to help, I tried to shake her. She didn’t wake, she didn’t respond to what I did. I tried to breathe in her mouth, it didn’t work. It just took the wind of my sails. I still don’t know why I didn’t do more.”

This contradicts the differing accounts given the afternoon :
-Butler: I Don't Know, I Don't Know, I Just Come Upstairs, My Little Girl Has Fallen Down And She's Laying There, She's Not Breathing She Did Make This Horrible... I Don't Even Know If She's Breathing.
-JG tells cops that she saw ellie after younger sis found her. But Hardy paramedic says she heard dad found her.

I notice he gets in shaking just in case that covers any injuries inadvertently again.

 

[cottonweaver]

At 11.30am he woke up, did some housework and then called up to Ellie and another child in the house offering them cake, he said. When he received no reply, he called again and then went upstairs, the jury heard. His daughter’s bedroom door was shut. Butler said he opened the door quickly and at first saw the other child sitting on the sofa.[/QUOTE]

What? he is saying young sis was in same room when E died? Is this a mis- report?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/17/muder-accused-ben-butler-shock-daughters-death-court

 

[cottonweaver]

ok, I see


it's not a mis print.
The jury are NOT going to buy this reaction account.
I presume as posted weeks ago, the CPS are not using any younger sis evidence so he is tailoring her in, as he does, the man who loves to spread around culpability

“Then I looked down and there was Ellie on the floor,” he said, describing how her feet were pointing towards a wardrobe. He said he took the other child to another room.

Asked by his barrister, Icah Peart QC, what he did next, Butler replied: “I walked out the door … and shut the door behind me.”

Asked whether he had asked the other child what had happened, Butler said he had not. “The only way I can describe it is if you have a car accident – everything went slow. I felt like all the wind had come out of me and I went downstairs and I lay on the floor,” he said.

Still shocked though.

 

[Gigi-G]

Today he stated that he did not find out JG was pregnant until March 2013 when she was in hospital.

How is he going to explain this text? "In a text to Ms Gray on January 16, 2013, Mr Butler said: “Im disg that ur preg again and think its irresponsible and shocking.. had engh of ur weight and looks..and the trble u bring.”


He also said today that he hasn't bothered reading the text messages, even though he's had them for a year.

He is an awful liar.... I mean. As it's there in black and white and date stamped too.

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[Tortoise]

no it's not a mis-report she was in the room. He said he never asked her what happened either.

 

[cottonweaver]

Errrr
"Butler said he put a towel stained with some of Gray’s blood and some other items including a diary of hers in the bin because he sensed he would be blamed by police because of the previous overturned conviction for assaulting Ellie"

Gray's blood?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/17/muder-accused-ben-butler-shock-daughters-death-court

Am s******ing at his attempt to tailor the Ian Hudson call in to his "car accident freeze" BS
ETA that was snuggering with an i , but for some reason that is now banned on WS , blimey.

No doubt dog walking and "it's nasty out" will be the same - irrational shock.

Yet really when he did both those things, they were part of a cover-up. Placing calls, and texts about chilli tonight. He's changed his Defence version since then. Sneaky.

 

[Tortoise]

It's more interesting than that cottonw, he said he called his friend Ian because Ian had helped him before in 2007. Sounds to me as if Ian would say what BB wanted him to say. But this time of course, Ian wasn't in the same building, so what use would he be? It's crazy.

 

[Gigi-G]

When JG was admitted to hospital in March 2013 (with complications from ectopic pregnancy/failed abortion - and injuries) she admitted herself under a false name again. BB says this was because SS had said they would take the two children back into care because they did not think JG could cope as a mother to 3 children.

I would like to know what that's all about. If it's true, because I just have to doubt everything he says, who assessed her as being able to cope with 2 but not 3? Why did they have ANY concerns about her? Why did they risk Ellie and her sister in her care if they had concerns about her?

The only reason I would think. Would be maybe down to BB. After all everything relating to yourselves is freely available on the Internet.
He's been arrested and dealt with before for Violence. And including in that he assaulted his gf at the time.
So he has a record of violence...
He gets with JG. Within 8 weeks she's pregnant..... (this was doomed from the get go)
Maybe they've had arguments over this. We know he's not pro baby. So maybe he slapped her up a bit. Maybe it was noticeable at Anti Natal appointment. Maybe Nurse/GP picked up on it.
The rest is history..
He was a time bomb ..... waiting to blow.

Ellie was that target. That day. It could of just as easily been JG.
Ellie suffered at both of their hands.
She (JG) was Ellie's protector. She should of guarded those children with her life.
But yet she allowed BB to manipulate the situation. For WHY. I'd love to know.
Was Ellie his 'anger' release. As he said in a psychiatric examination. If he gets to throw a punch. It smothers the rage within him.

Either way. I really hope she gets a custodial too.

If the children stayed with their respective foster parents. They would still be here today!

Moo

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