GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[Alyce]

I'd love to know what people think about a fact that came out in court yesterday: Two unsuccessful attempts made to log into Helen's bank account on the day of her disappearance, 11th April. The first attempt made around lunch time/early afternoon (I forget the time stated) from a mobile phone and the second attempt made that evening (presumably not from a mobile as it wasn't specified), at the time that IS was out, at his son's bowls event!

This has left me baffled - what do you make of it guys?

Using his phone or a tablet, in a different location

 

[Florrie]

I thought it was said that his was a mistake and the third attempt could well have been IS,

Using a phone or tablet would overcome this anyway. I check my bank account when out via my phone. I can also make payments to another account etc via the app. So the timings are immaterial in terms of where IS was at that point.


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[Alyce]

Tomorrow's Court Listing
Might be an early finish as there's a PTP at 3.30pm



Daily List for Friday 27 January 2017 at BRICKET ROAD ST ALBANS


Court 1 - sitting at 09:45 AM

HIS HONOUR JUDGE BRIGHT QC

For Pre-Trial Review
XXXXXXXXXXX



NOT BEFORE 10:00 am
Trial (Part Heard)

T20167121 STEWART Ian
41E12190616

PAPER FILE



SITTING AT 03:30 pm
Plea and Trial Preparation

 

[Squamous]

I would think he used the mobile on the second attempt but they didn't say. Maybe we will hear tomorrow.

Do you remember that when he was arrested the police woman said she seized a phone? I wonder what they found on that, and indeed his laptop.

The phone was almost new I think - he had some very likely story about his contract coming to an end so he had two phones for a while, then whoops! Must have dropped his old phone while shopping in Cambridge.

 

[Squamous]

I thought it was said that his was a mistake and the third attempt could well have been IS,

Using a phone or tablet would overcome this anyway. I check my bank account when out via my phone. I can also make payments to another account etc via the app. So the timings are immaterial in terms of where IS was at that point.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yes, me too. I don't think I could change a standing order through the app but probably could through the browser.

That said, I think the forensics found the relevant data to indicate that he'd done on in a fragment of data from his computer rather than a mobile device. If I've got it right in my head, that's the point at which they shifted to a murder investigation and arrested him. I don't know if they had to wait for him to get back from his holibobs before they could arrest him (they were probably sore relieved when he did actually come back!).

 

[faybradshaw]

It was mentioned somewhere in a previous post that the 'not so fine speciman of a man' slept until 10.30 in the mornings whereas Helen got up at 8.30. Whether or not this gave her quiet time to be on the computer, it indicates to me, someone who didn't have much gusto to embrace the day and I'm wondering what he actually occupied himself with during the day. Helen seemed a highly motivated and busy person so can't imagine her not being irritated by this. Also, the house being as big as it is, did they have outside cleaning help at all, or maybe the household chores were split amongst the four of them. Just wondering if they did have a cleaner coming in, what, if anything, did they notice

 

[Squamous]

There was definitely a reference to a cleaner and a gardener.

 

[Cherwell]

It was mentioned somewhere in a previous post that the 'not so fine speciman of a man' slept until 10.30 in the mornings whereas Helen got up at 8.30. Whether or not this gave her quiet time to be on the computer, it indicates to me, someone who didn't have much gusto to embrace the day and I'm wondering what he actually occupied himself with during the day. Helen seemed a highly motivated and busy person so can't imagine her not being irritated by this. Also, the house being as big as it is, did they have outside cleaning help at all, or maybe the household chores were split amongst the four of them. Just wondering if they did have a cleaner coming in, what, if anything, did they notice

I don't think you can draw a conclusion like that. It depends on the individual. Some people are 'larks' who have more energy early in the mornings, while others are 'owls' who come to life later in the day. I am definitely an owl, my concentration is better in the evenings and I'm often up very late finishing something.

 

[BatFace]

Oh yes, his energy certainly seemed to have picked up later in the day when Helen went missing. He was running round like the proverbial blue-arsed fly.

 

[faybradshaw]

I don't think you can draw a conclusion like that. It depends on the individual. Some people are 'larks' who have more energy early in the mornings, while others are 'owls' who come to life later in the day. I am definitely an owl, my concentration is better in the evenings and I'm often up very late finishing something.

By all means, burning the midnight oil productively and then sleeping until midday, but somehow doubt that was the case with him, in terms of being very productive...

 

[DollyDiamond]

Yes wasn't he a busy chap, attempting online banking transactions while attending his son's bowls match - a fine multi tasker!

 

[Interested Bystander]

It was mentioned somewhere in a previous post that the 'not so fine speciman of a man' slept until 10.30 in the mornings whereas Helen got up at 8.30. Whether or not this gave her quiet time to be on the computer, it indicates to me, someone who didn't have much gusto to embrace the day and I'm wondering what he actually occupied himself with during the day. Helen seemed a highly motivated and busy person so can't imagine her not being irritated by this. Also, the house being as big as it is, did they have outside cleaning help at all, or maybe the household chores were split amongst the four of them. Just wondering if they did have a cleaner coming in, what, if anything, did they notice

I think one has to remember that he suffers from Myasthenia Gravis (an autoimmune disease). As the name suggests this means grave muscle weakness. He will have medication for this which helps but if one has systemic MG a great deal of the day is spent waiting for drugs to work to help the muscle strengthen. There are very unpleasant side effects from the drugs and one has to stick to a regime if one doesn't want to run into problems with them. Typically, he will take his drugs, wait an hour for them to work, then have a couple of hours where he feels stronger, then the drug levels decline and again he will begin to feel very weak. Lack of sleep complicates this picture. I am not making excuses for him and I am sure he is guilty but it is a very debilitating disease and may well explain his late rising. He will have needed to be at the right point in his medication to have had enough strength to have carried/dragged Helen into the garage to dump her in the pit.

None of the above excuses anything apart from a need for much more sleep than the average person.

 

[DollyDiamond]

I think one has to remember that he suffers from Myasthenia Gravis (an autoimmune disease). As the name suggests this means grave muscle weakness. He will have medication for this which helps but if one has systemic MG a great deal of the day is spent waiting for drugs to work to help the muscle strengthen. There are very unpleasant side effects from the drugs and one has to stick to a regime if one doesn't want to run into problems with them. Typically, he will take his drugs, wait an hour for them to work, then have a couple of hours where he feels stronger, then the drug levels decline and again he will begin to feel very weak. Lack of sleep complicates this picture. I am not making excuses for him and I am sure he is guilty but it is a very debilitating disease and may well explain his late rising. He will have needed to be at the right point in his medication to have had enough strength to have carried/dragged Helen into the garage to dump her in the pit.

None of the above excuses anything apart from a need for much more sleep than the average person.

If anything, I think his poor general health makes it all the more shocking and unfathomable that he carried out such an audacious crime. You would think he'd want a quiet life without risk yet he chose for himself a risky course that took him right towards trouble. As with all such crimes, it brings one back to the conclusion that the perpetrator over estimated their own cunning and underestimated everyone else's ability to catch them out. For some reason, he didn't think he would be caught (because he didn't think they would find the bodies?) I can only think IS assumed it would be as easy to evade arrest as it was to overpower a drugged woman.

 

[faybradshaw]

If anything, I think his poor general health makes it all the more shocking and unfathomable that he carried out such an audacious crime. You would think he'd want a quiet life without risk yet he chose for himself a risky course that took him right towards trouble. As with all such crimes, it brings one back to the conclusion that the perpetrator over estimated their own cunning and underestimated everyone else's ability to catch them out. For some reason, he didn't think he would be caught (because he didn't think they would find the bodies?) I can only think IS assumed it would be as easy to evade arrest as it was to overpower a drugged woman.[/QUOTE


I'd like to know how debilitating his illness actually was?

 

[DollyDiamond]

If anything, I think his poor general health makes it all the more shocking and unfathomable that he carried out such an audacious crime. You would think he'd want a quiet life without risk yet he chose for himself a risky course that took him right towards trouble. As with all such crimes, it brings one back to the conclusion that the perpetrator over estimated their own cunning and underestimated everyone else's ability to catch them out. For some reason, he didn't think he would be caught (because he didn't think they would find the bodies?) I can only think IS assumed it would be as easy to evade arrest as it was to overpower a drugged woman.[/QUOTE


I'd like to know how debilitating his illness actually was?

I agree and that's a very good point - obviously the Defence are bound to overstate the effects of the illness on him and his general strength and stamina, to help his cause.

 

[Interested Bystander]

If anything, I think his poor general health makes it all the more shocking and unfathomable that he carried out such an audacious crime. You would think he'd want a quiet life without risk yet he chose for himself a risky course that took him right towards trouble. As with all such crimes, it brings one back to the conclusion that the perpetrator over estimated their own cunning and underestimated everyone else's ability to catch them out. For some reason, he didn't think he would be caught (because he didn't think they would find the bodies?) I can only think IS assumed it would be as easy to evade arrest as it was to overpower a drugged woman.[/QUOTE


I'd like to know how debilitating his illness actually was?

Yes that would be very interesting. Some people suffer only from lid lag but most go on to develop full blown MG. Not all patients suffer the same degree of weakness but it does seem he has not worked for years. During this time, if he claimed any sort of sickness benefit, he would have been examined a number of times and he would have been under the care of a Neurologist. No doubt the Defence will use his lack of strength as an excuse that he was not strong enough to lug a body across the yard. However, that would soon be seen as overkill (ouch). Some patients can even stretch their medication intervals to 6 hours. It does depend how badly one is affected.

MG patients often suffer from sleep apnoea due to the nasal musculature collapsing. Another reason for being tired in the morning.

 

[Pips]

She didn't give up teenage writing as such and she didn't want to do a book on bereavement. She suffered complete writer's block after JS died and the blog of Planet Grief grew from that. She turned down two publisher's offers before making it into the book. I think she was at a crossroads in her career, and waiting to see what happened next. She did write 22 books in total, w

 

[Pips]

She wrote 22 books in total, but the last came from the blog as she had complete writer's block after JS died and was her first 'adult' book. I think she was at a crossroads professionally. She said she needed a break x

 

[Pips]

Sorry, still trying to work out the technicalities! Have answered on next page by mistake. Mea culpa!

 

[Squamous]

I can imagine it would be hard for her, seems she was very prolific in the year or two before JS died but I don't imagine losing your spouse plus all the legal/financial stress leaves you feeling much like writing lively teen fiction. She did have so much to give though.

Incidentally, I don't think IS did himself any favours when he said she could be a target for a money related kidnapping, although few people would realise. Although £4m of assets is a very nice amount, I don't really think anyone would go to the trouble of targeting someone for it, particularly given that I imagine most of it was tied up in property.