GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #6

[cottonweaver]

I know it's not notes, but in the Butler murder trial JG had a photo of Ellie that she carried with her from the dock to the witness box every day, and made a big show of stroking her fingers over throughout her evidence. The judge said to her 'I can see that it very important to you, don't forget to take it with you' or wtte, and she said back to him 'yes, I'd like to enter this into evidence if I may'. They never took her up on the request.

Conniving @?>%$%^&(

Didn't she also take notes throughout the trial, think they poss did that for each other too when one of them was up testifying.

 

[Duchy]

:snowflake: Snowing heavily here now - anyone else got snow where they are?:snowflake:

No, too close to the sea, but it's cold, the wind is howling, the windows are rattling and the waves are crashing. Time to batten down the hatches.

 

[neteditor]

Didn't she also take notes throughout the trial, think they poss did that for each other too when one of them was up testifying.

You can make notes in the dock but you can't take them into the witness stand.

 

[neteditor]

I know it's not notes, but in the Butler murder trial JG had a photo of Ellie that she carried with her from the dock to the witness box every day, and made a big show of stroking her fingers over throughout her evidence. The judge said to her 'I can see that it very important to you, don't forget to take it with you' or wtte, and she said back to him 'yes, I'd like to enter this into evidence if I may'. They never took her up on the request.

Conniving @?>%$%^&(

Did you see she lodged an appeal in November? Evil woman.

 

[cottonweaver]

I know it's not notes, but in the Butler murder trial JG had a photo of Ellie that she carried with her from the dock to the witness box every day, and made a big show of stroking her fingers over throughout her evidence. The judge said to her 'I can see that it very important to you, don't forget to take it with you' or wtte, and she said back to him 'yes, I'd like to enter this into evidence if I may'. They never took her up on the request.

Conniving @?>%$%^&(

totally.
That's definitely the worst case that I've ever followed on Ws. Don't normally follow a case about child murder but the blatant duplicity over years, drawn out in the media, was compelling for me.
"worst" because it was a small child snatched from her lovely grandparents and given to effective strangers with long drawn out suffering & domestic terrorism.

 

[Moll]

Agree - I have come across these references to occasional meds before on her blog.
Extremely reverently snipped by me
( I made a joke about flow charts earlier, I hope that hasn't offended anyone but he certainly needed resources and prep time to try to get all his details to match up - even his plot and character motives are completely to .)
.

Certainly not, CW, why did you think so? Were you unthanked - ignored, even? I chuckled, but may not have registered that post in any other way. Since neteditor's (semi?) jokey reference to not getting replies or thanks sometimes, I realise how very inconsistent I am, according to mood, time available etc.
Anyway, your convoluted fantasy map of IS's scenarios was great.

 

[Tortoise]

Did you she she lodged an appeal in November? Evil woman.

I'll have to look into that, no I hadn't heard.

 

[cottonweaver]

You can make notes in the dock but you can't take them into the witness stand.

Tx NetEd.
I have been up in the witness box a couple of times and I definitely didn't have notes but did "preview" as far as I could but getting back to IS I do wonder how he remembers what he has said so that he can review it overnight. can you access trial coverage when you are on remand? eg Cambs news blog which has some verbatim Q&As.

 

[cottonweaver]

Certainly not, CW, why did you think so? Were you unthanked - ignored, even? I chuckled, but may not have registered that post in any other way. Since neteditor's (semi?) jokey reference to not getting replies or thanks sometimes, I realise how very inconsistent I am, according to mood, time available etc.
Anyway, your convoluted fantasy map of IS's scenarios was great.

BIB It was a topical quip Moll. Akin to my later "humour alert" advisory notice.

Yes I think we have to accept that IS has put a great deal of time and energy into his B.S. Maybe he didn't ever record anything on paper in 2015 & 2016 and he is a natural crammer with a great memory. I think that's possible - just cause I need to sketch stuff out in visual form, doesn't mean he needs to.
That M.Webster ( the widower) seems to have had that capacity to do stuff on the fly too.
That said, I'd love to have known what else was taken to landfill or as another poster mentioned last week, was dumped at the many service station stops to BS.

 

[snoopydog]

Ah I've just had a rethink on this.

What if ;

Jamie finds the note and - thinking that it is the note that Helen had left ( and which his father says he has thrown out ) he takes a pic to show to the police, in an effort to exonerate his father. Look, here's the proof, here's the note my dad told you about.
Then of course it all backfires, as IS admits that he wrote this note.

Plus, on the same lines, wouldnt Jamie be wondering why his father never did leave this note out, on the hall table or elsewhere, on Saturday April 16, when he set off for Broadstairs.

Catching up here.... I think Jamie KNOWS his dad did it and maybe it's part gut feeling and maybe it's to do with how IS had been behaving while Helen was missing I don't know but I reckon he knows it in himself and that's why he's not visiting him.

The way IS behaves is just odd so imagine you're around him all the time to see that. It would be pretty obvious he was guilty. Jamie would want to wish he wasn't mind you I'm sure....


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[neteditor]

Certainly not, CW, why did you think so? Were you unthanked - ignored, even? I chuckled, but may not have registered that post in any other way. Since neteditor's (semi?) jokey reference to not getting replies or thanks sometimes, I realise how very inconsistent I am, according to mood, time available etc.
Anyway, your convoluted fantasy map of IS's scenarios was great.

It was definitely fully jokey, I too often don't thank especially if I am doing a big catch up without a lot of time I'm sure we all do the same.

 

[snoopydog]

I don't think Nick and JoeDave were invented until after he saw the prosecution case against him.

Totally agree. I think he was going with the story 1, she vanished while on the way to broadstairs for a break and story 2, nijoedave wasn't made up till much later. I think this is the main problem with his defence. He's trying to fit a fabricated story with another fabricated story and they just don't fit. I think that's what strimmer is going to show. IS has 2 totally different defences and even if you believe one of them it still shows that he's a liar. I think that's why strimmer keeps giving him the options like, it has to have been him or nick and joe and IS says, yes. Those are the only times he's not lying because it's him.

Hope this makes a bit of sense I'm half asleep and rambling...


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[neteditor]

Tx NetEd.
I have been up in the witness box a couple of times and I definitely didn't have notes but did "preview" as far as I could but getting back to IS I do wonder how he remembers what he has said so that he can review it overnight. can you access trial coverage when you are on remand? eg Cambs news blog which has some verbatim Q&As.

I may be wrong but I don't believe there is anything to stop a defendant reading trial reports. He will have his statements etc I should imagine. I think he'll have a copy of the trial bundle that the defence has been served.

 

[snoopydog]

I don't know what to think about that. He must have been rooting through JS' diaries before his arrest. I think possibly he was readying an excuse to blame it on an embittered business contact if he was ever caught, but hadn't fine tuned the details until after his arrest.

I've been wondering if that's just sheer luck that there's a few matching names. We don't know how many diaries there are and how many people are noted in them. Could be loads...


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[snoopydog]

To be fair, she did write the following on her blog:




http://planetgrief.com/2012/09/28/postcard-from-the-edge/

ETA just found confirmation about her being prescribed beta blockers, too...



http://planetgrief.com/2011/06/28/on-the-couch-counselling-part-one/

I think if she was that reluctant to take a Valium there's no chance she'd take zopiclone. I get a feeling she was the type who would avoid anything possibly habit forming and zopiclone fall into that range I believe...


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[Alyce]

Daily List for Monday 13 February 2017 at BRICKET ROAD ST ALBANS


Court 1 - sitting at 10:00 AM

HIS HONOUR JUDGE BRIGHT QC
For Review
T20150226 XXXXXXXX
41C12070015
DRR - Review


Trial (Part Heard)
T20167121 STEWART Ian
41E12190616
PAPER FILE

Published: 10 February 2017 at 15:33

 

[Moll]

BIB It was a topical quip Moll. Akin to my later "humour alert" advisory notice.

Yes I think we have to accept that IS has put a great deal of time and energy into his B.S. Maybe he didn't ever record anything on paper in 2015 & 2016 and he is a natural crammer with a great memory. I think that's possible - just cause I need to sketch stuff out in visual form, doesn't mean he needs to.
That M.Webster ( the widower) seems to have had that capacity to do stuff on the fly too.
That said, I'd love to have known what else was taken to landfill or as another poster mentioned last week, was dumped at the many service station stops to BS.

Oh, right, I got the second one but was puzzled by the first for some reason!

Yes, it's frustrating that a lot may never be found out because he's got rid of the evidence. I don't get the impression he has a superb memory, even allowing for feigned memory loss. We know he's made a lot of slips. Cramming for short-term purposes (such as barristers have to do, of course) he might be good at, but the basic story is so far-fetched compared with the facts we know that I wonder if that will even matter.

M Webster and the dramatisation The Widower have come to mind quite often in the last week.

 

[Rayemonde]

I've been wondering if that's just sheer luck that there's a few matching names. We don't know how many diaries there are and how many people are noted in them. Could be loads...


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We haven't heard what context they were mentioned in in the diary - who were they? Were their names always connected or were they both mentioned separately in different contexts? And do their physical attributes match IS's descriptions of Vic and Bob?

 

[Moll]

It was definitely fully jokey, I too often don't thank especially if I am doing a big catch up without a lot of time I'm sure we all do the same.

Phew, that's a relief! I've never been on a forum with thanks buttons before. Well, I only belong to one other, which is also civilised but predominantly male. If you see the connection.

 

[snoopydog]

I'd also like to hear how his memory loss which he complained about constantly during story 1 has suddenly come back now nijoedave is on the go. Hoping strimmer totally roasts him tomorrow [emoji16]


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