GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[icemaiden65]

:stop:

Some posts have been removed. You are here to discuss the case and not your views on one another.

So pleased to see this! I was on the verge of leaving after one poster in particular got close to being abusive about something I wrote yesterday. Thank you!

 

[Squamous]

Kate Bradbrook ‏@katebradbrook 32m32 minutes ago

About to go live @BBCLookEast outside St Albans Crown Court with latest on #helenbailey case


ETA ..... sorry everyone, think Kate may be getting a bit ahead of herself, the scheduled timing was 2.30pm for the restart

I think she was about to go live as in on a live TV report.

I don't believe anyone is purely evil but I do know someone committed an evil act wrt to Helen and Boris. IS was arrested before the bodies were found, right? Was he charged?

 

[mrazda71]

I do see what you are saying - I think it's worse than any of us have imagined though mrazda and we were all following this from last year. I honestly expected some charisma, as I said pre-trial to charm this successful author but what is worse is I can't detect any sense of respect or love.

I have wondered if his lack of social skills is due to some autistic disorder( high functioning with his practical skills in the mechanisms he made) and I appreciate others have said sociopathy. I'm not really up on the subtleties of mental health classifications but surely he has to have some degree of psychopathy to do what he has done?

Yes Cottonweaver, I too have followed since day 1 and had knew of Helen through her writing too and yes, she writes in such a way that you do feel like she's chatting to you over coffee but, some weird me out a bit ...

That's partly what I'm trying to get at, he could well be charismatic and charming, we've not heard him at his best have we and it's all pre judged.

<modsnip>

Surely Ian Will have been assessed multiple times by a professional qualified to say if he's a psychopath or not and if he was I doubt he'd be sat in the dock pleading not guilty?

I'm not someone who thinks anyone is 'pure evil' - they're not. Thinking they are is just people trying to reassure themselves that they'd know a 'bad guy' should they come accross one and in reality they probably won't because even Hitler wasn't a bad guy all the time.

Thanks for at least considering my ramblings Cottonweaver it's what I come to websleuth for, 2 way debate and discussion

 

[Interested Bystander]

He asked her to marry him a year after they met . If the intention was to marry her to get to her money, then since the time of his proposal Helen had made sure he would be looked after financially even without marrying her, so I wonder if he now really couldn't see the point in marrying her.

I think my memory is playing tricks. For some reason I thought IS first spent time with Helen a year after her husband's death. So did she start seeing him almost immediately after losing her husband?

 

[Squamous]

As far as I know IS will only have been assessed as fit to stand trial, I don't think there's any procedures for testing pre-trial for anything else unless a plea is based on diminished responsibility? The judge can ask for pre-sentencing reports though I think. I am no expert though.

 

[Squamous]

I think my memory is playing tricks. For some reason I thought IS first spent time with Helen a year after her husband's death. So did she start seeing him almost immediately after losing her husband?

Their first date (which didn't go well) was October 2011 I think, and her husband died end of February 2011. She says they met up casually to walk the dog several times before the date though.

 

[Alyce]

I think she was about to go live as in on a live TV report.

I don't believe anyone is purely evil but I do know someone committed an evil act wrt to Helen and Boris. IS was arrested before the bodies were found, right? Was he charged?

That'll teach me to read properly first time round !

 

[Alyce]

Their first date (which didn't go well) was October 2011 I think, and her husband died end of February 2011. She says they met up casually to walk the dog several times before the date though.

He comments on her blog ( I will find it and post it again ) in August 2011.
Helen talks of their chatting ( on line ) .
She then says IS took himself off FB.
She then says he got back in touch in August 2011 - so there must have been contact ( on line, not in person ) from at least July 2011.

 

[cottonweaver]

Thanks for at least considering my ramblings Cottonweaver it's what I come to websleuth for, 2 way debate and discussion

snipped just 'cause it's still on same page.

I agree, diversity of opinion is good. When I write stuff I do pause and think am I projecting either my experiences or those close to me, or making huge assumptions - but I carry on and do it anyway. :blushing:

PS when I said "We", i meant all of us, definitely including you.

 

[Cherwell]

Their first date (which didn't go well) was October 2011 I think, and her husband died end of February 2011. She says they met up casually to walk the dog several times before the date though.

I never really understood that. The difference between meetings. If you meet someone and get on well enough to want to meet up with them regularly, I don't see why one meeting should suddenly get invested with huge significance and escalated to "a date".

 

[Squamous]

I never really understood that. The difference between meetings. If you meet someone and get on well enough to want to meet up with them regularly, I don't see why one meeting should suddenly get invested with huge significance and escalated to "a date".

Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? I imagine there the bereavement came into it a lot. I think the date in question was going to the National Gallery and the theatre which is one of the things that meant my initial impression of IS was so different to the one we're getting now.

Interesting that IS said nothing to the police about Helen being anxious about her own health/sleepiness/forgetfulness!

 

[Alyce]

Court resumes

The case is now back on, with jurors coming back into the court room.

The rest of the second video interview with Stewart will now be played.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I never really understood that. The difference between meetings. If you meet someone and get on well enough to want to meet up with them regularly, I don't see why one meeting should suddenly get invested with huge significance and escalated to "a date".

I am guessing that maybe there was a sign of personal interest/affection for it to be attributed to being a date. Maybe going out to dinner or some other event as a couple. Walking dogs doesn't fall into my idea of a date - friendship yes, date no.

 

[Cherwell]

Yes, it's interesting, isn't it? I imagine there the bereavement came into it a lot. I think the date in question was going to the National Gallery and the theatre which is one of the things that meant my initial impression of IS was so different to the one we're getting now.

I am guessing that maybe there was a sign of personal interest/affection for it to be attributed to being a date. Maybe going out to dinner or some other event as a couple. Walking dogs doesn't fall into my idea of a date - friendship yes, date no.

I tend to think once you're out of your teens, maybe 20s, the whole concept of a "date" is a bit, well, outdated! Once you're older it becomes more about spending time with someone you get on well with, sharing things you both enjoy and perhaps seeing if anything develops.

IB - mmm, perhaps he made a pass at her! and it was too soon ....

 

[mrazda71]

You're quite wrong there, as far as I am concerned. I would expect her brother to sound reasonably well-spoken, so would be surprised if his voice sounded uneducated, as IS's voice came over to me. And I did expect IS to have a more pleasant voice than we heard. A voice can be very seductive*, but his certainly isn't.

*Roose Bolton in Game Of Thrones! An evil character, but oh what a gorgeous voice

Why would you 'expect' Helens brother to be well spoken? and why would it matter?

Haven't watching GOT so not a clue.

 

[ColourPurple]

I think my memory is playing tricks. For some reason I thought IS first spent time with Helen a year after her husband's death. So did she start seeing him almost immediately after losing her husband?

It's been reported that they first met through a facebook group, 7 months after her husbands death. Not sure if that means in person though and Helen wrote about how when they did meet she told him she didn't want a relationship and he said neither did he.

 

[Alyce]

I'm still trying to get fitter'

In the video interview, Stewart is asked about what he did on the weekend before Helen went missing.

&#8220;It&#8217;s very sketchy, on the Saturday or Sunday was the first time I went for a drive after my operation. Jamie came with me and we went in the Jeep.

&#8220;I can&#8217;t remember where we went, we might have just gone to get some dog food or something.

&#8220;[Helen and I] would have got up, had breakfast, then walked the dog.

&#8220;Then we would have come home. We would have had lunch together, but I don&#8217;t particularly remember what we had.

&#8220;I have no recollection of that at all, but we must have had it.&#8221;

Stewart is looking at the calendar on his phone.

&#8220;On that Saturday Jamie played bowls in the morning. His girlfriend Alex stayed that night.

&#8220;On the Sunday we went out for a dog walk in the morning, because I was trying to get fitter. I&#8217;m still trying to get fitter.&#8221;

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486


my comment - Alex is OSs g/f isn't she ?

 

[Squamous]

I tend to think once you're out of your teens, maybe 20s, the whole concept of a "date" is a bit, well, outdated! Once you're older it becomes more about spending time with someone you get on well with, sharing things you both enjoy and perhaps seeing if anything develops.

IB - mmm, perhaps he made a pass at her!

I think Helen said it was the contrast of dressing up and going "out" together that made it a date. I think lots was tied up with feeling treacherous towards her late husband to be going out for an evening with someone else. I think maybe it felt like a natural progression until she went and felt totally freaked out by it. I don't think it was a reflection on IS himself.

 

[Alyce]

The scene at home

Stewart said he and Helen watched football on TV and Helen made cottage pie on the Sunday.

“That was one of Helen’s specialities. I do remember a long dog walk.

“When we got back Jamie and Oliver were playing football in the garden.

“Helen kept Boris inside because he gets overexcited with footballs.

“I don’t remember much else.


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486


my comment/edit - from Jamie's evidence, he said Helen made the cottage pie on the Saturday.
From Oliver's evidence, he said he was not at the house on the Sunday

and. although I wouldn't normally feel the need to do so, I will add a rider here that I am not casting aspersions on earlier evidence, it may all be explained down the line....just thought I would add that to avoid a possible lecture.

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm still trying to get fitter'

In the video interview, Stewart is asked about what he did on the weekend before Helen went missing.

“It’s very sketchy, on the Saturday or Sunday was the first time I went for a drive after my operation. Jamie came with me and we went in the Jeep.

“I can’t remember where we went, we might have just gone to get some dog food or something.

“[Helen and I] would have got up, had breakfast, then walked the dog.

“Then we would have come home. We would have had lunch together, but I don’t particularly remember what we had.

“I have no recollection of that at all, but we must have had it.”

Stewart is looking at the calendar on his phone.

“On that Saturday Jamie played bowls in the morning. His girlfriend Alex stayed that night.

“On the Sunday we went out for a dog walk in the morning, because I was trying to get fitter. I’m still trying to get fitter.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486


my comment - Alex is OSs g/f isn't she ?

This is the slightly off weekend where the girlfriend says Helen said little and had her head down, isn't it, she assumed it was something to do with nerves in driving the Jeep?( Pls correct me someone.)

Anyway, this extract makes Helen feel like an "extra" in the house, for me. Not very close, not taking Helen out in the Jeep etc. I know he is ill but they've only been together 5 years.