GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[Squamous]

BIB so how did Helen and Boris end up underneath 9 inches of crust ( sorry, not nice to type that ) in the space of 3 months. Would there be enough waste matter going into the tank in that time to form this layer ?
Somehow I cant see IS taking the time to put the body underneath this crust, as he was not expecting the tank to ever be checked.

I think they probably crashed through it, I doubt it would take the weight of a person, the police officer could break it up with a hoe.

I did wonder if Boris may not have been submerged though as it sounds like his body was much more decomposed than Helen's.

 

[Alyce]

It also strikes me as a very cowardly murder done by someone who didn't really want to think about what he was doing/had done. I don't think he would have had any plans to revisit the pit.

I agree. I have always said that I think it was a very passive murder ( if murder can ever be called passive ).

IS, to me, is not a man who wants to get his hands dirty in any way.........and despite the fact that I think he was more than recovered enough from his operation to be able to carry out the murder, at the same time, he is hardly a fit specimen ( putting it politely ) and with his ongoing M Gravis problem, he would of necessity have to choose the easiest, for him, method of murder.

 

[ZaZara]

BIB so how did Helen and Boris end up underneath 9 inches of crust ( sorry, not nice to type that ) in the space of 3 months. Would there be enough waste matter going into the tank in that time to form this layer ?
Somehow I cant see IS taking the time to put the body underneath this crust, as he was not expecting the tank to ever be checked.

I suppose they fell through, or were pushed underneath it.

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/publications/home-farm/individual-home-sewage-treatment-systems



The material in the septic tank separates into three distinct layers:

A top layer of floating scum
A middle liquid zone
A bottom layer of sludge

The scum layer consists primarily of cooking fats and oils, soap scum and products of decomposition that are lighter than water. The greatest amount of bacterial action occurs in the sludge layer, which consists of solids heavier than water.

More info: https://www.marshallsgroup.com/septic tanks.aspx

 

[Alyce]

Going back to the money, I initially thought the £600 was an allowance to IS but on reading this it doesn't state that.

.........

On the day of the murder, the court heard, Stewart raided her bank account, increasing a monthly standing order from £600 to £4,000 from her account to their joint account.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...y-childrens-author-killed-partner-court-hears

So, it was from helens account to a joint account. I'm thinking maybe they had the joint account to pay the utility bills and probably they both had standing orders transferring funds in to it. It doesn't change the fact he would still have access to the higher amount with it being a joint account but it changes my assumption that the £600 was an allowance to IS.

Oh yes indeed. Makes a lot of sense that it could have been a transfer to a household account.
And, the only account he could access legally, being as it was joint.

 

[Alyce]

Yes IB. It seems so from the evidence we have heard from the two sons. Awful. Any disunity won't help them deal with this.

If it's something( not active) that never needs emptying it's possible he'd leave it and not worry whose problem the evidence might become. ( even active sewage won't destroy bones AFAIK but am not convinced that the suction hoses ( for the drainage clear companies ) that I've seen would never detect certain objects during the drainage op - just from the companies trucks I see near me. ( The diameter. Am trying to be vague rather than graphic. )

Maybe all this - leaving evidence that might affect your sons lives - is not the sort of thing that Ian Stewart worries about?

Probably thought it would never be looked at...and if it did, at some stage need a clean out, I bet he would have done a bit of homework re how long it takes a body to disintegrate etc, and would possibly have stumbled across the lye solution.

I dont think he would have moved out, ever. That house was his status symbol, local boy made it to the top ( not on his own merits of course, but hey, who knew that ).

 

[Squamous]

I don't know if I speak for anyone else but I know know more than I ever desired to know about septic tanks and cesspits. It really is unutterably vile that someone saw fit to treat the bodies of Helen and Boris in that way.

 

[Alyce]

I suppose they fell through, or were pushed underneath it.

https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/publications/home-farm/individual-home-sewage-treatment-systems

View attachment 108419

The material in the septic tank separates into three distinct layers:

A top layer of floating scum
A middle liquid zone
A bottom layer of sludge

The scum layer consists primarily of cooking fats and oils, soap scum and products of decomposition that are lighter than water. The greatest amount of bacterial action occurs in the sludge layer, which consists of solids heavier than water.

More info: https://www.marshallsgroup.com/septic tanks.aspx

Ah thanks...and to everyone else who has commented re this.

I was thinking how did so much crust form in 3 months, but the reality is, the crust was already there, Helen fell through it, and it just reformed over 3 months, which is very believable.

 

[cottonweaver]

Probably thought it would never be looked at...and if it did, at some stage need a clean out, I bet he would have done a bit of homework re how long it takes a body to disintegrate etc, and would possibly have stumbled across the lye solution.

I dont think he would have moved out, ever. That house was his status symbol, local boy made it to the top ( not on his own merits of course, but hey, who knew that ).

Alyce I am sure you wrote somewhere that you know this area of Cambs. or had driven past the Royston Home. I had a look at Ian's old home that he shared with Diane and I noticed that that was a converted barn. I couldn't find the age but I did idly wonder if that was not on mains sewage.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23400771.html

Ultimately it doesn't matter but it had never occurred to me as a place to hide a body and it's such an odd thing for the old owner to say about H.Lodge IF it was likely to be ever drained. (Appreciate all systems are different and no idea how long it takes for an inactive system to clear of crust. Could be decades.)

I'm only idly wondering as there was no hearing today so there's nothing new today.... so what might he be happy to leave the following occupants to deal with- whoever they may be - after he himself had died.

 

[Cherwell]

There was indeed also the note one son thought was from Helen but turned out to be from IS to Helen in case she turned up while he was gone. I don't think we've had the full story on who realised that it was IS' writing...

No, indeed, I'm sure there's some backstory there !

I assumed all along that the cesspit in the garage was no longer in use, but still 'active' as part of the sewage system. The second cesspit on the other side of the garage would be the overflow for the first cesspit.
If there never had been a need to clean the second pit during the time that HB and IS lived there, as IS claims, the second pit is possibly connected to the sewerage.

I wonder if these questions will be answered during the trial. Can't think of a legal reason, perhaps as general background only. The jurors may have been given an explanation when they visited the location.

I don't suppose we will hear much about it. As you say, it will all have been covered during the house visit, and it's unlikely they would need to go over it again in court.

 

[Duchy]

Oh yes indeed. Makes a lot of sense that it could have been a transfer to a household account.
And, the only account he could access legally, being as it was joint.

But how did he access her account? Surely she had a different password to that?

 

[Squamous]

If it's something( not active) that never needs emptying it's possible he'd leave it and not worry whose problem the evidence might become. ( even active sewage won't destroy bones AFAIK but am not convinced that the suction hoses ( for the drainage clear companies ) that I've seen would never detect certain objects during the drainage op - just from the companies trucks I see near me. ( The diameter. Am trying to be vague rather than graphic. )

This concerned me when they talked about the moments leading up to the discovery of Helen and Boris. The contractor tried to just go straight in with his mega hose, and only the crust delayed him. I don't know if anyone even shone a torch in before the contractor started. If the crust had been less crusty I think there could have been some serious loss of evidence. I don't know how they emptied it in the end or how that was co-ordinated with making the hole in the side to recover the remains of the two of them. I'm kind of glad I don't know, and don't expect to be told, I just like detail.

 

[Alyce]

Alyce I am sure you wrote somewhere that you know this area of Cambs. or had driven past the Royston Home. I had a look at Ian's old home that he shared with Diane and I noticed that that was a converted barn. I couldn't find the age but I did idly wonder if that was not on mains sewage.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23400771.html

Ultimately it doesn't matter but it had never occurred to me as a place to hide a body and it's such an odd thing for the old owner to say about H.Lodge IF it was likely to be ever drained. (Appreciate all systems are different and no idea how long it takes for an inactive system to clear of crust. Could be decades.)

I'm only idly wondering as there was no hearing today so there's nothing new today.... so what might he be happy to leave the following occupants to deal with- whoever they may be - after he himself had died.

I know Royston but not Bassingbourn. I mean I know where it is, but have never driven through it.

I found this re the area immediately south of Poplar Farm Close. A proposal for further homes to be built.
Clearly there is mains sewerage in place to accommodate this proposed new site, so would expect ISs old home to be within that range also.

Mains sewerage – there is sufficient capacity at the waste water
treatment works to accommodate development of this site,
however the sewerage network is approaching capacity and a
pre-development assessment will be required to ascertain the
specific capacity of the system with regards to this site. If any
mitigation is deemed necessary this will be funded by the
developer

https://www.scambs.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documents/08. Appendix 7i - Bassingbourn.pdf

 

[Alyce]

But how did he access her account? Surely she had a different password to that?

Somewhere, right at the beginning, when Helen was still thought to be missing, the Superintendent made a remark about how IS had all Helen's passwords for her on line activity/websites/FB etc which the police found to be very helpful, saved them work.
I imagine, from this, that he had Helen's bank passwords as well.

 

[Alyce]

Alyce I am sure you wrote somewhere that you know this area of Cambs. or had driven past the Royston Home. I had a look at Ian's old home that he shared with Diane and I noticed that that was a converted barn. I couldn't find the age but I did idly wonder if that was not on mains sewage.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-23400771.html

Ultimately it doesn't matter but it had never occurred to me as a place to hide a body and it's such an odd thing for the old owner to say about H.Lodge IF it was likely to be ever drained. (Appreciate all systems are different and no idea how long it takes for an inactive system to clear of crust. Could be decades.)

I'm only idly wondering as there was no hearing today so there's nothing new today.... so what might he be happy to leave the following occupants to deal with- whoever they may be - after he himself had died.

Just having a look at those property details....the spec gives a sewage cost per month, so that looks to me as though he was hooked up

Water Supply £15 Sewerage £29 Estimated water cost £44 /mo


http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/5-poplar-farm-close/bassingbourn/royston/sg8-5na/21339940

 

[Interested Bystander]

Looks quite a large SD property. If he has not worked for years maybe his wife or her family had money to help them out or his wife had a good job. I don't know what it would have cost when he first bought it but Zoopla or Rightmove give historical prices. £500,000 now for a S/D is a quite a good price (unless one lives in London or the suburbs). OR maybe that selling price was way after he left the area. Possibly it has been bought and sold between times.

EDIT
It could be that he bought it way back in the 1990's for which there are no prices. He was married 20 years when his wife died, so he probably lived there 25 years or so ago.. If it is anything like our property 37 years ago we bought it for £55,000 and it is now worth £600,000 (crazy prices). So maybe the fact that he did not work was not so important as the mortgage would not have been too horrendous.

 

[Florrie]

Slight change of subject here but having read Helen's book about grief I think domestic violence could be an issue. Helen's first husband sounded psychologically very abusive at times from her descriptions of him. She talked of treading on eggshells for fear of upsetting him, how things would go wrong for him and she would be blamed. After his death and after counselling she talked of how the 'rose tinted glasses came off" and she saw his behaviours at these times as unacceptable. Her description of some incidents had me shocked to be honest.

One of the hard things with emotional and psychological abuse is that it's very low key. The person is lovely much of the time but the partner treads on eggshells in the pursuit of keeping the status quo and not upsetting the balance, not challenging things.

Women's Aid offer a course called The Freedom Program which helps susceptible women recognise the behaviours and red flags which might indicate a future partner is likely to be abusive.
I do wonder if the grief therapist having helped Helen identify these issues in her late husband managed to tie those behaviours in with abuse. It is such a shame that having recognised these issues with her late husband that she didn't get a chance to explore this further. I wonder if IS had danger signals that might have made her wary.

Helen does say in her book that in the last year of her late husbands life she began to challenge him much more about things. She put that down to being more confident and no longer the young woman who thought he knew everything and was always right.


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[Alyce]

Tomorrow's listing


The Crown Court at St Albans
Daily List for Wednesday 25 January 2017 at BRICKET ROAD ST ALBANS


Court 1 - sitting at 10:00 AM

HIS HONOUR JUDGE BRIGHT QC

For Mention
U20170030 PRODUCTION ORDER (PR)


Link to Ersou South
U20170031 PRODUCTION ORDER X 2 (KP)


Link to Police HQ Welwyn Garden City

Trial (Part Heard)
T20167121 STEWART Ian
41E12190616
PAPER FILE

Published: 24 January 2017 at 16:04



ERSOU South is Eastern Region Special Operations Unit, covering Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire, Cambridge and Essex.

 

[Squamous]

Slight change of subject here but having read Helen's book about grief I think domestic violence could be an issue. Helen's first husband sounded psychologically very abusive at times from her descriptions of him. She talked of treading on eggshells for fear of upsetting him, how things would go wrong for him and she would be blamed. After his death and after counselling she talked of how the 'rose tinted glasses came off" and she saw his behaviours at these times as unacceptable. Her description of some incidents had me shocked to be honest.

One of the hard things with emotional and psychological abuse is that it's very low key. The person is lovely much of the time but the partner treads on eggshells in the pursuit of keeping the status quo and not upsetting the balance, not challenging things.

Women's Aid offer a course called The Freedom Program which helps susceptible women recognise the behaviours and red flags which might indicate a future partner is likely to be abusive.
I do wonder if the grief therapist having helped Helen identify these issues in her late husband managed to tie those behaviours in with abuse. It is such a shame that having recognised these issues with her late husband that she didn't get a chance to explore this further. I wonder if IS had danger signals that might have made her wary.

Helen does say in her book that in the last year of her late husbands life she began to challenge him much more about things. She put that down to being more confident and no longer the young woman who thought he knew everything and was always right.


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I agree with all of this. I was quite shocked by some of the things Helen spoke of too. I was very struck by the episode where JS said Boris would be his dog and he would do all his care and make all the dogsitting arrangements then, when they got him, behaved as if all the dog work was actually below him and it was Helen's job; threatening to return him to the breeder if she didn't do it! I suppose we are after all talking about a man who walked out on his wife and children for someone 19 years his junior (I should probably say here that I'm the stay at home parent here with the busy working husband so naturally would side with JS' ex!). There was some very unhealthy stuff there and it did make me wonder that someone who showed her more humility and kindness would be able to charm her very quickly.

 

[Cherwell]

I think it should also been borne in mind that you're only getting one side of the story.

 

[Florrie]

I think it should also been borne in mind that you're only getting one side of the story.

True and to be fair Helen's late husband can't defend anything she has written now. But the stuff she identified was quite shocking .


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