GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

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  • #601
I don't recall it ever been released about him being asked if he knew about the cess pit in the garage. I'm just familiar with what you state above about the one behind the garage.

ETA: I posted without seeing Alyce and Duchy response above. I must have missed when he was asked that.

This is what the prosecution said about it

"[FONT=&quot]Between April 11 and July 15, 2016, the defendant sat back and watched as police conducted what he knew to be a futile missing person’s investigation, the prosecution claim.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Mr Trimmer added: “He said nothing about the existence of an underground septic tank, and tried to ensure the body would not be found by parking a vehicle over the access shaft to the tank in the garage.”[/FONT]
 
  • #602
DollyDiamond - don`t forget the duty-free cigarettes they ordered IS to bring back from Spain!

Oh of course how stupid of me - it's obvious now you've said, Nick and Joe were in it for the 🤬🤬🤬🤬.
 
  • #603
^ I am definitely not going to argue with you on BIB Dolly. No sympathy at all.

Anyway, on suffocation via plastic bags , unfortunately many children still accidentally die of this every year and they do not need a murdering helping hand.
There are too many weblinks on slow and fast asphy by use of plastic bags.
Boris will have known IS for 4 years + and will have been used to being picked up in the past by IS.

Ultimately we will never know, just as Cary said COD for Helen was undetermined, he made some strong suggestions though. As for the vet path, he also couldn't say, but my feeling is that the method described is far easier for us to bear than dropped onto the septic blanket which is just horrifying as well as less guaranteed.

Yes, you're quite right on all counts. I must admit, I wasn't aware bin bags were so potentially dangerous for dogs - thanks, I will be keeping my little furball well away from them in future.
 
  • #604
This is what the prosecution said about it

"[FONT=&amp]Between April 11 and July 15, 2016, the defendant sat back and watched as police conducted what he knew to be a futile missing person’s investigation, the prosecution claim.[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Mr Trimmer added: “He said nothing about the existence of an underground septic tank, and tried to ensure the body would not be found by parking a vehicle over the access shaft to the tank in the garage.”[/FONT]

But maybe during later questioning when he was in custody?
 
  • #605
[FONT=&amp]“She said the flat had been an investment property, it was surplus to her requirements she was selling it to realise the capital."

This was the solicitor's evidence[/FONT]
[/QUOTE

No prizes for guessing whose idea it was for her to sell that flat and release its capital...
 
  • #606
[FONT="]“She said the flat had been an investment property, it was surplus to her requirements she was selling it to realise the capital."

This was the solicitor's evidence[/FONT]

TX for this. I was idly wondering why she might need capital now.
it could be as michele has said - hassle from tenants etc. and maybe she had some kind of high return investment option that made it worthwhile to do so.


In this case due to the overarching motive - follow the money.
so hope we will hear from an accountant? wondering if IS had convinced her to sell it with some ruse.

ETA - oops cross post with Dolly, thinking along the same lines.

ETA2 - presume IS contributed towards university fees? Can't remember the year of graduation now, My focus is on IS's outgoings not the son in this instance.
 
  • #607
Yes, you're quite right on all counts. I must admit, I wasn't aware bin bags were so potentially dangerous for dogs - thanks, I will be keeping my little furball well away from them in future.

Aww - you don't need anything to worry about. (Our dog is c. 40kg so even if she plays with a bin bag, she'll be ok.)
 
  • #608
  • #609
Aww - you don't need anything to worry about. (Our dog is c. 40kg so even if she plays with a bin bag, she'll be ok.)

Take no notice of me, Dolly-Dog is only 6lbs soaking wet and I'm with her 24-7 but being such an over protective mum, when you said how dangerous bin bags can be I got palpitations!
 
  • #610
  • #611
Wonder what nick and joe's motive was. Especially seeing that killing helen resolved any issues they seemed to have.... definitely must have been the 🤬🤬🤬🤬, oh and maybe they wanted to employ IS to take stuff to the tip for them and helen wasn't happy with the arrangement.

I've got a feeling IS won't have the bottle to testify. He's a pathetic wimp


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #612
Perhaps Helen was selling the Newcastle house to pay for the wedding?

Then again, I am struggling to believe that Helen would really go for a huge affair in a luxury Stately Home, when barely any of her friends, or even family had met IS more than once or twice.
 
  • #613
Going back to the meds and the 2010 prescription. I am sure u already had this on expiry issue, but if not....

Came across this about expiry dates on meds being largely false.

According to*this article,
phenobarbitals retain 90% effectiveness up to 480 months (40 years) past the expiration date.
and "The only active ingredients that missed that cutoff were aspirin and the stimulant amphetamine.

The expiration date on a drug is usually one to five years after it was manufactured. But those dates are often set arbitrarily, since the Food and Drug Administration doesn’t require pharmaceutical makers to test how long the active ingredients will last, the researchers wrote"

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/08/news/la-heb-expired-drugs-still-work-study-20121008
(although Zop isn't a phenobarbitol as such, apparently it mimics them in every way)
 
  • #614
Perhaps Helen was selling the Newcastle house to pay for the wedding?

Then again, I am struggling to believe that Helen would really go for a huge affair in a luxury Stately Home, when barely any of her friends, or even family had met IS more than once or twice.

Yes I tried to add up a new conservatory and an expensive (Brocket Hall type) wedding and set that against the £180k or so, just thinking aloud really as to how she was justifying getting rid of this investment with savings rates etc being so low.
 
  • #615
  • #616
I think the prosecution scored a massive point when they closed with Jamie saying he was surprised to find out that his dad had been to the tip that afternoon, after the defence highlighted he had told police IS struggled to reach into the kitchen cupboards.

Good one.
 
  • #617

Thanks for link to Mirror articles. That photo of IS - UGH! His eyes are as dead and black as his soul. Looking at the photos of the painstaking recovery of Helen's body I am struck by the respect with which the professionals treated her, making sure she was removed with great care, and that the the operation was efficiently shielded from view by two big forensic tents. Her fiance literally treated her like we-know-what but these wonderful professionals afforded her the dignity and respect she deserved.
 
  • #618
If you'll indulge me, just a few random thoughts I'd like to throw out (apologies if you feel these have been dealt with):

Do we know if any of Helen's family or friends corroborated IS' story to police that Helen had had three swanky wedding venues 'fall through', one of which was Brocket Hall? This is not hugely important but as someone else has said, she and IS did not appear to socialise together much/have many mutual friends and he was clearly at pains to keep their wedding plans private - to the extent of not even telling his sons they were engaged. To me, this does not tally with a big expensive wedding at Brocket Hall? It could be that Helen was going against his wishes and wanted a big, pricey do. As he had no wish to/intention of marrying her (and certainly wouldn't want her paying out sizeable deposits for various wedding costs), her bridal plans could well have hastened his murder plans.

IS had only 28 sleeping pills from his GP's prescription. As Helen's drowsiness was becoming extreme by April, he must have been getting those pills from another, additional source, probably online - this is presumably one of the reasons he wiped the computer and 'lost' his phone.

Why on earth did he hatch such a muddled and ultimately doomed-to-deduction murder? Is he stupid? Did some element of his plan go wrong, so he was forced to botch it?

It seems to me, pretending she was missing was not in itself a mistake - but claiming that when her body lay in the cesspit of their house was utterly ludicrous! He has surely handed the Crown a murder conviction on a plate.So did he originally plan her demise in some other way, ie hoping to make it look like accident or suicide, with the help of the sleeping pills he was secretly feeding her? I just cannot understand why he dumped her where he did - if her body had been found at the Broadstairs house, or he had even staged a car accident - or any number of different scenarios, he may have had a chance of escaping detection. But by killing and dumping her and Boris in a cesspit within the house, it is a clear case of foul play and the most likely suspect was always going to be him!

I won't ramble on but I'll just add - I wonder if he regrets his actions now he is facing life in prison? Does he ever think with regret of that warm hearted, witty, sweet and funny lady who loved him enough to marry him and share everything she had with him? Does he look at pictures of the garden where he dragged her dead body, see the swimming pool and swanky conservatory and imagine the luxurious retirement they could have enjoyed together if he hadn't carried out his plan for her destruction? Does he wish his sons and elderly parents still saw him as a wonderful dad and only child, rather than a soon to be convicted murderer of a woman and her dog for financial gain? He will never face the fact he is evil but I can't help but wonder, in his current, desperate predicament - DOES HE EVER WISH HE HADN'T BEEN SO DAMNED GREEDY?
 
  • #619
Dolly, I know you are new- have you ever checked out the top of the page?
 
  • #620
Hi - Do you mean messages?
 
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