GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #1

[LozDa]

 

[Legally Bland]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/01/13/12/3C19AB3100000578-4117052-image-a-106_1484312181312.jpg

 

[Alyce]

Good grief. No wonder they didn't find it on the initial searches.

Not what I had pictured at all.

Poor Helen & Boris. :tears:

I think its quite odd that they didnt find it.
They - allegedly - brought in a septic tank expert to do the search relating to the tank. He only searched/looked at the overflow area.
Surely an expert would know that this was just an overflow and that the main tank had to be located nearby on the property.
I also wonder why they didnt look at house plans, given the age of the property. That should have shown the location of the tank.

 

[Alyce]

View attachment 107713

I find this pic particularly chilling...you can see how they had to cut down and enter the tank sideways to remove Helen carefully.

Makes me so angry...and sad.

 

[MillyM]

"A laser graphic reveals the depth of the well to be 12 to 15ft deep with the manhole cover opening being 56cm by 70cm."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cesspit-murdered-childrens-author-dumped-9615884

 

[yossarian247]

I think its quite odd that they didnt find it.
They - allegedly - brought in a septic tank expert to do the search relating to the tank. He only searched/looked at the overflow area.
Surely an expert would know that this was just an overflow and that the main tank had to be located nearby on the property.
I also wonder why they didnt look at house plans, given the age of the property. That should have shown the location of the tank.

It's not unusual with older properties for there to be no plans of the drains, particularly where there is a septic tank system not connected to mains drainage. There were few regs in those days, and individual builders all tended to do their own thing with regard to septic tanks. I've owned a couple of houses where that was the case, and locating the drains was basically guesswork unless you could ask a previous occupant, or a longstanding neighbour etc

 

[Cherwell]

Good grief. No wonder they didn't find it on the initial searches.

Not what I had pictured at all.

Poor Helen & Boris. :tears:

Not what I had pictured either, but not in the same way you mean. It's right in the front! I had assumed it was tucked away in the back somewhere, but the cover is right in your face as soon as the door is open (once the car was moved, of course).

 

[yossarian247]

...actually from looking at the cross-section drawing I don't think it's a septic tank or cesspool at all, but rather an old rainwater storage cistern like this for example:

http://www.milesgolding.com/cistern.html

It may well have been there long before the garage was built on top of it.

 

[Alyce]

From the brief comments that had been made in Court, I had a picture in my mind of the manhole cover being at the right side rear of the garage.
Having now seen that it was right front of the garage, then it does not look odd to have a car parked over it. In fact, given the amount of * stuff * that they had stored at the rear of the garage, the only place to park was the front section, right next to the doors.
I suppose the slight suspicion would be that I doubt Helen usually parked in the garage ( the cleaner's evidence - I think ? - was that the Jeep was moved there after Helen's disappearance ).
But then again, as she was - allegedly - away for a time, I suppose it would not be totally odd for IS to put her car into the garage.

 

[Alyce]

It's not unusual with older properties for there to be no plans of the drains, particularly where there is a septic tank system not connected to mains drainage. There were few regs in those days, and individual builders all tended to do their own thing with regard to septic tanks. I've owned a couple of houses where that was the case, and locating the drains was basically guesswork unless you could ask a previous occupant, or a longstanding neighbour etc

Thank you, that explains things very well


eta I think this is just my anger coming to the fore, wishing so desperately that Helen could have been found sooner.

 

[Alyce]

 

[Tortoise]

Wasn't something placed over the manhole cover too, like a piece of board? I have a recollection of that from way back.

 

[Tortoise]

...actually from looking at the cross-section drawing I don't think it's a septic tank or cesspool at all, but rather an old rainwater storage cistern like this for example:

http://www.milesgolding.com/cistern.html

It may well have been there long before the garage was built on top of it.

They have referred to the sewage in it I think.

 

[Alyce]

Wasn't something placed over the manhole cover too, like a piece of board? I have a recollection of that from way back.

Yes I remember that ........the comment was made ( I think by the police ) that it was thought the wooden board/pallet was placed there to catch drips from the car. Which actually made me think it might have been ISs MG - which was SORN - that was parked there.

 

[yossarian247]

They have referred to the sewage in it I think.

Yes, which is odd as it doesn't really look like it was originally designed for that, but it may have subsequently been adapted for that purpose I suppose.

 

[yossarian247]

eta I think this is just my anger coming to the fore, wishing so desperately that Helen could have been found sooner.

I just find it hard to comprehend how anyone could throw the body of the woman he claimed to love, and her beloved pet, into somewhere like that. It doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[Alyce]

I thought it might be useful to put these two pics back up ( I know we have them earlier on in the thread ).

Gives an idea of distance from the house to the garage. I had said previously that I thought IS drove round with the body rather than risk coming out of the back of the house and walking to the garage.
Looking at these pics, the nearest back exit from the house is the conservatory door, which means he would then have to go down the steps and along to the gate in the fence to reach the garage.
Not sure on this one - a car might draw attention ( more noise ) but that walk through the garden, with a large black sack ??


eta I am forgetting. From the house plans, there is a door on the left rear side of the house - left side as you are looking at the top picture here. I think this door leads out from the kitchen.
So he could have used that door, then a short walk along the side path to the garage.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Wasn't something placed over the manhole cover too, like a piece of board? I have a recollection of that from way back.

You are right. A large sheet of DIY type board I believe. I know people do use that in garages to catch oil drips so it was probably thought it was there for that purpose. I imagine the police are very embarrassed by this.

 

[pinklilies]

Yes, which is odd as it doesn't really look like it was originally designed for that, but it may have subsequently been adapted for that purpose I suppose.

This is what I was thinking as Helen did describe it as a well, according to JB. It maybe was adapted over the years, then once the one that had been searched initially, was installed, one fed in to the other.

 

[Cherwell]

I just find it hard to comprehend how anyone could throw the body of the woman he claimed to love, and her beloved pet, into somewhere like that. It doesn't bear thinking about.

He is going to reap the rewards once he is convicted and properly in prison. Especially for the dog. He is going to be spending years cleaning himself up.

(Yes, I know he's "presumed innocent" etc.)