I don't think so either. I also think if you can't find murder you can't find manslaughter either. I think people are seeing if as a cop out rather than a crime in its own right.
Definitely. I’d have to be persuaded by evidence that was in line with a judge’s direction for manslaughter. But I’m not sure I have been from the snippets we’ve heard. Guilty for rape though.
I just feel I’m more likely to believe he could accidentally kill her whilst raping her but not be sure if he has. And to go back later to check and that’s when he could have moved LS. I wonder if she could have choked on her vomit - not sure if there would be signs after being in the water so long.
I can’t ever imagine daring to go back knowing someone has died if I’d _already_ moved their body. Which leaves me thinking he went back to fix things by checking to see if she was really dead and moving her or that he hadn’t hurt her and she’d gone. BUT I’m not a murderer so obviously don’t have insights into the mind of one!
Also if he intended to seriously harm her and he did, why not just put in that extra time, even a minute extra, to dispose of her body immediately I wonder. I struggle to understand why he’d think “I’ll do that later”. Unless he was disturbed by something. So I can’t believe he didn’t do all those things in the one visit if he intended to murder her. But also struggle with how he did it all in 7.5 minutes.
I completely discount the screams because of the contradictory timing, how long they go on for in the little time they were there together, and the fact there is a reasonable explanation for screams (foxes). I think they fog the evidence too much.
I’ve been particularly interested in this case as I was assaulted in Hull at the age of 21 many years ago. I was so drunk, that when I did the e fit for the police, it was the man, who found me wandering three miles away from the scene with my top torn and hanging off, that I described! But he did also try to kiss me. He called the police though. I was found closer to home but in the completely wrong direction. Edit to add that for those who are local, at the time I lived Priory Road near the cottingham end and I was found near Anlaby. So I’d headed in that direction from the city centre but didn’t turn to home. Sorry for the non locals, I’ve no idea how to do maps.
I vaguely remember crying a lot but no screaming and remembering “I just need to put one foot in front of another and I’ll move and be safe”. I had no eye on the path I was taking beyond each step. I remember watching my feet moving but no focus on the surrounding area.
I also apparently passed a couple who rang it in, but I didn’t ask them to help me. They offered to (I was told by the police) but I carried on alone. If I’d been seen on cameras I imagine I’d have been all over the path, as an hour earlier I was falling over. (I always used to fall over a lot when drunk - or down stairs in bars). So I can really believe also that LS just “moved” and fell into the river.
We also have a history in Hull of people going missing after nights out and being found or presumed to be in the river. Or falling into our local marina is another thing that seems to happen more often than you’d expect.
I’ve also been so hypothermic on a night out I’ve done the removing clothes and burrowing thing. To the point strangers have thrown coats on me. That was a New Year’s Eve when my taxi didn’t arrive. I remember wanting to find somewhere nice to sleep. But crying that the whole world hated me. I don’t miss my 20s!
The day LS was being searched for, there was a murder mystery event in the city centre that I attended with my family. We could see the helicopters but weren’t sure why they were out. Really sad to think poor Libby was in the river nearby.
edited above to add approx where I lived for more context
