GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #3

[ZaZara]

I agree with the idea of other posters that he may well have intended for her to have some sort of accident (e.g. driving) whilst under influence of the drug or similar, which, given her dislike of driving and nervousness about it, would be more plausible than another wife dying of an epileptic fit...

RSBM

Hi Wolfclub, welcome.

I find the idea of a planned car accident very unlikely. The car was newly bought, so the dealer would become involved immediately if something technical (like cutting the brakes) was wrong.

More important, the outcome of an intended accident cannot be planned. This could differ completely from the original goal: HB might easly survive, because cars are built to survive crashes, but she might hit another car, cyclist or pedestrian and injure or even kill someone else. There would be an investigation, there would be bills to pay and claims to deal with.... and so on.

 

[Tortoise]

He could have left it somewhere else, jeez he's so stupid!


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Aha, I've just worked out the reason.

If he didn't devise the Broadstairs version until Tuesday it would have been too late to text 24 hours later, because police would have seen that all the evidence showed she disappeared 'electronically' on Monday. And he texted her 3 kisses on Monday night, which he wouldn't have done if she had been at home with him in bed.

 

[looroll]

Really hope the trial continues tomorrow. The weekend wait was bad enough! (sorry that the juror is poorly obviously) x

 

[Tortoise]

Oh dear, just been digging...... IS admits on the FB widow page that the doctors admitted to him the real cause of his wife's death is unknown although it was said by the coroners report to be SUDEP. I'm going to leave it at that. I feel bad I'm even going down this route of thinking...


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Oh. So IS didn't appear to know she was epileptic.

 

[Alyce]

I'm not 100% caught up yet but having just read the post about the sons on the stand and the Monday missing vs Tuesday's note, it made me remember something I now can't find. Wasn't there some differing stories about what happened in the previous days, over the weekend? One story was they was all there and Helen was cooking Shepherds Pie on Sunday but one person wasn't there that Sunday and it was actually Saturday? I can't remember seeing if that had been cleared up? Or did i completely get the wrong end of the stick?
*going to catch up no so if this is now a moot point please ignore*

You are correct. There is discrepancy in the evidence given for the week end prior to Monday April 11.

Jamie's evidence
The weekend before April 11 there was nothing unusual at all. We spent the Saturday night watching TV. It was hard to remember what happened because it was so normal.
“Helen had made a cottage pie for us all. There was nothing untoward at all about that evening.”

Olivers evidence
On a normal Friday night Oliver would drive home from work, see his dad, have a shower and wait for his girlfriend to finish work, he said.
“On the Sunday (April 10, 2016) I popped back to the house to collect work clothes for Monday. I remember seeing Helen, who asked if I wanted any food and I said no. “I popped into the lounge to see dad and Jamie. I was at the house no more than 20 minutes.
“I spent the night at my girlfriend’s parents house, and went directly to work.


AM ( Olivers gf )
Girlfiend of Oliver Stewart is today's first witness
The first witness is Alexandra Mcgarry, who is the girlfriend of Stewart’s son, Oliver Stewart. She tells the court she met Oliver through hockey. She is being asked about the weekend in particular before Helen went missing.
“On the Saturday before Helen went missing, I went shopping with Oliver to Cambridge.
“After this Oliver dropped me off at mine to pick up my car and then I drove to his and stayed at his this evening. I remember Helen looking quite stressed that particular evening, she didn’t say hi, she kept her head down and just walked into the kitchen.
“I heard she was in her jeep and got very anxious, so I thought it could be to do with that.”
On Sunday, she seemed in better spirits. We woke up, had some breakfast, I drive home, Oliver had some college work to do and I wanted him to concentrate on that so he stayed at his and I went back home.
Alex said she was aware the police had been round and were asking lots of questions. She is being asked about Helen in the weeks before these events.
“I very rarely stayed at Oliver’s so I can’t really comment. On the Saturday (April 9) she seemed very stressed. I got the impression she didn’t really like me staying over.



IS evidence
He talks about J and O playing football on Sunday afternoon in the garden.


The two things that stand out for me.
The everything was normal comments are contradicted by the girlfriend saying there was tension - at least on the Saturday evening.
OS saying he was at the house for 20 minutes only on Sunday. Girlfriend says he stayed home on Sunday to study and IS also says he was there during the day - his statement said Oliver was there Sunday afternoon playing football

 

[Alyce]

While checking back for AM ( Olivers gf ) evidence , I noticed this info....

“On Monday morning I was at my house, Oliver stayed at mine on Sunday night as well. On the morning of April 11, Oliver went to work and so did I.
“We texted quite a lot during the day, he came back to mine after work to pick up his sat nav.
“On Monday night I stayed at home and Oliver went to cadets.


On Tuesday (April 12) Oliver went to work then to the passport office. “At some stage Oliver told me that Helen had gone to Broadstairs.

“On Sunday April 17 Oliver was away doing cadet training and I was scrolling through my Facebook feed, I saw a post that Helen had gone missing.
“I was quite shocked by this and text Oliver to ask him what was going on. It was a cause of concern to me.”


BIB So at what time does OS finish work ? must be early enough to allow him to go to g/f house and then get back to Hartwell Lodge all before 5.30-5.35pm, when IS departs for bowls.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Oh dear, just been digging...... IS admits on the FB widow page that the doctors admitted to him the real cause of his wife's death is unknown although it was said by the coroners report to be SUDEP. I'm going to leave it at that. I feel bad I'm even going down this route of thinking...

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I can understand how you feel but it is quite worrying.

 

[Tortoise]

While checking back for AM ( Olivers gf ) evidence , I noticed this info....

“On Monday morning I was at my house, Oliver stayed at mine on Sunday night as well. On the morning of April 11, Oliver went to work and so did I.
“We texted quite a lot during the day, he came back to mine after work to pick up his sat nav.
“On Monday night I stayed at home and Oliver went to cadets.


On Tuesday (April 12) Oliver went to work then to the passport office. “At some stage Oliver told me that Helen had gone to Broadstairs.

“On Sunday April 17 Oliver was away doing cadet training and I was scrolling through my Facebook feed, I saw a post that Helen had gone missing.
“I was quite shocked by this and text Oliver to ask him what was going on. It was a cause of concern to me.”


BIB So at what time does OS finish work ? must be early enough to allow him to go to g/f house and then get back to Hartwell Lodge all before 5.30-5.35pm, when IS departs for bowls.

It might be an early start and an early finish, because he said he leaves for work at 7:15am.

 

[snoopydog]

Aha, I've just worked out the reason.

If he didn't devise the Broadstairs version until Tuesday it would have been too late to text 24 hours later, because police would have seen that all the evidence showed she disappeared 'electronically' on Monday. And he texted her 3 kisses on Monday night, which he wouldn't have done if she had been at home with him in bed.

What do you think was his initial plan then? That she went out with the dog and didn't return then he changed his mind about this and decided on Tuesday that she'd left the note to say she'd gone to Broadstairs?


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[Duchy]

Hi all; I've been reading along but been so busy the past few days I've not had a moment to post.

You've all covered everything I wanted to say anyway!

Only extra thing for me is Helen saying that the bereavement counsellor advising her to not miss the chance with IS...

We do have to remember that she was a writer and sometimes certain situations can get a bit embellished for the sake of a good romantic line or story.

It may well have been the case that the counsellor said something along the lines of "would you regret it if you found out he was with someone else?" or, maybe even gave Helen a scenario to think on. For the sake of her post, it sounds a bit more romantic and dramatic the way she tells it, but it doesn't necessarily mean it happened exactly that way.

I have no doubt Helen was truthful in reporting events and situations, by the way - I just think we need to remember that she's a writer, so every conversation quote on her blog may not be exactly to the letter and may have been paraphrased in a slightly more eloquent and befitting-to-the-story manner

I agree with this. I was thinking the same. I also think the dowdy menopausal woman comment are her words and the Boris is a mutt comment just banter between them. When I first read the Boris comment, the person who said this was either a Nick or Joe but when I looked again a couple of weeks later, Nick or Joe had gone. Did anyone else see this or was I just very sleep deprived!

 

[Tortoise]

Why would he send her a text of just 3 kisses at 10:10pm 11th April?

What was his scenario at that time?

 

[Tortoise]

What do you think was his initial plan then? That she went out with the dog and didn't return then he changed his mind about this and decided on Tuesday that she'd left the note to say she'd gone to Broadstairs?


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We've just cross posted. I'm going to mull it over.

 

[Tortoise]

I agree with this. I was thinking the same. I also think the dowdy menopausal woman comment are her words and the Boris is a mutt comment just banter between them. When I first read the Boris comment, the person who said this was either a Nick or Joe but when I looked again a couple of weeks later, Nick or Joe had gone. Did anyone else see this or was I just very sleep deprived!

I've seen a Joe on that site.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Oh. So IS didn't appear to know she was epileptic.

Even the docs were unsure of COD! I find it a little odd that the pathologist used SUDEP as a possible cause. This usually only happens to know epileptics who are known to have fits during the night. The death also occurs at night. I have a friend who lost one of her sons this way. Diane's "fit" as far as I can remember happened during the day when she was out in the garden. That would be so unusual for SUDEP. It would be interesting to know if anyone witnessed her collapse. If so, the pathologist may have been swayed by what the witness described if he had nothing else to go on.

I really hope the police have looked into this and obtained the Path Lab report and spoken to the Pathologist who was responsible for it.

 

[Tortoise]

Quick question for techies.

Can he have altered a text he already sent to Helen's phone on Monday night?

Because police said they examined his phone when they first went to the house, which would have been on 15th.

 

[Alyce]

It might be an early start and an early finish, because he said he leaves for work at 7:15am.

Yes indeed. I wonder how early.
Departing at 7.15 from Royston would indicate an arrival in Cambridge at 7.45-8.00 am

so if his hours are - say - 8 am to 4pm, then even a stop off at AMs on the way home to collect his satnav, could still have allowed him to get back to Hartwell Lodge by 5pm - which would mean arriving home at the same time as IS ( if ISs times are correct of course ! ) and would mean them both being in the house for at least half an hour before IS has to depart to the bowls.

More time to talk and time enough for IS to mention that he has just found a note from Helen.

 

[Alyce]

Even the docs were unsure of COD! I find it a little odd that the pathologist used SUDEP as a possible cause. This usually only happens to know epileptics who are known to have fits during the night. The death also occurs at night. I have a friend who lost one of her sons this way. Diane's "fit" as far as I can remember happened during the day when she was out in the garden. That would be so unusual for SUDEP. It would be interesting to know if anyone witnessed her collapse. If so, the pathologist may have been swayed by what the witness described if he had nothing else to go on.

I really hope the police have looked into this and obtained the Path Lab report and spoken to the Pathologist who was responsible for it.

from what I have read ( there is not much info ) there were no witnesses.

 

[Cherwell]

Even the docs were unsure of COD! I find it a little odd that the pathologist used SUDEP as a possible cause. This usually only happens to know epileptics who are known to have fits during the night. The death also occurs at night. I have a friend who lost one of her sons this way. Diane's "fit" as far as I can remember happened during the day when she was out in the garden. That would be so unusual for SUDEP. It would be interesting to know if anyone witnessed her collapse. If so, the pathologist may have been swayed by what the witness described if he had nothing else to go on.

I really hope the police have looked into this and obtained the Path Lab report and spoken to the Pathologist who was responsible for it.

Is it known whether she had any history of epilepsy? People seem to be assuming she didn't, but is that known for certain?

 

[icemaiden65]

Oh dear, just been digging...... IS admits on the FB widow page that the doctors admitted to him the real cause of his wife's death is unknown although it was said by the coroners report to be SUDEP. I'm going to leave it at that. I feel bad I'm even going down this route of thinking...


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OMG, I wrote a post about this aspect earlier and deleted it as I thought it possibly a bit trite. What I basically said was that previous 'unknowns/convictions' and also criminal investigations etc. are left out of court cases so that the Jury can make the correct decision and also aren't 'swayed'. That information will be in the judges hands when sentencing.

Hate to refer back when I said I would try not to speak about my Aunt's murder but - he pleaded guilty (no option with evidence, traces of her blood when caught, CCTV when he tootled off to buy new clothes with the few hundred pounds he'd stolen, DNA all over the place, including the whisky bottle he used as the main weapon etc.) - but even we (as family) had no idea until the judge spoke about it. He pleaded guilty so no trial but as family you are told the grim truth, as gently as possible and I won't ever forget the wonderful lady detective who helped me through the pain - I lived over 300 miles away from where it happened having moved a few years earlier. Turned out he had only been out of prison for a matter of SIX weeks for Grievous Bodily Harm against a policeman, and before that in prison for a violent brawl - and then deemed fit to rejoin society. My A*se!

 

[Duchy]

“Dad said he was having his hair cut in Royston before he came home and the note was found.”

Then under cross examination it's reported -

"Oliver said he could be wrong about his dad going for a haircut on April 11, 2016."

Now doesn't this also confirm the probability that IS made out to OS he'd found the note on Tuesday!

Oh yes!
:websleuther: