GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[Alyce]

just a thought about why choose April 11th to kill Helen.

[FONT="]"Power of attorney was registered and effective by April 10, 2015"


Maybe he planned to wait a year so it didn't look as suspicious as if she'd have gone missing right after the POA was registered? He murders her almost a year to the day that POA was registered.[/FONT]

Oh that is a horrible thought ! almost like he had it marked on a calendar

 

[MillyM]

"Court adjourned

That’s it for today. Thanks for joining us."

Gawd, hope he was just the stand in today. That journo doesn't seem savvy with fast and accurate reporting in this way.

 

[cottonweaver]

Back to Zopiclone and how it might have been administered. In tea? In a drink ? Crushed in a capsule? Swapped with a a pain relief tablet etc etc

As we saw in the previous links " The tablets are ‘practically insoluble’ – which means
that they do not dissolve, even after boiling ......" but it also lists some elaborate street techniques for enhancing solubility.

I am including a diff type of link this time as it shows the different tablet forms as they appear in UK.
( No idea about the table shape ranges in US)
http://michaellinnell.org.uk/michael_linnell_archive/research_and_reports/pdf/z-drugs_leaf09.pdf

It also has the OD and side effects info as usual.

 

[ColourPurple]

My Thanks button doesn'y always work but Thanks for all the updates. I know it can be hard to keep up with them

 

[Alyce]

There could have been an argument between HB and either IS or the boys on the Sunday night about girlfriends stopping over.

That was my thought...no time for an argument Monday morning due to the * happy * on line activity....unless the argument began after 10.58am - but then we have to wait for Helen to fall deeply asleep and for IS to murder her - all in half an hour, because by 11.33 he is changing his Surgery appointment.
Doesnt seem time enough to me

Perhaps during the long dog walk on Sunday ( ISs evidence so who knows if true or not ) Helen discussed the Will and amendments she wanted to make

 

[ColourPurple]

Back to Zopiclone and how it might have been administered. In tea? In a drink ? Crushed in a capsule? Swapped with a a pain relief tablet etc etc

As we saw in the previous links " The tablets are ‘practically insoluble’ – which means
that they do not dissolve, even after boiling ......" but it also lists some elaborate street techniques for enhancing solubility.

I am including a diff type of link this time as it shows the different tablet forms as they appear in UK.
( No idea about the table shape ranges in US)
http://michaellinnell.org.uk/michael_linnell_archive/research_and_reports/pdf/z-drugs_leaf09.pdf

It also has the OD and side effects info as usual.

More likely to be crushed and put in a capsule than in the tea then.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Back to Zopiclone and how it might have been administered. In tea? In a drink ? Crushed in a capsule? Swapped with a a pain relief tablet etc etc

As we saw in the previous links " The tablets are ‘practically insoluble’ – which means
that they do not dissolve, even after boiling ......"

I am including a diff type of link this time as it shows the different tablet forms as they appear in UK.
( No idea about the table shape ranges in US)
http://michaellinnell.org.uk/michael_linnell_archive/research_and_reports/pdf/z-drugs_leaf09.pdf

It also has the OD and side effects info as usual.

Having taken Zopliclone myself, I know it has a very nasty, bitter aftertaste that clings to your tongue - I have frequently known it to linger the following morning after taking it. I cannot believe Helen didn't experience this - she must have blamed it on something else, one of her other supplements perhaps. A great shame because I think if she had knowingly experienced sleeping tablets in the past then maybe, just maybe, she could have put two and two together and realised he was drugging her. But I know that's unthinkable and shocking and something she no doubt would never have thought possible.

 

[wolfcub]

It won't be Aspergers (unless he has Aspergers with a personality disorder too). My son has Aspergers and is very empathic and caring about others...he just doesn't always now how to express that appropriately.
What we are hearing about IS is completely different ... devoid of emotion unless that emotion is around himself.
The more and more I hear about him the more I dislike him. Charming in the surface but manipulative as hell and I totally agree that the death of his first wife needs to be looked at. I don't know if the police have seriously looked into her death or whether it will be something they might do off the back of this if he is found guilty.

Yes Florrie,
In my other reply to snoopydog, I meant to add that whilst it is possible he might be a sociopath who has aspergers , it would not be fair to equate aspergers with sociopathy as aspergers are often very feeling and highly intelligent people who just can't communicate well - we don't want aspergers people to think they are all sociopaths! (They have enough angst to go through life with!) Anyway, sorry snoopydog as I'm sure you didn't imply that anyway (i.e. that people with aspergers are likely to be sociopaths.:thinking:

 

[neteditor]

What are the agreed facts in this case? I can't remember them being reported but if they have then we can look at the list of agreed facts and try to work out what he meant

Before the trial, the defence team go through all the statements and decide which ones they will accept as fact. Those "agreed facts" are the statements read before the jury but where the witness who made the statement is not called to give evidence. It means their evidence is not contentious and both sides agree on that.

 

[neteditor]

Pre planning so that he could claim not to be aware of certain things and thoughts that were in the book?

What things? I don't know but he's a crafty manipulative man so there must be a reason he's claiming not to have read all of the book.

My thought here is that he could try to claim he had no idea that Helen had previously said she'd thought about doing a runner (while married to JS, I think that was in the book. Don't know if it was on the blog too or not.)

 

[Moll]

Before the trial, the defence team go through all the statements and decide which ones they will accept as fact. Those "agreed facts" are the statements read before the jury but where the witness who made the statement is not called to give evidence. It means their evidence is not contentious and both sides agree on that.

But can you deduce what the judge meant by saying that at that point? Was he being a bit sarcastic - and if so how?

 

[neteditor]

Yes Florrie,
In my other reply to snoopydog, I meant to add that whilst it is possible he might be a sociopath who has aspergers , it would not be fair to equate aspergers with sociopathy as aspergers are often very feeling and highly intelligent people who just can't communicate well - we don't want aspergers people to think they are all sociopaths! (They have enough angst to go through life with!) Anyway, sorry snoopydog as I'm sure you didn't imply that anyway (i.e. that people with aspergers are likely to be sociopaths.:thinking:

People with Asperger's tend to be incapable of deception. Far too honest sometimes. I have Asperger's myself and my brain/mouth filter is very limited. I'd make a terrible spy and I detest lies and liars. I certainly couldn't kill someone and keep it a secret, my guilt would would leak out all over the place.

 

[DollyDiamond]

Doesn't agreed facts mean things that are stated as fact and aren't contested by either side?

I don't know why it was inserted right there though.

Exactly, it means the facts are not disputed. If today's court reporting had been up to its usual high standard, we might have understood what the Judge was referring to with that comment!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Apparently you shouldn't take diazepam if you have myasthenia gravis, though (same with zopiclone though yet he was prescribed that...).

https://online.epocrates.com/u/103193/diazepam/Contraindications+Cautions

Plus it's very addictive so doctors will only usually prescribe it for a short time period.

NOR betablockers! I find this all a bit odd. None of the doctors have stated he has MG. So many drugs cause problems, and he seems to have been offered many of them. What is going on? Does he not have MG after all? It is such a debilitating disease how on earth could it not be mentioned if he is a genuine sufferer. MG sufferers can often have bradycardia (very slow heartbeat). Beta blockers would slow the heart even more. I confess I am a bit gobsmacked with all this contraindicated medication.

 

[neteditor]

But can you deduce what the judge meant by saying that at that point? Was he being a bit sarcastic - and if so how?

Very difficult to tell exactly from the snippets we get from court, but as it appears to be the last bit of evidence today, I assume the judge was just delighted to be able to finish the day's proceedings quickly. In my experience, Judge's very often think they are comedians.

 

[icemaiden65]

Having taken Zopliclone myself, I know it has a very nasty, bitter aftertaste that clings to your tongue - I have frequently known it to linger the following morning after taking it. I cannot believe Helen didn't experience this - she must have blamed it on something else, one of her other supplements perhaps. A great shame because I think if she had knowingly experienced sleeping tablets in the past then maybe, just maybe, she could have put two and two together and realised he was drugging her. But I know that's unthinkable and shocking and something she no doubt would never have thought possible.

Sad person that I am, I just pulled a Paracetamol capsule apart, emptied out the contents and then put the two halves back together again - perfectly. So, if IS was doing something similar and inserting Zopiclone in place of the paracetamol capsule contents - surely it would just slip down without leaving any bitter taste? I noticed that the capsule itself would actually hold intact at least two of the different sized pills I have to take - maybe he didn't need to crush the Zopiclone?

Having said that, so many Paracetamol capsules are distributed in bubble/foil containers am not sure how he got round that. Unless Helen, with her penchant for supplement pills being in little plastic bags did the same with the likes of pain relief pills?

 

[michelle230]

14:46
'He went from concerned and anxious to being abrupt and cut off'

“He also said he was taking sleeping tablets because he was having sleepless nights

“He went from concerned and anxious to being abrupt and cut off. When the police were there he changed his body language. He relaxed his shoulders. His body language was more at ease.”

Judge: “Agreed facts are wonderful.”[/QUOTE

]Interesting that many visits he requested from mental health workers seem to have been arranged when the police were there. A case of wishful thinking as in, "Oh the poor guy. We`re making him so ill with all this added stress. Maybe we should leave this poor man in peace..."

I think from a lot of today`s evidence I am beginning to see why the prosecutor is quite laid back!

 

[ColourPurple]

Before the trial, the defence team go through all the statements and decide which ones they will accept as fact. Those "agreed facts" are the statements read before the jury but where the witness who made the statement is not called to give evidence. It means their evidence is not contentious and both sides agree on that.

Sorry, my post's a bit confusing. I know what "Agreed facts" are, from following other trials but was asking what the agreed facts are in this trial. I don't think any have been reported in the press.

 

[snoopydog]

People with Asperger's tend to be incapable of deception. Far too honest sometimes. I have Asperger's myself and my brain/mouth filter is very limited. I'd make a terrible spy and I detest lies and liars. I certainly couldn't kill someone and keep it a secret, my guilt would would leak out all over the place.

I think I was thinking of something else and got the word wrong! Not sure what the thing was I was thinking.... :-/ him just not able to read other people I guess....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cottonweaver]

NOR betablockers! I find this all a bit odd. None of the doctors have stated he has MG. So many drugs cause problems, and he seems to have been offered many of them. What is going on? Does he not have MG after all? It is such a debilitating disease how on earth could it not be mentioned if he is a genuine sufferer. MG sufferers can often have bradycardia (very slow heartbeat). Beta blockers would slow the heart even more. I confess I am a bit gobsmacked with all this contraindicated medication.

I waited all day for a mention of M. gravis! Maybe it comes tomorrow?
Instead we got "On April 21 he was prescribed beta blockers. He was a normal man and nothing about him gave me cause for concern.”
Only Dr Buzacksi(sp) in week 1 mentioned M.G.