GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #4

[snoopydog]

Sad person that I am, I just pulled a Paracetamol capsule apart, emptied out the contents and then put the two halves back together again - perfectly. So, if IS was doing something similar and inserting Zopiclone in place of the paracetamol capsule contents - surely it would just slip down without leaving any bitter taste? I noticed that the capsule itself would actually hold intact at least two of the different sized pills I have to take - maybe he didn't need to crush the Zopiclone?

Having said that, so many Paracetamol capsules are distributed in bubble/foil containers am not sure how he got round that. Unless Helen, with her penchant for supplement pills being in little plastic bags did the same with the likes of pain relief pills?

This is my point where I said he would have to wait till she had a headache and asked him to bring them to her. He couldn't bring 2 paracetamol in the plastic packet.....


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[neteditor]

Sorry, my post's a bit confusing. I know what "Agreed facts" are, from following other trials but was asking what the agreed facts are in this trial. I don't think any have been reported in the press.

I can't recall, have there been other statements read to the court without witness present?

 

[neteditor]

I waited all day for a mention of M. gravis! Maybe it comes tomorrow?
Instead we got "On April 21 he was prescribed beta blockers. He was a normal man and nothing about him gave me cause for concern.”
Only Dr Buzacksi(sp) in week 1 mentioned M.G.

That caught my attention too... normal man... with all his health conditions plus the presumed anxiety of a missing loved one.

 

[ColourPurple]

I think the defence are going to use this exchange as proof that HB was alive in the house when IS left that afternoon.

Simon Russell Flint, defending, asked the detective: "The pattern you found was that whenever somebody goes out it was activated - whenever the house is left empty?"
DC Stewart said: "That is the indication."
"You wouldn't activate it, set the alarm if you were going out but leaving someone inside the house?" Mr Russell Flint asked.
The witness responded: "There is no indication of that at all."

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017...-show-someone-leaving-on-day-author-vanished/

 

[neteditor]

This is my point where I said he would have to wait till she had a headache and asked him to bring them to her. He couldn't bring 2 paracetamol in the plastic packet.....


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He might pop a couple out and hand them over with a glass of water (or whatever) though?

 

[Squamous]

He might pop a couple out and hand them over with a glass of water (or whatever) though?

This is what my hubby does if he brings me a pill.

 

[snoopydog]

He might pop a couple out and hand them over with a glass of water (or whatever) though?

Exactly


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[Moll]

I think the defence are going to use this exchange as proof that HB was alive in the house when IS left that afternoon.


http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2017...-show-someone-leaving-on-day-author-vanished/

It's not proof, though, is it? Whenever they cling to a bit of evidence it's contradicted by something else, such as IS's own evidence about her having left to go to Broadstairs.

 

[snoopydog]

It's not proof, though, is it? Whenever they cling to a bit of evidence it's contradicted by something else, such as IS's own evidence about her having left to go to Broadstairs.

They can't really use it because it shows that she never set the alarm when she 'left', unless she left when he was home so didn't set the alarm..... he already said the last time he saw her she was at the window when he left


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[snoopydog]

IS story is so flimsy I bet the whole jury have already decided he's well guilty


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[Alyce]

I waited all day for a mention of M. gravis! Maybe it comes tomorrow?
Instead we got "On April 21 he was prescribed beta blockers. He was a normal man and nothing about him gave me cause for concern.”
Only Dr Buzacksi(sp) in week 1 mentioned M.G.

There was a mention of MGravis, but the reporting today has been so * condensed* ( polite word ) that there is only this snippet - which presumably is the Defence trying to show that IS is not well enough to do any DIY or manual work.



Myasthenia gravis
Simon Russell Flint, defending: “After April 11 you were told they were planning to get married? It was a secret - other people needed to be told?”
Mr Priest: “It was a secret.”

Mr Russell Flint: “Myasthenia gravis and other issues. You knew Mr Stewart had collapsed before and was unable to work. The house itself had not had much done to it?”
Mr Priest: “It was a lovely house but it needed some work done to it. Helen liked decorating.”

 

[Moll]

I can't recall, have there been other statements read to the court without witness present?

Ah - is it just that this was the last thing before they adjourned, and it was a witness statement rather than a witness present, so the judge was saying good, we can all go home and not waste time on futile cross-examination? Or similar?

Just realised you said pretty much that before - sorry, the penny has only just dropped!

 

[ColourPurple]

It's not proof, though, is it? Whenever they cling to a bit of evidence it's contradicted by something else, such as IS's own evidence about her having left to go to Broadstairs.

The prosecution seemed to want to use it as proof that Helen hadn't left, as she hadn't switched the alarm on...however I think the defence have successfully argued that it could also be used as proof that Helen must have been there alive when IS left as he didn't switch the alarm on when he left either. So I guess they cancel each other out.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I waited all day for a mention of M. gravis! Maybe it comes tomorrow?
Instead we got "On April 21 he was prescribed beta blockers. He was a normal man and nothing about him gave me cause for concern.”
Only Dr Buzacksi(sp) in week 1 mentioned M.G.

I need to go back and find exactly what Dr Buzacksi said.

 

[ColourPurple]

and - because the alarm was not switched on, Joe and Nick could make an easy entrance !

Yup.I wonder did he plan to not set the alarm so he could argue HB was still there alive and well when he left or is it just a stroke of luck.

 

[cottonweaver]

There was a mention of MGravis, but the reporting today has been so * condensed* ( polite word ) that there is only this snippet - which presumably is the Defence trying to show that IS is not well enough to do any DIY or manual work.



Myasthenia gravis
Simon Russell Flint, defending: “After April 11 you were told they were planning to get married? It was a secret - other people needed to be told?”
Mr Priest: “It was a secret.”

Mr Russell Flint: “Myasthenia gravis and other issues. You knew Mr Stewart had collapsed before and was unable to work. The house itself had not had much done to it?”
Mr Priest: “It was a lovely house but it needed some work done to it. Helen liked decorating.”

ooo yes. tx.

way it's transcribed,BIB sounds almost facetious from Flint.
I'd like to know, maybe tomorrow, what severity his M.g is and whether he 's done cynical "doctor shopping" in the past.

 

[pinklilies]

More likely to be crushed and put in a capsule than in the tea then.

Could they be crushed and put in food and then cooked? Would they still have same effect?

I just have a thought...

 

[cottonweaver]

I need to go back and find exactly what Dr Buzacksi said.

he's not an M.g specialist- It's only reason I didn't quote it earlier, presume it will be disregarded?. He treated the intestine.
but it's here IB:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/helen-bailey-murder-trial-week-12452783

 

[Alyce]

Yup.I wonder did he plan to not set the alarm so he could argue HB was still there alive and well when he left or is it just a stroke of luck.

Interesting thought.
A clever person would have realised they could not set the alarm - but I don't put him in that category.

Also ...
We know IS must have departed at about 5.30pm to get to the bowls by 6pm - but would not set the alarm because OS was at home.
We also know that OS would depart round about 6.30pm to go to cadets.

Was OS in the habit of setting the alarm when he went out ?
If yes, then shouldn't he have been asked about what he did on this evening ?

By his own account he said he didnt see Helen or Boris when he was at home that evening.
He also said there was no discussion with his father about Helen or Boris on that evening.
So he didn't actually know whether they were home or not.

Wouldnt he have done a quick check so that he would know whether or not to set the alarm ?

 

[Squamous]

I think the only thing that's been mentioned about the MG so far is the defence asking the bowel man if the condition might make IS randomly grin at police officers under questioning. Well, not in so many words but that's what they were driving at.