GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[Tortoise]

I'd love to know IF she had any supplements that were capsules. A lot of herbal stuff isn't.... which would lead back to they had to be hidden in a medication she did take. Eg the paracetamol.


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Paracetamol in her body does suggest this could have been the way he did it.

 

[Cherwell]

We also know that OS would depart round about 6.30pm to go to cadets.

Was OS in the habit of setting the alarm when he went out ?
If yes, then shouldn't he have been asked about what he did on this evening ?

By his own account he said he didnt see Helen or Boris when he was at home that evening.
He also said there was no discussion with his father about Helen or Boris on that evening.
So he didn't actually know whether they were home or not.

Wouldnt he have done a quick check so that he would know whether or not to set the alarm ?

To be fair, I think if all the cars were there he would assume she was in.
Unless she was likely to have taken Boris out at that time. It depends how regular that was.

 

[icemaiden65]

Catching up.

I suppose it's possible that she might have said something like,
"Don't read it if you think it will upset you."

I can imagine that.

He's such a 'sticky beak' he won't have been able to resist! Knowledge is power is his watchword. Helen says something very loving about him right at the very end of her book in the acknowledgments along the lines of 'I love you GGHW. You are my happy ever after' - or very similar. I can't bring myself to look it up but found it heartbreaking. I can't help but wonder if, whilst reading the rest of the book, he realised he would never take the place of JS in Helen's heart and it just festered and grew, and grew, into pure hatred of her. Of course the money will also have played a teensy part!

 

[ColourPurple]

I'd love to know IF she had any supplements that were capsules. A lot of herbal stuff isn't.... which would lead back to they had to be hidden in a medication she did take. Eg the paracetamol.


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We don't know for sure but if they were tablets rather than capsules he could just switch the zoplicone for the tablets that looked the most similar. Easy done if she kept them in little labelled bags. Or maybe he ordered some new versions of supplements she already took and switched them in the bottle before she even put them into little bags. I so wish police had his internet records.

 

[snoopydog]

We don't know for sure but if they were tablets rather than capsules he could just switch the zoplicone for the tablets that looked the most similar. Easy done if she kept them in little labelled bags. Or maybe he ordered some new versions of supplements she already took and switched them in the bottle before she even put them into little bags. I so wish police had his internet records.

I'm not sure he could get away with that. The zopiclone look like medicine. Not supplements. Plus they taste really bad. Not like herbal stuff


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[DollyDiamond]

Paracetamol in her body does suggest this could have been the way he did it.

Forgive my ignorance - can you buy paracetamol capsules that could be opened up and doctored with the Zopiclone, I haven't seen these? I think he would have been most likely to tamper with her vitamin/herbal capsules, safe in the knowledge that she took those daily (presumably she only took paracetamol sporadically).

There are quite a lot of herbal capsule remedies on the market, and some such as ginseng are surprisingly large - emptied out he could no doubt have easily put 2-4 crushed Zopiclone into one capsule. For Helen to have been doing things like collapsing on a beach and going home leaving her beloved Boris behind, I feel he must have been giving her massive doses. So he must have had more tablets than the 28 stated from the GP prescription. No doubt his computer and phone history could have revealed he was placing big orders online.

 

[ColourPurple]

I'm not sure he could get away with that. The zopiclone look like medicine. Not supplements. Plus they taste really bad. Not like herbal stuff


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I'm back to thinking it was probably capsules then lol.I just don't think after planning this for so long that he'd leave it to fate to decide the day that she died. What if she'd got all the way to the wedding day without asking him for a paracetamol?

 

[ColourPurple]

Forgive my ignorance - can you buy paracetamol capsules that could be opened up and doctored with the Zopiclone, I haven't seen these? I think he would have been most likely to tamper with her vitamin/herbal capsules, safe in the knowledge that she took those daily (presumably she only took paracetamol sporadically).

There are quite a lot of herbal capsule remedies on the market, and some such as ginseng are surprisingly large - emptied out he could no doubt have easily put 2-4 crushed Zopiclone into one capsule. For Helen to have been doing things like collapsing on a beach and going home leaving her beloved Boris behind, I feel he must have been giving her massive doses. So he must have had more tablets than the 28 stated from the GP prescription. No doubt his computer and phone history could have revealed he was placing big orders online.

You can buy capsule versions of paracetamol but they're normally more expensive than the tablet version so I always get the tablet version.

 

[snoopydog]

Forgive my ignorance - can you buy paracetamol capsules that could be opened up and doctored with the Zopiclone, I haven't seen these? I think he would have been most likely to tamper with her vitamin/herbal capsules, safe in the knowledge that she took those daily (presumably she only took paracetamol sporadically).

There are quite a lot of herbal capsule remedies on the market, and some such as ginseng are surprisingly large - emptied out he could no doubt have easily put 2-4 crushed Zopiclone into one capsule. For Helen to have been doing things like collapsing on a beach and going home leaving her beloved Boris behind, I feel he must have been giving her massive doses. So he must have had more tablets than the 28 stated from the GP prescription. No doubt his computer and phone history could have revealed he was placing big orders online.

Yeah you get them in Tesco for sure. I buy them in capsules. They are pretty big as well... well as far as capsules go. They aren't say Prozac sized. They're more cold and flu sized if that makes sense....

I also don't think he was drugging her daily. I think it sounds like it was sporadic episodes rather than constant....

If she'd been taking them daily for 3 months I reckon she'd have been to the doctor to see wtf was going on. She'd have been constantly wasted

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[ColourPurple]

There are quite a lot of herbal capsule remedies on the market, and some such as ginseng are surprisingly large - emptied out he could no doubt have easily put 2-4 crushed Zopiclone into one capsule. For Helen to have been doing things like collapsing on a beach and going home leaving her beloved Boris behind, I feel he must have been giving her massive doses. So he must have had more tablets than the 28 stated from the GP prescription. No doubt his computer and phone history could have revealed he was placing big orders online.

There's the possibility that he had an old stash from one of the two occasions he was previously prescribed them but I was thinking... if he did buy online, even if he deleted his history couldn't they check his bank records or paypal account to look for any suspect purchases?

 

[Tortoise]

 

[Tortoise]

There's the possibility that he had an old stash from one of the two occasions he was previously prescribed them but I was thinking... if he did buy online, even if he deleted his history couldn't they check his bank records or paypal account to look for any suspect purchases?

Could be the reason he acted when he did, he was running out of tablets.

 

[Cherwell]

We don't know for sure but if they were tablets rather than capsules he could just switch the zoplicone for the tablets that looked the most similar. Easy done if she kept them in little labelled bags. Or maybe he ordered some new versions of supplements she already took and switched them in the bottle before she even put them into little bags. I so wish police had his internet records.

If she tried something new, she wouldn't know whether or not it normally had a bitter taste.

 

[Tortoise]

Maybe he targeted a range of her supplements and medicines.

 

[snoopydog]

Could be the reason he acted when he did, he was running out of tablets.

That's what I think. I don't think it's as easy as just going online and ordering zopiclone but I'd need to check. I don't think he's clever enough to know how to get bicoins to do it on the dark web either. I tried to buy them once and it was so overly complicated I didn't bother...


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[snoopydog]

Thing is zopiclone have a chemical taste. I've had horrible tasting supplements but they usually taste or smell of something gross that's herby


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[snoopydog]

I've just checked and it looks reasonably easy to buy zopiclone online... weird... this would have left a trail on a bank statement or Paypal though....


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[DollyDiamond]

We don't know for sure but if they were tablets rather than capsules he could just switch the zoplicone for the tablets that looked the most similar. Easy done if she kept them in little labelled bags. Or maybe he ordered some new versions of supplements she already took and switched them in the bottle before she even put them into little bags. I so wish police had his internet records.

Zopiclone look quite distinctive, they are pale orange so it's unlikely Helen would have been taking another tablet that looked similar and they could be switched. As Snoopydog rightly says, Zopiclone look like a prescription tablet, not any kind of supplement.

I feel certain the evil swine must have been crushing up the sleeping tablets and doctoring an existing herbal/vitamin capsule that Helen was taking daily, this way he could get a strong dose of it down her without fail every 24 hours - even while he was away in hospital! This is reason alone why his computer history was wiped and his mobile phone 'went missing'. repeated online orders for Zopiclone. I wonder if the police have done much investigation into how he bought and administered it - I guess they don't have to, as the PM evidence of it in her body is enough.

 

[Squamous]

Dolly, you drugging yourself with a cup of tea has made my day.

 

[ColourPurple]

Could be the reason he acted when he did, he was running out of tablets.

Why not just go back and ask for more though?