GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[DollyDiamond]

I agree with Squamous. I don't think barking would be a worry, a dog barking would be an everyday sound. The neighbours at Broadstairs were quoted as saying that they would know when Helen was there because of hearing Boris barking.

Dolly, I disagree that "This man deserves to die in prison".
He deserves to die alone, shut into a dark stinking cesspit full of fumes and **** for as long as it takes.
That's what he deserves.

I can't disagree with that, you're right, prison is too good for him.

 

[DollyDiamond]

I'm afraid I'm still thinking that Boris went in that pit alive and was overcome by the fumes. I don't think his barking (if he did bark) would have alerted any suspicion. He was a barky sort of dog and the neighbours would be used to hearing him, and the neighbours are a bit of a distance away anyway.

I wondered if the scent on the bench was due to IS sitting there wearing the trousers that the dog indicated too.[/QUOT

I keep imagining IS in a highly over-wrought state, the adrenaline pumping, focusing his energies on 'completing the job' fast - and certainly before there's any danger of his sons returning home. We have seen from his mounting hysteria over the police investigation and repeated searches of his home, he is no cool customer! To my mind, his character points strongly to him having killed Helen and Boris in the house, safe from possible witnesses, ensuring it was silent, passive corpses he was transporting to the garage with no danger of them making any noise or resistance.

I appreciate had Boris been alive en route to the garage and barked, the neighbours would not necessarily have been alerted to anything sinister. But in the anxious frame of mind IS would have been in after attacking Helen I think the last thing he's have wanted during 'the clean-up operation' was a barking dog.

However, I guess it's possible he made two separate trips to the garage - dumped Helen's body first, leaving Boris alive in the house, then once he had done that lured Boris into the pillow case and 'reunited' him with Helen in the cess pit. I hope to God that is not the way Boris was killed. Though of course it is horrific whatever method was used. I note when Helen's late husband's former business partner took the stand he said Boris had replaced Helen and JS' previous dog Rufus and commented to the effect:

"Rufus died of old age - Boris was not so lucky". I think many people are rightly angry and disgusted at the additional murder of that poor unsuspecting little dog!

 

[Alyce]

apols, this is the bit about a possible rental I meant to add, to clarify my previous post



http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-week-12452783

So Helen possibly would have paid for the lion's share of that rental too?

This rental was before the 2014 date given by Alyce for sale going through of the old Stewart family home. ( And therefore the release of that cash.) Apols, I really need to refer to that financial timeline.


Diane's life insurance - Was it ever established?

also back to previous topic- cadets timing/IS in a rush?
"“I would’ve gone home to change. I did see dad, it was a brief conversation because dad knows my Monday night routine."

I think it is just the way the evidence is given that makes it sound rather formal.
I think the house Jamie refers to is his own house, where he lived with IS and Oliver. As you say, it was not sold until 2014, so they must have still been living there.

From Helen's book, the impression is given that she was still living in London until the end of July 2013, when she bought Hartwell Lodge and moved in on July 31.

So my best guess would be that Helen went up to Bassingbourn during those six months on a regular basis. She and IS were house hunting so she needed to be on the spot. Plus, as she didnt like driving on motorways too much, I think that rather than daily round trips, she stayed over at their house, for a few nights, even perhaps a week or so at a time.

This has been translated in the formal statement as Helen living with them and makes it sound permanent.

 

[pinklilies]

I'm afraid I'm still thinking that Boris went in that pit alive and was overcome by the fumes. I don't think his barking (if he did bark) would have alerted any suspicion. He was a barky sort of dog and the neighbours would be used to hearing him, and the neighbours are a bit of a distance away anyway.

I wondered if the scent on the bench was due to IS sitting there wearing the trousers that the dog indicated too.

Agree. Particularly if he had sat on helen's chest until she died, as mentioned further up. Then sat on the bench, contemplating what had just taken place.

 

[Alyce]

Photo from Daily Mail shows there is a path around the conservatory .... Is that a gate through to the drive?

View attachment 108698

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-man-55-suspicion-murder-disposing-body.html

Yes, there's a gate there in the large fence

 

[mbmc]

I just want to add my opinion on how someone like IS could hoodwink so many into thinking what a nice man he is, I was married to a man that was charm personified, everyone loved him, after 8 years (many of those in denial) l got away.

For the last 30 odd years I have observed him charm and fleece many women, without a blemish on his character.

The last one he swindled out of her million pound home, duping her into signing over half to him , and then when he left her demanding his half ......she took her own life.....he still to this day is "such a lovely man" and "what a tragedy it was" he made everyone believe what a troubled person she was and he still came up as smelling of roses.

Believe me what you see is not what you get.



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[mbmc]

I just want to add my opinion on how someone like IS could hoodwink so many into thinking what a nice man he is, I was married to a man that was charm personified, everyone loved him, after 8 years (many of those in denial) l got away.

For the last 30 odd years I have observed him charm and fleece many women, without a blemish on his character.

The last one he swindled out of her million pound home, duping her into signing over half to him , and then when he left her demanding his half ......she took her own life.....he still to this day is "such a lovely man" and "what a tragedy it was" he made everyone believe what a troubled person she was and he still came up as smelling of roses.

Believe me what you see is not always what you get.

Messed up editing..... Wanted to say not always......this is going to be messed up now......[emoji15]

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[Florrie]

Thank you for all these thoughts and updates.

I am more and more shocked by the way Helen was dumped in that cesspit with poor Boris.

I spent ages wondering about an accidental death as a result of an odd response to the Zopiclone and a panicked response to that scenario. However I think that can be virtually ruled out by his actions following this.

If it was a true accidental death then he could have realistically said that he found Helen dead and explained the Zopiclone by saying that she occasionally took one when unable to sleep. I doubt that would have lead to an examination of computers etc. Just death by misadventure.

I go more and more towards the theory that this is a very controlling man. It would be interesting to know the thoughts of his sons and the experience of him as a father. Although given everyone's description of him as "a lovely man" I doubt even talking to the sons would get answers.

He was slowly drugging Helen over several months, he had POA and perhaps hoped to leave her in a state where she felt unable to control her finances and affairs. She could quite easily have then given permission to her brother and IS to manage the money. Perhaps though that state was not happening fast enough.

The fact that Helen was doing searches on "why am I falling asleep all the time" shows clearly that she wasn't taking Zopiclone knowingly.

I have wondered regarding Boris whether IS simply got him into a bin bag and then smothered him with the duvet over the top. That would explain why he didn't get bitten by him [emoji26] .

Then the dumping of both their bodies in the cesspit by whatever method is a final insult. Him sitting on the toilet daily and more or less crapping on her. If anything shows his lack of respect and love for Helen it's this. It demonstrates hatred quite honestly.

Like others have said, I hope this man spends the rest of his miserable life in prison being haunted by Helen and Boris. With all the loss of dignity that prison life comes with.




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[Cherwell]

Yes, there's a gate there in the large fence

Aha. So he could have used that route from the back door to the garage, with only one step down to negotiate.
Not that it really matters - we have established that were easy ways to do it, whichever one he used.

 

[DollyDiamond]

I just want to add my opinion on how someone like IS could hoodwink so many into thinking what a nice man he is, I was married to a man that was charm personified, everyone loved him, after 8 years (many of those in denial) l got away.

For the last 30 odd years I have observed him charm and fleece many women, without a blemish on his character.

The last one he swindled out of her million pound home, duping her into signing over half to him , and then when he left her demanding his half ......she took her own life.....he still to this day is "such a lovely man" and "what a tragedy it was" he made everyone believe what a troubled person she was and he still came up as smelling of roses.

Believe me what you see is not what you get.



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Thanks for your very revealing and enlightening post - I too have had dealings with a ruthless, manipulative, sociopath. He duped me into marriage and I foolishly didn't realise for a very long time that my one and only appeal to him was my high salary! Like Helen I was an open book, and never questioned his motives - we had only been dating a few weeks when I took him up on his 'kind' offer to do my accounts for me and handed over a whole years worth of bank statements, thus giving him chapter and verse on my fabulous income (he proposed soon after).

So it doesn't surprise me one bit that people have said what a 'lovely' man IS was - people said the same about my ex. How lovable, cheerful and decent he was - and how obvious it was that he loved me! These people are chameleons who are scarily adept at playing the part people expect of them. This is how they manipulate and get their own way. Isn't it always the case when a ruthless killer is exposed - umpteen friends, neighbours (and relatives too) will step forward and say "I can't believe it - he was such a nice man!"

If only sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths had horns and fangs - we would all be onto them immediately, and their attempts at plotting and manipulation would not harm - or kill- other people.

 

[ZaZara]

that is certainly a much better plan than dragging a duvet across a lawn, or even taking the wheelie bin across the lawn.

I said, in one of my earlier musings ! that I thought IS took Helen out of the front door and put her into the car ( back seat of course not trunk ! ) and then drove down to the garage.
But using the wheelie bin would be just as good and in fact less hassle as her body is already inside the bin before he goes out of the house.

I hate to think of myself as making such plans, but somehow that is what I end up doing. :facepalm:

I guess having back pains like I do, or any other ailment makes you aware of different ways to bring about things, without using strength.
Earlier I wrote about how I got an arm chair out of my car and into the house without carrying or dragging it. I spoke about this with my physiotherapist when he had another go at my back and he was very interested. Of course he keeps hearing lots of stories about how his clients manage.

The key point is: you manage. That is a great thing by itself, and moreover, persons like IS do not fool you with their yarns. If I can think of a plan to get a body from the first floor down the stairs with little strength and still leave no traces either on the stairs or the body itself, then so could he.
If it happened in the kitchen instead of upstairs, that would be even easier, but the MO for transport to the garage would remain the same.

 

[mbmc]

Apologies for messing up posting, new to Tapatalk


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[icemaiden65]

Sadly that thought has struck me too - Helen was a reasonably young and healthy woman, even drugged with sleeping pills we know she had been lucid and emailing friends about wedding arrangement just that morning - she was dead by I think 2.30pm. So to me it seems unlikely she will have died quickly and easily, with no awareness of what was happening to her (this is another reason I believe he killed Helen before he killed Boris - IS could not have risked Helen being aware of him attacking her dog, that would have alerted her to his murderous intentions).

Even drugged, the body's reflex instinct is to breathe and to fight with every atom of strength to resist suffocation. I think IS will have had a battle on his hands to overcome her, and her end will not have been quiet or peaceful. She had no inkling of his intention to kill her, right up to the moment he pounced but when that moment came, I feel inevitably she'll have known, perhaps for a few seconds, what was being done to her and by whom.

The premeditated evil of these killings, the subsequent cover up and Not Guilty plea points to a very dangerous man and I hope that will be fully reflected in the sentencing. This man deserves to die in prison. I also hope he is visited in his dreams by Helen and Boris every night for the rest of his miserable life!

And here is where I tell you a little bit of my own story. My beloved Aunt, in her 80's and also my Godmother - very much loved and trusting/harmless - was murdered by a young ****/neighbour of hers a few years ago.........whom she trusted. For money. He stole £400 in cash - that's all. In the process he beat my darling Aunt to an unrecognisable pulp (she had to be identified from ONE single eye left intact) as she fought back and tried to crawl to the telephone for help. Then he set her on fire before she was even dead. He used an Oriental wall hanging which my parents had sent many decades earlier from our Far East trips.

He got 28 years, deductions were due to his guilty plea (blood/DNA splattered all over the house and his prints everywhere - I was even returned some of my own correspondence a while after - splattered with her blood stains) AND the fact that he was only just 20+. When will he be out? God only knows but I suspect it will be sooner than later. Needless to say the horror lives on, and on, and on. It truly isn't until you experience it first hand that murder takes hold of the rest of your life and, to be honest, almost destroys it. It's a feeling totally different to sleuthing, commenting and so on - it actually rips your whole being apart. For months on end, some nights I just stood in our garden and screamed aloud in anguish. I weep for Helen's family and still for my beloved Aunt. Please, if there is a God or some other force, let justice prevail for Helen and little Boris.

 

[DollyDiamond]

And here is where I tell you a little bit of my own story. My beloved Aunt, in her 80's and also my Godmother - very much loved and trusting/harmless - was murdered by a young ****/neighbour of hers a few years ago.........whom she trusted. For money. He stole £400 in cash - that's all. In the process he beat my darling Aunt to an unrecognisable pulp (she had to be identified from ONE single eye left intact) as she fought back and tried to crawl to the telephone for help. Then he set her on fire before she was even dead. He used an Oriental wall hanging which my parents had sent many decades earlier from our Far East trips.

He got 28 years, deductions were due to his guilty plea (blood/DNA splattered all over the house and his prints everywhere - I was even returned some of my own correspondence a while after - splattered with her blood stains) AND the fact that he was only just 20+. When will he be out? God only knows but I suspect it will be sooner than later. Needless to say the horror lives on, and on, and on. It truly isn't until you experience it first hand that murder takes hold of the rest of your life and, to be honest, almost destroys it. It's a feeling totally different to sleuthing, commenting and so on - it actually rips your whole being apart. For months on end, some nights I just stood in our garden and screamed aloud in anguish. I weep for Helen's family and still for my beloved Aunt. Please, if there is a God or some other force, let justice prevail for Helen and little Boris.

I am so sorry for your loss, and in such terrible, cruel circumstances! Thank you for bravely sharing that with us on the forum. You remind us powerfully that murder creates many victims. And it is always a life sentence without parole for the deceased's loved ones. I hope you won't mind me asking - if the killer is to be released, will your family be informed? God bless.

 

[Joely 123]

He could have just let Boris out in the garden then killed him as an afterthought when he realised it would look suspicious for Helen to leave without him.

There is the possibility that IS carried out his actions with Helen and the disposal of her body. He may have returned to the house - and possibly 'release' Boris from which ever room he was being contained ... then let Boris follow him back to the garage (a normal reaction for Boris) - where he could have either thrown Boris into the pit - let Boris jump in (if Boris could see Helen - it would be another normal reaction from Boris) and he may have even used the toy as extra impetus for Boris to jump in, with a dog's natural courage and love, to 'rescue' Helen.

 

[ZaZara]

Thanks for your very revealing and enlightening post - I too have had dealings with a ruthless, manipulative, sociopath. He duped me into marriage and I foolishly didn't realise for a very long time that my one and only appeal to him was my high salary! Like Helen I was an open book, and never questioned his motives - we had only been dating a few weeks when I took him up on his 'kind' offer to do my accounts for me and handed over a whole years worth of bank statements, thus giving him chapter and verse on my fabulous income (he proposed soon after).

So it doesn't surprise me one bit that people have said what a 'lovely' man IS was - people said the same about my ex. How lovable, cheerful and decent he was - and how obvious it was that he loved me! These people are chameleons who are scarily adept at playing the part people expect of them. This is how they manipulate and get their own way. Isn't it always the case when a ruthless killer is exposed - umpteen friends, neighbours (and relatives too) will step forward and say "I can't believe it - he was such a nice man!"

If only sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths had horns and fangs - we would all be onto them immediately, and their attempts at plotting and manipulation would not harm - or kill- other people.

BBM

It pays to be poor! HB would no doubt be still alive if she had been an unsuccessful author.
I've seen a friend survive a pool of sharks simply because he did not have any money, and they all knew it. Knowing the friend as a person, if he had had some riches, he would probably have lost all his money in the blink of an eye.

There are some Games Mother Never Taught You, because Mother wasn't aware either. We learn the hard way.

No doubt IS will be punished adequately. That is as it should be, but there are also lessons learned for those who are left behind and questions that need to be asked.

 

[Joely 123]

Wonder how he killed her on the bench though. Surely would have been much easier if she was on the bed or couch having a sleep


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Perhaps Helen was unconscious on the bench - he rolled her onto the duvet and suffocated her there.

 

[DollyDiamond]

BBM

It pays to be poor! HB would no doubt be still alive if she had been an unsuccessful author.
I've seen a friend survive a pool of sharks simply because he did not have any money, and they all knew it. Knowing the friend as a person, if he had had some riches, he would probably have lost all his money in the blink of an eye.

There are some Games Mother Never Taught You, because Mother wasn't aware either. We learn the hard way.

No doubt IS will be punished adequately. That is as it should be, but there are also lessons learned for those who are left behind and questions that need to be asked.

I so agree! It is too late for Helen and Boris but I hope (and I feel sure Helen would agree) that women embarking on the dating scene will be wary. It's a sad world if we are on permanent alert for psychopaths and users - however, I feel women all too often trust too quickly, and leave themselves vulnerable in affairs of the heart. Especially in middle age, when we fear a lonely retirement and perhaps sell ourselves short, fearing we are not such a catch anymore, and have to compromise. Never compromise on something as important as a life partner! I would just add, I don't mean to be sexist here, I realise men can be duped, exploited and murdered too - but I write from my personal perspective as a woman, plus statistically, women are more likely to be victims.

 

[mbmc]

Thanks for your very revealing and enlightening post - I too have had dealings with a ruthless, manipulative, sociopath. He duped me into marriage and I foolishly didn't realise for a very long time that my one and only appeal to him was my high salary! Like Helen I was an open book, and never questioned his motives - we had only been dating a few weeks when I took him up on his 'kind' offer to do my accounts for me and handed over a whole years worth of bank statements, thus giving him chapter and verse on my fabulous income (he proposed soon after).

So it doesn't surprise me one bit that people have said what a 'lovely' man IS was - people said the same about my ex. How lovable, cheerful and decent he was - and how obvious it was that he loved me! These people are chameleons who are scarily adept at playing the part people expect of them. This is how they manipulate and get their own way. Isn't it always the case when a ruthless killer is exposed - umpteen friends, neighbours (and relatives too) will step forward and say "I can't believe it - he was such a nice man!"

If only sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths had horns and fangs - we would all be onto them immediately, and their attempts at plotting and manipulation would not harm - or kill- other people.

Thank you Dolly, you have said what I could not have articulated.


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[Rayemonde]

Was Boris tested for zopiclone?

ETA yes he was, I just found it:

A sample was taken from the dog of Helen Bailey, and Dr Piper was asked to analyse the chest cavity fluid of the dog, the court has been told. There were no findings of zopiclone found in relation to this sample from the dog.

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-day-12435557