GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

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  • #381
This is the slightly off weekend where the girlfriend says Helen said little and had her head down, isn't it, she assumed it was something to do with nerves in driving the Jeep?( Pls correct me someone.)

Anyway, this extract makes Helen feel like an "extra" in the house, for me. Not very close, not taking Helen out in the Jeep etc


MOO of course but I think Helen was very much the extra in the house....we have been told by several people now that she had difficulties with driving, confidence issues but no one seemed willing or able to help her with this, by going out with her for a drive


eta yes Cotton, it was the same week end where the g/f said Helen had head down, not speaking etc
 
  • #382
Kate Bradbrook ‏@katebradbrook 2m2 minutes ago

#helenbailey case: 2nd police interview with Ian Stewart being shown in court. Talking about day before/day of disappearance
 
  • #383
Why would you 'expect' Helens brother to be well spoken? and why would it matter?

Because she was an educated person, and it's natural to expect him to have a similar background.
I did not say it "matters". It is just general observation such as we all make constantly.

Haven't watching GOT so not a clue.

Never mind, the comment was general and not just addressed to you.
 
  • #384
The scene at home

Stewart said he and Helen watched football on TV and Helen made cottage pie on the Sunday.

“That was one of Helen’s specialities. I do remember a long dog walk.

“When we got back Jamie and Oliver were playing football in the garden.

“Helen kept Boris inside because he gets overexcited with footballs.

“I don’t remember much else.


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486


my comment/edit - from Jamie's evidence, he said Helen made the cottage pie on the Saturday.
From Oliver's evidence, he said he was not at the house on the Sunday

and. although I wouldn't normally feel the need to do so, I will add a rider here that I am not casting aspersions on earlier evidence, it may all be explained down the line....just thought I would add that to avoid a possible lecture.

just BIB - I wonder if there was some issue here, re. the dog. I know the boys liked him and IS himself used the word "it" and
" her dog" but would have thought that was such a superfluous detail - what the dog was doing in recounting the day.

ETA I got it now, the video is almost 3 wks later so legitimately he may have forgotten some details and just connects Boris to the footie game.
 
  • #385
just BIB - I wonder if there was some issue here, re. the dog. I know the boys liked him and IS himself used the word "it" and
" her dog" but would have thought that was such a superfluous detail - what the dog was doing in recounting the day.

ETA I got it now, the video is almost 3 wks later so legitimately he may have forgotten some details and just connects Boris to the footie game.


Interesting isn't it...there's so much IS can't remember and is vague about ( which may be true ) but he does remember Boris being kept inside. Was that perhaps because Boris was annoying him ?


eta...or could be as Cotton Weaver says above, the football game memory could have triggered the memory of Boris being kept inside
 
  • #386
It wasn't my intention to ruffle feathers with my comments this afternoon. I felt the thread was a bit <modsnip> one sided.
From posts of late we'd be led to believe that Ian is a psychopathic, narcissistic, sociopath who, despite being married to his first wife for twenty odd years has obviously murdered her too and then moved straight on to look for a vulnerable rich widow to murder and all this based on his voice in one phone call where he was clearing papping his pants and trying not to drop himself in it ... and failing!

I'm not Team Stewart and I didn't know Helen so I'm just being objective, basing my opinion on what we know as fact. Sorry if that's upset anyone.
 
  • #387
She was definitely upset, something had happened'

Stewart said he and Helen had no visitors on that weekend.

&#8220;We might have had some packages delivered&#8221; he said. He is now talking about Monday morning (April 11) - the day Helen disappeared.

He said: &#8220;Helen and I put some boxes and a quilt in the car.

The next thing I remember was Helen going out - she wanted some milk and something else. She went out in the jeep. When she came back she was very upset, saying &#8216;I&#8217;m never going to drive again&#8217;.

&#8220;She was definitely upset, something had happened.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t know what she was wearing. I&#8217;m guessing Boris could have been there, I don&#8217;t know.&#8221;

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486


my comment - why was he guessing whether or not Boris was there ? If Helen went out for milk, in the Jeep, she wouldnt take Boris surely, so he would be around and visible to IS.
plus in his earlier evidence he says, Helen had loaded up my car
 
  • #388
Interesting isn't it...there's so much IS can't remember and is vague about ( which may be true ) but he does remember Boris being kept inside. Was that perhaps because Boris was annoying him ?

agree and was also wondering about that very well kept garden and if there was some tension in the air about a boisteroud kick- about. I'm just not buying everything is due to HB's nerves and driving.



Post 388 -your comment of why mention Boris again- maybe it's like a slip - and he actually killed the dog first? Dunno?
PS Am sure you have all discounted this milk-shop-trip as fiction but feasibly anyone would ask why , if their OH came back and said , after 30 yrs of driving , wtte "that's it , I will never drive again."
 
  • #389
More from Helen's last weekend in Royston

Stewart is asked what&#8217;s in Helen&#8217;s hands when she comes back upset.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t know&#8221;, he answers.

Stewart said he remembers trying to calm Helen down and then later falling asleep, before waking up in pain due to his operation.

&#8220;I remember having to rush out. Helen had sorted some papers and put them on my desk. I took the papers and went outside.

&#8220;I&#8217;m pretty sure Helen waved at me from the dining room as I drove off. We do that pretty regularly.&#8221;


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486
 
  • #390
Me too, and it's a considerable expense. Ugh, I'm so angry!

So he proposed around the first anniversary of her husband's death and they kept it a secret. What a controlling and possessive thing to do.

She may have wanted to keep it a secret because she didn't want people judging her and saying it was too soon. I should imagine that some widows wouldn't approve of other widows remarrying again so soon. Jmo.
 
  • #391
The events of April 11...

Stewart is then explaining how he went to the rubbish tip, the doctor&#8217;s surgery and the solicitors on April 11, but tells officers that he can&#8217;t remember in which order he did so.

Stewart admits that himself and Helen didn&#8217;t set the house alarm when the dog, Boris, was at home.

He said: &#8220;He absolutely hates the noise, it must be a high pitched noise. He freaks out. It&#8217;s almost like he&#8217;s terrified.&#8221;


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486


my note - we know, from the evidence of the Surgery, that the doctors visit was 2.55pm to 3.07pm.
In earlier evidence IS said that the solicitor visit was his last visit of the day, before returning home. He said he got home round about 5pm
 
  • #392
It wasn't my intention to ruffle feathers with my comments this afternoon. I felt the thread was a bit Modsnip> one sided.
From posts of late we'd be led to believe that Ian is a psychopathic, narcissistic, sociopath who, despite being married to his first wife for twenty odd years has obviously murdered her too and then moved straight on to look for a vulnerable rich widow to murder and all this based on his voice in one phone call where he was clearing papping his pants and trying not to drop himself in it ... and failing!

I'm not Team Stewart and I didn't know Helen so I'm just being objective, basing my opinion on what we know as fact. Sorry if that's upset anyone.

I was reactive to your post because you had brought it up a number of times throughout the thread and I resented the implication that by saying something about someone being evil meant that you didn't understand the complexities of people. But I should have responded with a cooler head.

I do understand that Ian was not pure evil and that everything he ever did was not out of evil. However, the discussion of why he did certain things and to the depth of every little thing is to wonder on motive and how this all started.

For me, I saw all the missing posts on Twitter with Helen and I read the thread here on Websleuths and when everything came to light about IS, I was even more intrigued because, like you said, he's just a man. He's every man. He is the reason why crimes such as this are so scary - everyone said he was lovely, not a bad bone in his body... etc etc. He looks pretty harmless, sounds pretty harmless, acts pretty harmless - where are the warning signs?

That's what people are doing. They're just trying to associate warning signs to him, because that's how self-preservation works.

But alongside that, here is a man who IS evil in my book. Not in a fairytale kind of way, but in a he's a murderer kind of way. Yes, not inherently evil, but do we really let him get a pass because he's been a good boy previously?

I don't doubt Helen had her faults - we all do. The reason people weren't bringing them up is because it serves no purpose. Anything brought up about IS and his accent and/or underpants is simply observational, like 'that wasn't what I expected'. It doesn't mean he's this evil character because his voice doesn't sound how we expect...

He's not the sum of this one event. But this one event is so huge and so atrocious, you wonder if there were other events that preceded it. Hence looking at the wife.

<modsnip>

As you've mentioned, you're free to your opinion. But with that comes the freedom for others to have theirs and not feel like they'll be mocked or ridiculed for posting.

I think we all want the same thing in the end and that's for justice to be served.
 
  • #393
I haven't at any point 'defended' Ian at all. Not once. This is websleuth not MumsNet though ... the thread has got a bit 'ooh the cad, he's just pure evil' ... to just say 'he's evil' is to portray him as some character from a plot, as if just by hearing his voice or knowing what brand of underpants he wears is an obvious sign that he was 'always a wrong 'un' when in actual fact, he's just a man.

Don't you think its pretty evil to secretly drug your partner for months, play with her mind then murder her and dump her in a cess pit with her dog?

Normal men don't do that stuff.

Even bad men don't do that stuff.
 
  • #394
Selling the flat

Stewart said Helen cancelled an appointment at the solicitor&#8217;s a week before April 11, because she was feeling unwell.

&#8220;She was so tired and kept falling asleep. She rang up and rearranged&#8221;, he tells police.

&#8220;When I came back Helen wasn&#8217;t around. I found her note at some point on my desk.

&#8220;I spent some time seeing if she was around. Then I saw the other solicitor&#8217;s papers I should have taken.

&#8220;I knew Helen wanted to get on with the selling [of her flat] so I got back in the car and went to the solicitors.

&#8220;I dumped the papers there and came back again.&#8221;


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486



my comment - in earlier evidence we have IS saying that he was out from about 3 to 5pm ( would have been 2.45pm latest in order to get to Surgery just before 3pm ).
Now it appears that he must have come back to the house at some point before 5pm.
He sees the note - on his desk - and then goes back to the solicitors with the rest of the papers.
Most solicitors close at 5pm.
This does not fit with his evidence on the 999 call ( which was actually a 101 call ) that he got home at 5pm and this is the first time he sees the note - soon after he gets in, he estimates it was about 5.15pm
 
  • #395
  • #396
  • #397
But alongside that, here is a man who IS evil in my book. Not in a fairytale kind of way, but in a he's a murderer kind of way. Yes, not inherently evil, but do we really let him get a pass because he's been a good boy previously?

Again - my personal experience of a sociopath

They were very charming to everyone. People love this sociopath.

It took a long time to discover and realise how deceitful and dreadful they were.

There is literally nothing they would not do to pursue their emotional abuse.

In my opinion this is an evil person. There is no other word for it.

But one of the biggest challenges is that so few people see their true nature, and thus everyone is confused about the why.
 
  • #398
Again - my personal experience of a sociopath

They were very charming to everyone. People love this sociopath.

It took a long time to discover and realise how deceitful and dreadful they were.

There is literally nothing they would not do to pursue their emotional abuse.

In my opinion this is an evil person. There is no other word for it.

But one of the biggest challenges is that so few people see their true nature, and thus everyone is confused about the why.

No, I'm entirely with you on this... :) I definitely think he was a sociopath and have no qualms about calling him evil. I was just trying to explain that even though someone doesn't display evil behaviours at all times, it doesn't mean they're not evil. I meant inherently in this instance as 'perpetually' as opposed to 'permanently', although I probably should have chosen my wording better.

Sociopathy and psychopathy are my bag, so I completely understand how cunning and manipulative they can be. I have personal experience of psychopaths and they ain't afraid of playing a long game, I know that much!
 
  • #399
I think she was about to go live as in on a live TV report.

I don't believe anyone is purely evil but I do know someone committed an evil act wrt to Helen and Boris. IS was arrested before the bodies were found, right? Was he charged?

Yes, IS was certainly arrested before Helen's body, and Boris's were discovered. The police arrested him on suspicion of murder on Mon 11th July a full four days before discovering the body. He was charged with murder the day after discovery, on Fri 16th July. It's a significant point and hasn't been mentioned much but goes to show how much he had incriminated himself through his actions, behaviour and demeanour. The style and attitude of his 15th April 101 phone call (much analysed already here) must have raised red flags with the Police and they paid him close attention from that point on.
 
  • #400
Yes, he never misses an opportunity to dismiss her achievements as a writer, which were impressive as evidenced by her wealth and media profile. The fact that she was a public figure only adds to his breathtaking arrogance in taking her life and believing he would get away with it, unchallenged.
What were Helen's hobbies?'

Stewart is asked about Helen’s hobbies.

He said redecorating the house had been her main hobby ‘besides the writing’ since they had moved to Royston.

“She did Pilates for a while in Meldreth but passed out because she twisted her leg wrongly.”


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-royston-12491486




my comment - he describes a successful author's work as a hobby ?
 
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