GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #7

[ColourPurple]

This is NOT meant to be flippant. Surely IS didn't have a chance to go out in drag at any point in the time line? I know, totally different stature etc. etc - just a wild card really. OK, silly thought - far too risky and also he had a lot of other things to do that day.

LOL. I won't say the thought didn't cross my mind too

 

[TheRisenBishop]

Thanks,RB.
I do realise this is complex.
I think I've known one, in particular, but he chose a setting in Africa where he could more easily dispense with normal rules and move on when things got difficult.
It's actually more of a shock in a domestic setting. Malcolm Webster comes to mind again - 'The Widower'.

You're right Moll, Malcolm Webster is an obvious comparison. He though, IIRC, was labelled a sociopath. Not that it matters really, they overlap so much.

I think most of us have known people with APD, even if we aren't aware of it. There are so many here on WS who realise someone the know exhibits the signs of APD when they understand the nuances of the disorder. I'm just glad you escaped intact! x

 

[Florrie]

Yes, I'd say zero chance of him falling to pieces. When the trial is over, he will no doubt seek grounds to appeal and keep the whole sorry charade going for as long as possible. He already knows he's lost the verdict; he's just enjoying himself until the party's over.

A little like Jeremy Bamber who still manages to share the most sickening "my dear old Mum and Dad" stuff from prison while continuing to try and blame his sister.


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[michelle230]

Hi CW, this is a really interesting question. Not in how MG and it's associated physical stress affects his behaviour but more how psychopaths in general thrive on stress.

Most of us cannot fathom how Stewart can place himself in a seemingly chaotic maelstrom of lies and fantasy in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But this innate ability of non-violent psychopaths is what makes them more effective under stress than non-psychopaths and why they make great lawyers, doctors, intelligence officers and soldiers.

They possess an ability to, as the heat goes up, to turn their internal emotional temperature down. The crazier things get, the cooler they feel. Stewart almost craves the chaos and senselessness that is anathema to us. He seems to attract it, cultivate it, encourage it, because it’s the only thing that somehow soothes him.

What you find is that the more chaotic a situation, the more that psychopaths have to make decisions under pressure, the better their decision-making gets. The more the pressure builds, the cooler they get; at least in their own perception of things. This is why so many appear to us to be arrogant and confrontational. They aren't actually - but it's counter intuitive, they cannot help but act like this because the ensuing pressure actually "soothes" them and enables them to think more clearly.

That's why I said the other day I really wanted Trimmer to put him under pressure to see how he reacted to tell which end of the APD spectrum he sat. A dead give away was the way he handled the introduction of Nick and Joe to the courtroom. He was almost serenely composed afterwards in his reaction and responses.

Note how under increasing pressure from Trimmer he changes tactics and chooses not to answer, then bites back when he is able. Note also how this appears on the day he murdered Helen. How he interwove the days events into his normal routine and seemingly acted without anyone noticing the ordinary signs you or I would in that situation. Most people would be hyper on adrenaline and then afterwards exhibit exhaustion later in the day.

He attended a bowls tournament and had a Chinese and never gave a single signal to his sons, who knew him well, that something was amiss. In fact it was the opposite - he seemed to thrive on the events following Helen's murder. He was in complete control throughout and had he not made the fatal error of allowing Helen's phone to connect to the router at Broadstairs non of us would be any the wiser.

He is getting off on the stress of this trial, it's soothing him, engaging him, salving him. The drama and stress of the cancer scare and MG would also give him a similar satisfaction. Psychopaths are a truly amazing breed and so different from you or I. It just happens that he is one of the incredibly rare psychopaths that chooses to kill.

This is very interesting RB and in a way what I was trying to explain from my observations yesterday.
In his original statement he gave "no comment" answers except when he could answer without compromising himself in any way. Yesterday in his answers to the many, simple, clear and logical questions that he was asked, he gave the same insubstantial/empty answers to the majority of questions - he had a stockpile of "go to" answers - he answered but actually said nothing. He repeated these answers over and over again so matter how much he was pushed to elaborate. Safe answers. Already planned as he knew he could not answer the questions he was bound to be asked.
However in order to cover himself (defend himself) against the impression he knew he was bound to give to observers, he adopted a superior tone/position by being almost mocking/contemptuous/verging on sneering (he might as well have tagged "You idiot" to the end of each (non) answer he gave) when cross examined.
If it`s any consolation, he came across as a thoroughly unlikable individual. To add to that, the fact he showed no pain at the loss of Helen, in fact no naturally distressed emotions whatsoever, resonated round the courtroom loud and clear. The unclean vibes he emitted polluted the entire courtroom.
I myself, am surprised at how he presented. I was expecting a broken, crying, trembling shambles of a man in the witness box. But no!
And apart from the shocking crime and the sickening details surrounding that crime, he has sought to use and abuse everyone who is of use to him, including Helen`s first husband and now his very own children.
I have come to the conclusion that unless you are a fly on the wall, generally speaking nobody knows anyone!

 

[TheRisenBishop]

Sorry if this was asked and answered already, would you think he is thriving on the stress of prison? Would this inherent ability to manage - if that's the right word - stress mean it would have less of an impact on his MG?

Yes, undoubtedly! That said there are other triggers that cause MG to flare up. Physical stresses can cause it, disease, viruses, fatigue so he's not immune.

 

[TheRisenBishop]

This is very interesting RB and in a way what I was trying to explain from my observations yesterday.
In his original statement he gave "no comment" answers except when he could answer without compromising himself in any way. Yesterday in his answers to the many, simple, clear and logical questions that he was asked, he gave the same insubstantial/empty answers to the majority of questions - he had a stockpile of "go to" answers - he answered but actually said nothing. He repeated these answers over and over again so matter how much he was pushed to elaborate. Safe answers. Already planned as he knew he could not answer the questions he was bound to be asked.
However in order to cover himself (defend himself) against the impression he knew he was bound to give to observers, he adopted a superior tone/position by being almost mocking/contemptuous/verging on sneering (he might as well have tagged "You idiot" to the end of each (non) answer he gave) when cross examined.
If it`s any consolation, he came across as a thoroughly unlikable individual. To add to that, the fact he showed no pain at the loss of Helen, in fact no naturally distressed emotions whatsoever, resonated round the courtroom loud and clear. The unclean vibes he emitted polluted the entire courtroom.
I myself, am surprised at how he presented. I was expecting a broken, crying, trembling shambles of a man in the witness box. But no!
And apart from the shocking crime and the sickening details surrounding that crime, he has sought to use and abuse everyone who is of use to him, including Helen`s first husband and now his very own children.
I have come to the conclusion that unless you are a fly on the wall, generally speaking nobody knows anyone!

Michelle, thanks for this extremely useful first hand insight! Trimmer has had this guy sussed from day one. I've commented upthread about how strategic his cross was and how he would make IS appear to the jury and reveal the true nature of the guy. I'm so pleased you've witnessed this yourself as it surely won't be wasted on the court and this guy will end up going down for the rest of his life for at least one murder.

 

[faybradshaw]

Michelle230, have you seen evidence of any of Diane's family in court, or any supporters of IS, for that matter?

 

[snoopydog]

This is NOT meant to be flippant. Surely IS didn't have a chance to go out in drag at any point in the time line? I know, totally different stature etc. etc - just a wild card really. OK, silly thought - far too risky and also he had a lot of other things to do that day.

With the stuff he's come out with I wouldn't put it past him quite frankly. Think the frame size would be a giveaway mind you ...


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[Florrie]

This is very interesting RB and in a way what I was trying to explain from my observations yesterday.
In his original statement he gave "no comment" answers except when he could answer without compromising himself in any way. Yesterday in his answers to the many, simple, clear and logical questions that he was asked, he gave the same insubstantial/empty answers to the majority of questions - he had a stockpile of "go to" answers - he answered but actually said nothing. He repeated these answers over and over again so matter how much he was pushed to elaborate. Safe answers. Already planned as he knew he could not answer the questions he was bound to be asked.
However in order to cover himself (defend himself) against the impression he knew he was bound to give to observers, he adopted a superior tone/position by being almost mocking/contemptuous/verging on sneering (he might as well have tagged "You idiot" to the end of each (non) answer he gave) when cross examined.
If it`s any consolation, he came across as a thoroughly unlikable individual. To add to that, the fact he showed no pain at the loss of Helen, in fact no naturally distressed emotions whatsoever, resonated round the courtroom loud and clear. The unclean vibes he emitted polluted the entire courtroom.
I myself, am surprised at how he presented. I was expecting a broken, crying, trembling shambles of a man in the witness box. But no!
And apart from the shocking crime and the sickening details surrounding that crime, he has sought to use and abuse everyone who is of use to him, including Helen`s first husband and now his very own children.
I have come to the conclusion that unless you are a fly on the wall, generally speaking nobody knows anyone!

And again regarding Jeremy Bamber...he also came across as very unlikeable in court. He was noted to be almost sneering.


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[DollyDiamond]

Duty called today and I've only just caught up, many thanks for all the updates and insights.

None of today's witnesses have convinced me Helen and Boris were anywhere but within the boundaries of the house, either about to be murdered or lying dead inside that horrible cesspit on Monday 11th April. Eyewitnesses can be easily muddled on detail, but human nature is such that they don't always want to admit it. I doubt today's evidence will have put any significant doubts in the Jury's minds, to undo the conclusions that must surely be fully established after IS' farcical stand-up routine (with special guest appearance by Nick & Joe).

And now on a few matters canine:

Snoopydog - So glad you're OK after your 999 emergency;

Hunkerdown - A beautiful tribute to Helen and Boris, may little Bailey and his loving human family enjoy many wonderful years of fun and cuddles. And finally...

Neteditor - Of course you should get a Boris-Dog, be rude not to. Make that call! X

 

[neteditor]

LOL Dolly, I'll stick to my little pussycats for now, but if the day should ever come that I need a canine companion it would definitely be a mini dachs, loved that little pup my uncle had so much.

 

[hunkerdown]

Duty called today and I've only just caught up, many thanks for all the updates and insights.

None of today's witnesses have convinced me Helen and Boris were anywhere but within the boundaries of the house, either about to be murdered or lying dead inside that horrible cesspit on Monday 11th April. Eyewitnesses can be easily muddled on detail, but human nature is such that they don't always want to admit it. I doubt today's evidence will have put any significant doubts in the Jury's minds, to undo the conclusions that must surely be fully established after IS' farcical stand-up routine (with special guest appearance by Nick & Joe).

And now on a few matters canine:

Snoopydog - So glad you're OK after your 999 emergency;

Hunkerdown - A beautiful tribute to Helen and Boris, may little Bailey and his loving human family enjoy many wonderful years of fun and cuddles. And finally...

Neteditor - Of course you should get a Boris-Dog, be rude not to. Make that call! X

Thanks Dolly - we'll be adding to two other hounds, fun times ahead!


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[BatFace]

With the stuff he's come out with I wouldn't put it past him quite frankly. Think the frame size would be a giveaway mind you ...


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To be honest, I don't think he would be convincing IN ANY WAY...

 

[DollyDiamond]

This is NOT meant to be flippant. Surely IS didn't have a chance to go out in drag at any point in the time line? I know, totally different stature etc. etc - just a wild card really. OK, silly thought - far too risky and also he had a lot of other things to do that day.

Plus, he didn't have a chance to lose six stone in time, Lol!

 

[michelle230]

And again regarding Jeremy Bamber...he also came across as very unlikeable in court. He was noted to be almost sneering.


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Yes Florrie, that was a very interesting case. I have read everything I could get my hands on about Jeremy Bamber. He was definitely an inadequate and entitled narcissist. Full of seething resentment.

He still has a * lot * of followers and supporters including many women who write and visit him and profess to "love" him.

O/T Funnily enough I was just reading about an actress (small bit!) who visits and plans to marry Charles Manson! I mean...what a catch!

 

[hunkerdown]

Yes Florrie, that was a very interesting case. I have read everything I could get my hands on about Jeremy Bamber. He was definitely an inadequate and entitled narcissist. Full of seething resentment.

He still has a * lot * of followers and supporters including many women who write and visit him and profess to "love" him.

O/T Funnily enough I was just reading about an actress (small bit!) who visits and plans to marry Charles Manson! I mean...what a catch!

Not sure there will be quite the same enthusiasm for a fat Bee Gee...


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[BatFace]

Not sure there will be quite the same enthusiasm for a fat Bee Gee...


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Hahahahaha

 

[neteditor]

Sorry but you guys are cracking me up again, need more tenalady.

 

[michelle230]

Michelle230, have you seen evidence of any of Diane's family in court, or any supporters of IS, for that matter?

That`s a good question Fayb.

No,no and (definitely) no to IS supporters! Crudely speaking I think that the * other * IS have more support than this one does.
Diane`s family - I couldn`t say. But (and my opinion only), I wouldn`t be at all surprised if some members of the family popped by here and there. I would be more surprised if they hadn`t. After all, they have a vested interest and unanswered questions themselves.

 

[TheRisenBishop]

Not sure there will be quite the same enthusiasm for a fat Bee Gee...


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Nail on the head! That pic of him and Helen has been eating away at me for ages, thinking who he reminds me of? It was a fat BeeGee! Inspired!