GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[neteditor]

Found in the septic tank!

Fiance of author Helen Bailey appears in court charged with her murder as it emerges her body was found with that of her dog in the family's septic tank

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rden-three-months-vanished.html#ixzz4EbJNjniC

Aha well my next post was going to be why there were no apparent signs of digging in the overhead photos of the garden! Seems like there is something to this. And the article says the septic tank they drained earlier was only the overflow not the real tank which explains why it wasn't found before. The heavy duty cutters might have been need to widen access so the lifting crew could access (which explains the fire brigade attendance, I think they have the gear that lifts things like cars out of ditches and lakes etc).

 

[MillyM]

The septic tank - which was where they supposedly looked before, no? Didn't do a thorough job, or the body was elsewhere and moved there later??

 

[Alyce]

Oh good grief ! I just saw that in DM and was about to say, but didn't they drain the cess pit almost straight away.

Thank goodness for neighbours, sometimes they are a great help.

No wonder the police didnt see anything in the garden during the first check. And it explains the fire brigade as well.

And, no doubt he thought he'd found the perfect place that nobody knew about

 

[neteditor]

The septic tank - which was where they supposedly looked before, no? Didn't do a thorough job, or the body was elsewhere and moved there later??

You might not be familiar with septic tank technology, but older ones are usually deep underground with an overflow tank higher up - primarily to prevent slurry being dispersed onto the surface during high water table / floods etc. Only someone with detailed knowledge of that particular tank system would have known about the secondary tank.

ETA: I've lived with a few very dodgy septic tank installations done on the cheap! That house would have had the no-expense-spared real deal.

 

[MillyM]

"...the septic tank they drained earlier was only the overflow not the real tank which explains why it wasn't found before..."

Maybe the police should obtain land deeds in cases like this which would surely give all factors pertaining to house and land.

 

[Alyce]

I wonder if their non comment is ;

to cover themselves from criticism of not finding them earlier
to be respectful to the family as the general public really does not need to know this detail
to assist the prosecution for the trial ( if there is no guilty plea and instinct tells me there wont be )

Sorry for quoting myself but , in light of this new information , I am going to say that I think their wish to say nothing about where Helen and Boris were found is down to the fact that they might not have found them if not for the extremely helpful neighbours.
I realise that for the first search, as others have said, they could only look in the areas that IS was willing to allow them access to...but surely when they had arrested him, last Monday, they should have taken a look at house plans for a property of that size.
I bet that's a definite lesson to be learnt for future.


ETA snap Milly, they most certainly should

 

[Satchie]

I wonder if the previous owner made the same joke about "perfect place to hide a body" when handing over the house to IS & HB? Does it influence someone's decision to commit murder if they belive they have a perfect place to conceal the victim?

 

[neteditor]

That mailonline article goes waaaaaaaaay beyond what is permitted under sub judice rules :facepalm: :bang: :jail:

 

[faybradshaw]

You might not be familiar with septic tank technology, but older ones are usually deep underground with an overflow tank higher up - primarily to prevent slurry being dispersed onto the surface during high water table / floods etc. Only someone with detailed knowledge of that particular tank system would have known about the secondary tank.

ETA: I've lived with a few very dodgy septic tank installations done on the cheap! That house would have had the no-expense-spared real deal.

Thanks for info on septic tanks - don't know much about them. I'm dreading to think what would have happened if the neighbours hadn't given this info to the police and LS must have thought he had outwitted everyone

 

[Tortoise]

It doesn't bear thinking about. It's bad enough already, without thinking of Helen and Boris just being dumped and left in . I hope they were already dead. He knew about it and had plans for it. Helen's family must be distraught with this knowledge on top.

 

[Alyce]

I wonder if the previous owner made the same joke about "perfect place to hide a body" when handing over the house to IS & HB? Does it influence someone's decision to commit murder if they belive they have a perfect place to conceal the victim?

Yes, I could well believe that - and it gets filed away in the mind !

 

[neteditor]

It doesn't bear thinking about. It's bad enough already, without thinking of Helen and Boris just being dumped and left in . I hope they were already dead. He knew about it and had plans for it. Helen's family must be distraught with this knowledge on top.

Oh jeeeeeez you gave me a horrible thought, that vile man has been going to the bathroom and knowingly flushing his doings onto them. Can't bear to imagine what was going on in his head all that time.

 

[Alyce]

It doesn't bear thinking about. It's bad enough already, without thinking of Helen and Boris just being dumped and left in . I hope they were already dead. He knew about it and had plans for it. Helen's family must be distraught with this knowledge on top.

It is desperately, horrendously sad and says much about his character. Greed and Ego.

I was just re reading Helen's book tonight and the ending made me cry. When she said to one of ISs sons that she couldnt quite think how to finish off the book, he said why dont you just say and they all lived happily ever after.

and the final dedication she made - to IS - made me feel quite sick.

 

[neteditor]

There's another horrible thought in my mind... the nature of septic tanks is that they are full of bacteria whose job it is to "eat" all the waste. I'm wondering how they affect the post mortem disintegration of bodies... off to Google. I hope the feds aren't checking my Google history :/

 

[Tortoise]

neteditor, does the householder have to put chemicals in the septic tank to assist with decomposition, if that is the right word?

 

[ZaZara]

"...the septic tank they drained earlier was only the overflow not the real tank which explains why it wasn't found before..."

Maybe the police should obtain land deeds in cases like this which would surely give all factors pertaining to house and land.

Would a septic tank be on a land deed? I have a septic tank, no longer in use. It was not and is not registered anywhere. We thought about digging a deeper one and could have done that without informing anyone.

If ever that tank had to be emptied, they would have found them but that might have taken years. I expect IS would have hoped to be gone by then.

 

[ZaZara]

neteditor, does the householder have to put chemicals in the septic tank to assist with decomposition, if that is the right word?

Better to avoid chemicals whenever possible.

 

[Tortoise]

Agh, he disgusts me even more. Thought he would get away with it.

So what did make the police focus on the garden? Why not the surrounding coastal areas of Broadstairs, and the garden there? Is it because they never saw evidence of Helen leaving, on the neighbours cctv I wonder.

 

[Tortoise]

Now I have other questions. I presume a body would rise to the surface? Wouldn't there be a chance of causing a blockage in the overflow? Is this too insensitive, and disgusting for discussion?

 

[neteditor]

Yes Tortoise ZaZara is right, the natural process of bacterial digestion is what makes septic tanks work. You're not meant to use bleach or anti bacterial cleaning agents with a septic tank as they kill the bacteria that is meant to be there.

OK don't anyone read this page if you have a dodgy stomach or the flu, I'm struggling myself now but here is the pertinent info:

"Putrefaction ...<snip>... is rapid in a body lying in water contaminated with sewage."

http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/post-mortem-changes/putrefaction

However, temperature will also have a bearing. Of course these will have been warm months since Helen went missing, but the depth of the tank might mean it is colder?

Either way I don't envy the pathologist their job on Monday. I wonder will they have a vet PM boris?