GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

[Gigi-G]

This abhorrent excuse of a human. Does nothing but make me feel violently sick.
Every word out of his mouth is utter BS. With excuse after excuse trying to save his own neck. He'd even sell JG down the river if he had to. I'm sure. As he's not painted her in a favourable light neither.
He wants to be the victim he wants your sympathy vote.
He wants JG to seem as culpable as he is.
He said his heart broke when he saw Ellie lying there.
He said he fell to the floor. And couldn't breathe.

No he was in a blind panic cuz this time he'd gone too far.
Did Ellie answer him back?
He had been poorly remember.
He had lack of sleep so he took a nap before going out and cleaning up.
Had she wet herself and he lost it.
To be sure. Something that Ellie said or did pushed his buttons so much. He exploded.

Who's to say. that with Ellie's previous skull injuries. Maybe her skull wasn't as strong as a 'normal' skull not presenting any fractures. As bones that heal are never as strong as those that are perfect.

He boasts Ellie had a problem.
We know she wore corrective glasses to straighten the offset eye. It sufferered with weak movement. Could this of happened after her 7 weeks old brain injury. Possibly.
Now Ellie has been Cremated. I'm sure he'll play out the fact that the Court's specialist's denied his legal team access to samples they wished to take.
Even though it stated in court that both teams had been in contact. And nothing was brought up to delay funeral any longer.

So..... the Monster is revealing his inner self.....


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[cottonweaver]

tweet from UKcourt news

Ben Butler asks of one international experts: 'The bloke who looks like he's from the Village People?'

[video=twitter;732935209159692289]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732935209159692289[/video]

This is the man that JG says she is "in awe of. "
Who on earth is he performing for? It isn't the jury, they're not laughing according to Tortoise. Boyish bravado that tells the court - you don't faze me, I'm quite comfortable up here on the stand, in the spotlight again. Rewind 2009.

 

[Gigi-G]

tweet from UKcourt news

Ben Butler asks of one international experts: 'The bloke who looks like he's from the Village People?'

[video=twitter;732935209159692289]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732935209159692289[/video]

This is the man that JG says she is "in awe of. "
Who on earth is he performing for? It isn't the jury, they're not laughing according to Tortoise. Boyish bravado that tells the court - you don't faze me, I'm quite comfortable up here on the stand, in the spotlight again. Rewind 2009.

He likes to CHANGE the flow of subject to something so inane like. Throwing in zippy n village people.
All are a masquerade I'm sorry. To throw something random n visual you send differing signals to whom ever is listening/watching.

Things like "how did you kill her Mr Butler?"

BB would pipe up... Peppa Pig did...

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[cottonweaver]

He likes to CHANGE the flow of subject to something so inane like. Throwing in zippy n village people.
All are a masquerade I'm sorry. To throw something random n visual you send differing signals to whom ever is listening/watching.

Things like "how did you kill her Mr Butler?"

BB would pipe up... Peppa Pig did...

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He's a joke not a joker.
I think you're right , it's a sideshow, let's get off the catastrophic injuries and look at me I'm just a funny guy?
I would be nervous in the dock as the accused. He doesn't seem to be.

I checked out the bones are weaker after breaking and ID think it's true GIgi - They seem to be the same as before. I was interested as I fractured my arm once years ago and it has been aching recently. ( My mum told me a break can lead to arthritis in that arm though)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/health/19really.html?_r=0

"As a result, there may be a brief period in the healing process when the fracture site is stronger than the surrounding bone. But they later reach equal strength, and the fracture site is no more or less likely to break again. Dr. Amaral said that in studies in which healed bones were subjected to bending and twisting forces, the repaired bones were capable of breaking anywhere, including the fracture site. “They never comment that it’s stronger or weaker than the rest of the bone,” he said."

Just on the skull injury, which he keeps trying to swerve off from :

Ellie died when she was at home alone with Butler in October 2013; a postmortem showed that she had a fracture almost the entire length of her skull with injuries likened by experts to those in a high-speed car crash.

It's the force of impacts, I think.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-justice-to-that-of-hillsborough-families

A third expert, a forensic pathologist, believed Ellie's major head injury was "the result of one or more very forceful blunt impacts, arising through being thrown against a wall or the ground, or struck with a heavy blunt weapon", the court heard.
"A domestic accident could not have given rise to these complex, catastrophic and rapidly fatal injuries," Mr Brown added.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36092752

We must have some CSI geeks on here - aren't there multiple tests for blood clean up on walls/floors etc?
I suppose the blunt weapon could be anything OTOH and as Tortoise said, it was disposed of successfully?

 

[Gigi-G]

[video=twitter;732876238524710912]https://twitter.com/CourtNewsUK/status/732876238524710912[/video]
LOL



This guy can be found on the David Icke forum late into the small hours.!!! I bet.

I think he is totally out of order for even suggesting his plight is anything like those poor relatives who lost those dear to them at Hillsborough.

This case is of HIS OWN MAKING. He alone could of stopped this. And JG should of made sure as any mother would do that her children were safe.
So between her and him. They FAILED the children drastically.



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[Gigi-G]

He's a joke not a joker.
I think you're right , it's a sideshow, let's get off the catastrophic injuries and look at me I'm just a funny guy?
I would be nervous in the dock as the accused. He doesn't seem to be.

I checked out the bones are weaker after breaking and ID think it's true GIgi - They seem to be the same as before. I was interested as I fractured my arm once years ago and it has been aching recently. ( My mum told me a break can lead to arthritis in that arm though)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/health/19really.html?_r=0


Just on the skull injury, which he keeps trying to swerve off from :



It's the force of impacts, I think.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-justice-to-that-of-hillsborough-families


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36092752

We must have some CSI geeks on here - aren't there multiple tests for blood clean up on walls/floors etc?
I suppose the blunt weapon could be anything OTOH and as Tortoise said, it was disposed of successfully?

Right so we hear that Ellie's skull fracture was an immense blow. Yet no one can ascertain at HOW.
Blood was found throughout the home. JG's mingled with Ellie's. All recent too.
So no forensic expert has reported any findings of any blood of Ellie's dna traces on ANY places in the home.?
This is really bugging me. There's no weapon. That we know of.

Arghhh I'm off to go 3d a murder scene.. bbl




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[Gigi-G]

He's a joke not a joker.
I think you're right , it's a sideshow, let's get off the catastrophic injuries and look at me I'm just a funny guy?
I would be nervous in the dock as the accused. He doesn't seem to be.

I checked out the bones are weaker after breaking and ID think it's true GIgi - They seem to be the same as before. I was interested as I fractured my arm once years ago and it has been aching recently. ( My mum told me a break can lead to arthritis in that arm though)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/health/19really.html?_r=0


Just on the skull injury, which he keeps trying to swerve off from :



It's the force of impacts, I think.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-justice-to-that-of-hillsborough-families


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36092752

We must have some CSI geeks on here - aren't there multiple tests for blood clean up on walls/floors etc?
I suppose the blunt weapon could be anything OTOH and as Tortoise said, it was disposed of successfully?

There's always something forgotten.

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[cottonweaver]

updated Guardian article, extras that we haven't heard

"Brown then moved cross-examination on to allegations that Butler sometimes lost control of his temper. Taking him through 16 pages of abusive text exchanges with Gray, Brown suggested that his partner was “terrified of being hit by you and threats by you to actual and very serious violence”.

In one she complains of being “kneed in the and pussy and kicked me out”. Butler said he did not know what that was about other than he was not interested in sex with her at the time.

“That’s plain evidence of being violent to her,” suggested Brown. “It’s a threat of violence,” Butler replied, referring to his earlier evidence that he only made hollow threats to Gray because she repeatedly abandoned her children.

“I’m acting like this because she’s not there for the kids,” says Butler. Brown suggested the threats were in fact very real.

Explaining one text, Butler said he was blaming her for not recognising Ellie was sick before she dropped her off the day she collapsed with what was originally thought to be shaken baby syndrome.

“Our arguments led to me pushing her and things like that, I’m not hitting her,” he said.

“You say I’ve killed my daughter. I haven’t killed my daughter … What am I on trial for, either rowing with my wife or my children?” he said.

“You’re saying because I’m guilty of XY, I’m guilty of Z. There was nothing wrong that day, there’s no marks [on Ellie], you know full well … I’m 100%. Ellie wouldn’t have died that day without the problems she had,” he said repeating assertions that she had a brain injury at birth. “Another child might have banged her head and cried and wouldn’t have died,” he said."

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-justice-to-that-of-hillsborough-families

 

[cottonweaver]

If there are no marks on Ellie - why does he keep saying that when the pathologists found gripping marks on her? Can't he keep track?

Ok when he checked Ellie's body for incriminating marks soon after killing her, maybe they had not appeared yet but the path said

"“In Dr Cary’s opinion, this major head injury was the result of one or more very forceful blunt impacts arising, for instance, through being thrown against a wall or the ground, or struck with a heavy blunt weapon.”

“The areas of bruising and the abrasion over Ellie’s body are consistent with grappling and gripping, including over the jawline and the limbs,” added Brown.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ix-year-old-injured-like-car-crash-court-told

 

[cottonweaver]

Newest article in DM
Ok he now appears to be accepting culpability NOT for the killing on the 28th, but for NOT getting her checked out previously which left her susceptible as she had an undiagnosed medical problem.

"He insists she died due to undiagnosed health problems made worse by a fall he says she suffered weeks before she died.
Giving evidence today, he accepted he should have taken her to hospital before but didn't because of how he claims he had previously been treated by authorities.
Butler told the court: 'Ellie wouldn't have died that day without the problems she had.
'And she did it at birth, and it was to do with the blood not draining properly. And I believe that's why she died. But if I took her to the hospital when I should have, then she probably would still be here.'
He added: 'I blame myself every day. It was just the fear of the hospitals, the way we've been treated, and I'm responsible.
'I feel like if I had taken her to the hospital we would have found out what was wrong. 'They probably would have put a helmet on Ellie and whatever she's doing that day wouldn't have happened. It's down to me and it was my fault. I will accept that's my fault.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...compares-case-Hillsborough.html#ixzz491hYzmC6
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


So he wants a medical neglect conviction, if he has to get anything. As the "system" forced him to avoid medical care, he'd like that suspended please & thankyou.

he forgot he went to see Dr Sheldon about having the ears pinned back on 23 October 2013, 5 days before he killed her, clearly not so scared as he was choosing elective surgery.

 

[cottonweaver]

The arrogance of the man.

Finally found the Village People "joke" point

He then accused the prosecutor of being after 'blood'.
When Mr Brown mentioned two medical experts from abroad, Butler said: 'You dug them up.
'No one's ever heard of them before. The bloke who came in looking like he's in The Village People?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...compares-case-Hillsborough.html#ixzz491kKjF4r
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[squish]

IMO, BB must have had fights in his life, he knew the pain a beating will cause yet he didn't care that his tiny daughter endured excruciating pain at his hands. BB is a heartless human being and knew what he was doing. BB didn't want Ellie to die, he wanted her to remain and be his punching bag for as long as he needed an outlet. She represented everything that was wrong with his life. This kind of thinking is against most people's nature, why should Ellie or anyone pay for his shortcomings?
A 'normal' person knows striking a child or even an adult, will cause pain, if BB can't understand that, he's not normal. He's a sadistic monster, imo. If I slapped his face, he'd recoil in pain, he'd understand that. He feels better when he's inflicting pain, he's a sadistic freak. I hope he rots in prison.

I agree with you; I hope I didn't make it sound like I thought BB cared about poor Ellie. He certainly did intend to hurt and injure her, which is the entire purpose in beating someone.

I just don't think he intended to kill or severely injure her, not because he cared in any way, but because (as he has pretty much admitted) he was scared of getting himself into trouble.

I was speculating on his thought process, and how he may have no longer realised how lethal his brutal assaults were, due to Ellie previously surviving them.

I do believe that he was shocked that he'd killed her.

 

[Tortoise]

Prosecutor is doing a sterling job.

I'm sick to the back teeth of hearing everything is because of 2007.

His violence, his anger, his hatred for JG, his vile texts, not being able to enjoy 'what should have been a golden time with his girls', not calling the ambulance, not getting treatment for Ellie at beginning of October, not having a fair trial, being charged with murder, you name it, it's all because of 2007.

Brown said to him today, everyone is lying except Ben Butler, are you going to say the CCTV is lying too?

What a loser.

 

[Tortoise]

Just going over what they covered today in my head -

The 999 call (the big charade)
His texts as evidence his violence is more than minor violence,
His previous convictions
His 2 hour cover up - what did JG know before she got home, did they move Ellie, who cut up the cake into the 4 pieces in the kitchen,
JG's blood in the house and her washed shirt
Ellie vomiting blood on the sofa when she tripped over the dog

still thinking...

 

[Supernovae]

[video=twitter;732935606779695104]https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/732935606779695104[/video]

Do we know what's happening tomorrow?

 

[Supernovae]

[video=twitter;732925557508280321]https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/732925557508280321[/video]

 

[Supernovae]

[video=twitter;732926108413353984]https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/732926108413353984[/video]

 

[cottonweaver]

Ok this is pretty superficial - it's about cake - so don't laugh but it just seems strange to me

Tortoise reported - Day before Ellie's death - 27th October 2013

JG took the girls to see the grandparents at McDonalds. BB did not go. They brought along cake for the girls to take home.

on the 28th, day of her death after 11.30, BB says he shouted both girls for cake but heard no answer from them.

then on charade afternoon we were told JG had brought cupcakes home around 2pm - which means she actually must have stopped after the taxi to buy cakes even though her dau was very ill/dead - depending on who you want to believe - him/her/neither.

Yes I just checked - paramedic says:

"I heard someone say her mum had come home from work and had called up to Ellie she had brought cupcakes home. Someone said the (other) child had gone up to get Ellie and then her dad had gone up and found her."

Of Gray's behaviour at the time, she said: "She was crying and saying something along the lines of 'Please come back so we can have cupcakes again together'."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/harrowing-999-call-reveals-mum-7809477

now Tortoise just said it was a cake cut in 4 pieces - so it isn't cupcakes she brought home.

Either they eat a lot of cake or they are tripping over themselves to look like parents who treat their kids to goodies.

 

[Gigi-G]

He's a joke not a joker.
I think you're right , it's a sideshow, let's get off the catastrophic injuries and look at me I'm just a funny guy?
I would be nervous in the dock as the accused. He doesn't seem to be.

I checked out the bones are weaker after breaking and ID think it's true GIgi - They seem to be the same as before. I was interested as I fractured my arm once years ago and it has been aching recently. ( My mum told me a break can lead to arthritis in that arm though)

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/19/health/19really.html?_r=0


Just on the skull injury, which he keeps trying to swerve off from :



It's the force of impacts, I think.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-justice-to-that-of-hillsborough-families


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36092752

We must have some CSI geeks on here - aren't there multiple tests for blood clean up on walls/floors etc?
I suppose the blunt weapon could be anything OTOH and as Tortoise said, it was disposed of successfully?

When the autopsy was done. The specialist was most definate on "it came away as two pieces. The trauma was quite evident even to the naked eye." Now I've just spent the best part of e hours going thru autopsys and child blunt head trauma. Now an adult skull will take much more of a blow. Than a child obviously. But with a child's skull. The skull sutures have still not permanently bonded. Leaving it quite supple.. however. There are still parts of the skull that are still growing. And it's along those lines that 'car crash trauma' that take the stress. It's easier to show in pictures than in words. Let me see if I can find a non gory one to show my point.

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[squish]

Just going over what they covered today in my head -

The 999 call (the big charade)
His texts as evidence his violence is more than minor violence,
His previous convictions
His 2 hour cover up - what did JG know before she got home, did they move Ellie, who cut up the cake into the 4 pieces in the kitchen,
JG's blood in the house and her washed shirt
Ellie vomiting blood on the sofa when she tripped over the dog

still thinking...

Horrific - she must have been bleeding inside [emoji17]