GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[mbmc]

I think there is only one sports car, the MG. Police said it was parked in front of Helen's fiat and the Zafira ( one of the sons car ) and had a blanket over it. It is SORN so would make sense it's in the garage, although not why it would be parked in front of the other cars ? Maybe that's just me reading too much into the description. It was probably in front of the Fiat which Helen didnt seem to use.

I took it to mean that the two cars were parked facing inwards so the covered car was in front of them but at the back of the garage? Hope that makes sense.


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[cottonweaver]

BBM I guess the reason we are seeing so many flaws in his story though is that all those mistakes he made were because there was always the intention that Helen was never found. I believe he thought there would be a high level of decomposition very quickly and that eventually there would be no trace. Particularly as more time was passing...

The rest of everything was biding time and, when Helen's body was found, it was a panicked response to the obvious having been exposed.

I actually think that if this had gone to trial without Helen's body having been found, there would be enough reasonable doubt that he probably would have got away with it. Thank god they found the cesspit!

Joe and Nick seem like a last ditch attempt and, actually, I think his defence team are doing a very good job with what they have... they're raising questions that, even I, 100% convinced of his guilt, am thinking 'hmmm, what happened there then?'

There are too many mistakes... but I just think it's because he wasn't expecting her to be found.

BIB Agree that's a real possibility. We've got a septic tank here and I know we haven't needed any emptying in 7 years..... anyway. After I posted the MG car question it did lead me to have a mooch on the obvious SM sites ( I didn't bother doing that last year but yes inferences can be drawn if you have a mind to in respect of pages visited, dates of one-letter comments and lack of acknowledgement by others etc etc. )

 

[ZaZara]

Thinking aloud here but I still haven't found out , from last year, if this was an active septic tank and he may have never needed it emptied and I'll never know if he planned to move the remains a few years down the line or simply live at the house until he died.

RSBM

IMHO it would have been very difficult to remove the remains after a few years without at least breaking the floor, and how would he explain that? (if he managed at all.) And where would he take the remains?

I assumed all along that the cesspit in the garage was no longer in use, but still 'active' as part of the sewage system. The second cesspit on the other side of the garage would be the overflow for the first cesspit.
If there never had been a need to clean the second pit during the time that HB and IS lived there, as IS claims, the second pit is possibly connected to the sewerage.

I wonder if these questions will be answered during the trial. Can't think of a legal reason, perhaps as general background only. The jurors may have been given an explanation when they visited the location.

IMHO HB was never to be found and IS would probably have continued living in the house for a while.

There was a bizarre story in Germany a while ago. A man had killed his wife, but it was assumed that she had left the area, if I remember well. He kept her remains in oil drums and took those drums with him every time he moved house for over 30 years.

 

[Squamous]

I took it to mean that the two cars were parked facing inwards so the covered car was in front of them but at the back of the garage? Hope that makes sense.


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There is something that fits with this description in one of the garage photos.

 

[Squamous]

It also strikes me as a very cowardly murder done by someone who didn't really want to think about what he was doing/had done. I don't think he would have had any plans to revisit the pit.

 

[neteditor]

Wouldn't the prosecution also be in attendance in that case? And would the defendant's presence be necessary?

If only the defence is in attendance, then it is likely only some very boring point of law that they are seeking direction from the judge on. Could be any number of things but if it doesn't include the prosecution, then it's not likely to be anything that requires argument from them.

That said, I remember in one horrific murder trial in the 90s, the jury hadn't been sworn in yet when the defence asked for a hearing with the judge. Turned out another defendant in a different case had coughed (bragging) to this murder also. Can't see something like that having happened, unless Nick and Joe have turned up

 

[Duchy]

Am wondering what this stuff in court today is about. Perhaps the judge saying to him "come on Mr Stewart, the evidence here against you is shocking, are you sure you don't wish to change your plea".


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Maybe they are preparing him to go on the stand?

 

[pinklilies]

Going back to the money, I initially thought the £600 was an allowance to IS but on reading this it doesn't state that.

.........

On the day of the murder, the court heard, Stewart raided her bank account, increasing a monthly standing order from £600 to £4,000 from her account to their joint account.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...y-childrens-author-killed-partner-court-hears

So, it was from helens account to a joint account. I'm thinking maybe they had the joint account to pay the utility bills and probably they both had standing orders transferring funds in to it. It doesn't change the fact he would still have access to the higher amount with it being a joint account but it changes my assumption that the £600 was an allowance to IS.

 

[DollyDiamond]

RSBM

IMHO it would have been very difficult to remove the remains after a few years without at least breaking the floor, and how would he explain that? (if he managed at all.) And where would he take the remains?

I assumed all along that the cesspit in the garage was no longer in use, but still 'active' as part of the sewage system. The second cesspit on the other side of the garage would be the overflow for the first cesspit.
If there never had been a need to clean the second pit during the time that HB and IS lived there, as IS claims, the second pit is possibly connected to the sewerage.

I wonder if these questions will be answered during the trial. Can't think of a legal reason, perhaps as general background only. The jurors may have been given an explanation when they visited the location.

IMHO HB was never to be found and IS would probably have continued living in the house for a while.

There was a bizarre story in Germany a while ago. A man had killed his wife, but it was assumed that she had left the area, if I remember well. He kept her remains in oil drums and took those drums with him every time he moved house for over 30 years.

Dear God, the oil drum story is extraordinary! But the lengths to which murderers will go to achieve their ends and avoid detection never ceases to astonish. On a very basic level - it takes a very particular mind to take a life in a premeditated murder and spend every minute afterwards awaiting the knock on the door or the hand on the shoulder - followed by the cold handcuff on the wrist! I guess those capable of such an act of breathtaking selfishness (and audacity) are also capable of believing they deserve to get away with it and will do. For those of us not predisposed to such acts it is extremely hard to get inside the mind and logic of those who are.

 

[cottonweaver]

It also strikes me as a very cowardly murder done by someone who didn't really want to think about what he was doing/had done. I don't think he would have had any plans to revisit the pit.

Yes imagine the implications though. I was thinking that if he did not and lived there 'til he died himself, bequeathed the house in turn to his sons.........


(my original post was based on still not establishing the type of septic/was it an active septic etc. )

 

[Legally Bland]

I took it to mean that the two cars were parked facing inwards so the covered car was in front of them but at the back of the garage? Hope that makes sense.


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There is something that fits with this description in one of the garage photos.

Yeah, on the left at the back looks like it could be an MG under dust sheets.

Bigger pic at link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...5million-home-lived-fianc-accused-murder.html

 

[Interested Bystander]

Yes imagine the implications though. I was thinking that if he did not and lived there 'til he died himself, bequeathed the house in turn to his sons.........


(my original post was based on still not establishing the type of septic/was it an active septic etc. )

I think he might have moved out. Cannot be great knowing someone you murdered is laying rotting only metres from you OR maybe he would just think he has been very clever and was smug. I do wonder what his boys think. Jamie has possibly twigged but Oliver has been visiting him every week and probably thinks his dad is innocent.

 

[Squamous]

I feel so sorry for those poor lads. What an utter nightmare the last few years have been for them. The footage of them arriving at court made me want to cry.

 

[cottonweaver]

I think he might have moved out. Cannot be great knowing someone you murdered is laying rotting only metres from you OR maybe he would just think he has been very clever and was smug. I do wonder what his boys think. Jamie has possibly twigged but Oliver has been visiting him every week and probably thinks his dad is innocent.

Yes IB. It seems so from the evidence we have heard from the two sons. Awful. Any disunity won't help them deal with this.

If it's something( not active) that never needs emptying it's possible he'd leave it and not worry whose problem the evidence might become. ( even active sewage won't destroy bones AFAIK but am not convinced that the suction hoses ( for the drainage clear companies ) that I've seen would never detect certain objects during the drainage op - just from the companies trucks I see near me. ( The diameter. Am trying to be vague rather than graphic. )

Maybe all this - leaving evidence that might affect your sons lives - is not the sort of thing that Ian Stewart worries about?

 

[Florrie]

I feel so sorry for those poor lads. What an utter nightmare the last few years have been for them. The footage of them arriving at court made me want to cry.

It must be a living nightmare for them both. They must absolutely wonder what to think about it all. Unless of course there is unsaid stuff which hasn't been revealed.
I agree that I think Jamie has already twigged but the younger brother Oliver is more vulnerable to it all...just by dint of being the youngest, it must be such a hard thing to believe of a loved parent.
Then again even when evidence is overwhelming some relatives will ignore it and go down the "but he/she is innocent" line.

One thing this case and this discussion here has prompted is for me to read much more about sociopathy and psychopathy.


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[Alyce]

RSBM

IMHO it would have been very difficult to remove the remains after a few years without at least breaking the floor, and how would he explain that? (if he managed at all.) And where would he take the remains?

I assumed all along that the cesspit in the garage was no longer in use, but still 'active' as part of the sewage system. The second cesspit on the other side of the garage would be the overflow for the first cesspit.
If there never had been a need to clean the second pit during the time that HB and IS lived there, as IS claims, the second pit is possibly connected to the sewerage.

I wonder if these questions will be answered during the trial. Can't think of a legal reason, perhaps as general background only. The jurors may have been given an explanation when they visited the location.

IMHO HB was never to be found and IS would probably have continued living in the house for a while.

There was a bizarre story in Germany a while ago. A man had killed his wife, but it was assumed that she had left the area, if I remember well. He kept her remains in oil drums and took those drums with him every time he moved house for over 30 years.

BIB so how did Helen and Boris end up underneath 9 inches of crust ( sorry, not nice to type that ) in the space of 3 months. Would there be enough waste matter going into the tank in that time to form this layer ?
Somehow I cant see IS taking the time to put the body underneath this crust, as he was not expecting the tank to ever be checked.

 

[Alyce]

I took it to mean that the two cars were parked facing inwards so the covered car was in front of them but at the back of the garage? Hope that makes sense.


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Thanks, yes that does make sense now

 

[Florrie]

BIB so how did Helen and Boris end up underneath 9 inches of crust ( sorry, not nice to type that ) in the space of 3 months. Would there be enough waste matter going into the tank in that time to form this layer ?
Somehow I cant see IS taking the time to put the body underneath this crust, as he was not expecting the tank to ever be checked.

We haven't heard from experts yet but I suspect that might be answered at some point. For example if any additives were added to the tank etc.


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[Legally Bland]

BIB so how did Helen and Boris end up underneath 9 inches of crust ( sorry, not nice to type that ) in the space of 3 months. Would there be enough waste matter going into the tank in that time to form this layer ?
Somehow I cant see IS taking the time to put the body underneath this crust, as he was not expecting the tank to ever be checked.

I imagined it being similar to falling through ice. The crust breaks, body goes under, the crust floats back up above the body.

 

[Alyce]

Wasn't it the police who found those cards? They were in the bedroom I believe.

Correct ! I have just pulled the evidence back up, it was the police


Evidence from January 16
In the house during the site visit on Friday, there was a Christmas card, from Helen to Stewart, addressed to ‘my fiance’ in the couple’s bedroom, the court was told.

There was also a Valentine’s card along the same lines.


Oliver Stewart tells prosecution he hadn't seen any cards in father's bedroom from Helen Bailey describing him as her fiance