Wow, I'm shocked at that after seeing photos. The defendant was even lighter!
Found Deceased UK - Lindsay Birbeck, 47, Accrington, 12 Aug 2019 *Arrest* #4
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"Where does the Bibby's evidence take you?
"You have to think about what Mrs Bibby had to say.
"She did not say 'I saw a red jacket'.
"When she first spoke about what she had seen she said 'red material or red fabric'.
"We do not know what she saw, how long it was there or where she saw it.
Mrs Bibby was clear that what she saw was on the fence further down the path.
"That is a different place from what we have on page 59. It may be around 50m down from where she said.
"Where she might have seen it doesn't matter.
"But what someone thinks and says is important.
"What she told the police about red material is what it amounted to.
"You do not have anything clear or reliable.
"The chances someone could've folded that up so you couldn't see the sleeves doesn't make any sense.
"Whether she saw something red or not, it doesn't give you any clear evidence that that was Lindsay Birbeck's jacket.
"There's no evidence to say she was killed there or thereabouts.
"We simply don't know where she was killed.
"You have to think about what Mrs Bibby had to say.
"She did not say 'I saw a red jacket'.
"When she first spoke about what she had seen she said 'red material or red fabric'.
"We do not know what she saw, how long it was there or where she saw it.
Mrs Bibby was clear that what she saw was on the fence further down the path.
"That is a different place from what we have on page 59. It may be around 50m down from where she said.
"Where she might have seen it doesn't matter.
"But what someone thinks and says is important.
"What she told the police about red material is what it amounted to.
"You do not have anything clear or reliable.
"The chances someone could've folded that up so you couldn't see the sleeves doesn't make any sense.
"Whether she saw something red or not, it doesn't give you any clear evidence that that was Lindsay Birbeck's jacket.
"There's no evidence to say she was killed there or thereabouts.
"We simply don't know where she was killed.
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"Where does the Bibby's evidence take you?
"You have to think about what Mrs Bibby had to say.
"She did not say 'I saw a red jacket'.
"When she first spoke about what she had seen she said 'red material or red fabric'.
"We do not know what she saw, how long it was there or where she saw it.
Mrs Bibby was clear that what she saw was on the fence further down the path.
"That is a different place from what we have on page 59. It may be around 50m down from where she said.
"Where she might have seen it doesn't matter.
"But what someone thinks and says is important.
"What she told the police about red material is what it amounted to.
"You do not have anything clear or reliable.
"The chances someone could've folded that up so you couldn't see the sleeves doesn't make any sense.
"Whether she saw something red or not, it doesn't give you any clear evidence that that was Lindsay Birbeck's jacket.
"There's no evidence to say she was killed there or thereabouts.
"We simply don't know where she was killed.
The defendant is seen about 6.20pm and he then comes back with a rucksack.
"And then an hour or so after that we see him coming back towards Whitewell Road.
"About 8.30pm he goes back up, this time with a wheelie bin.
"And at sometime that night you may think he tried to cut her leg and put her in the wheelie bin.
"It's horrendous to think that but he has admitted to that, he admitted to putting her in a bin.
"Then he comes out of there without the wheelie bin.
"You might think that he has put her in the wheelie bin.
"As terrible and ghastly as that is, he has admitted to that.
He was not trying to conceal himself on that Saturday when he was walking through Accrington with a wheelie bin.
"He went into a cemetery and buried her.
"And then we see him coming and going from the cemetery.
"He wasn't exactly trying to distance himself from the cemetery was he and what he had done.
"You might have thought someone trying to avoid detection would avoid that.
"If he killed her up at the Coppice why not bury her there.
"It makes no sense for someone who has killed her up on the Coppice to bring her back to a public cemetery.
"He is hardly hiding is he?
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
"You have to think about what Mrs Bibby had to say.
"She did not say 'I saw a red jacket'.
"When she first spoke about what she had seen she said 'red material or red fabric'.
"We do not know what she saw, how long it was there or where she saw it.
Mrs Bibby was clear that what she saw was on the fence further down the path.
"That is a different place from what we have on page 59. It may be around 50m down from where she said.
"Where she might have seen it doesn't matter.
"But what someone thinks and says is important.
"What she told the police about red material is what it amounted to.
"You do not have anything clear or reliable.
"The chances someone could've folded that up so you couldn't see the sleeves doesn't make any sense.
"Whether she saw something red or not, it doesn't give you any clear evidence that that was Lindsay Birbeck's jacket.
"There's no evidence to say she was killed there or thereabouts.
"We simply don't know where she was killed.
The defendant is seen about 6.20pm and he then comes back with a rucksack.
"And then an hour or so after that we see him coming back towards Whitewell Road.
"About 8.30pm he goes back up, this time with a wheelie bin.
"And at sometime that night you may think he tried to cut her leg and put her in the wheelie bin.
"It's horrendous to think that but he has admitted to that, he admitted to putting her in a bin.
"Then he comes out of there without the wheelie bin.
"You might think that he has put her in the wheelie bin.
"As terrible and ghastly as that is, he has admitted to that.
He was not trying to conceal himself on that Saturday when he was walking through Accrington with a wheelie bin.
"He went into a cemetery and buried her.
"And then we see him coming and going from the cemetery.
"He wasn't exactly trying to distance himself from the cemetery was he and what he had done.
"You might have thought someone trying to avoid detection would avoid that.
"If he killed her up at the Coppice why not bury her there.
"It makes no sense for someone who has killed her up on the Coppice to bring her back to a public cemetery.
"He is hardly hiding is he?
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
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Evidence of Judith Bibby
Mr Fenhalls is now referring the jury to the evidence of Coppice walker Judith Bibby who said she saw ‘red material’ on a wire fence around the time of Lindsay’s disappearance.
He said “She said ‘it’s not I saw a red jacket’. When she first spoke to somebody about what she had seen, the police officer recorded her as saying ‘red material or red fabric’.
“We don’t know what she saw, how long it was there or indeed where she saw it.”
Couldn't say it was Lindsay Birbeck's jacket or where she was killed
Mr Fenhalls said there was a discrepancy of around 50m in the location where Mrs Bibby said she first saw the red garment and where it was later reported.
He said: “Whether she is right or wrong about that it may not matter but it shows the difficulties and trying to tease out what she saw.
“It’s one of the reasons you may think when she told police on August 15 that she saw red fabric or material, that’s all it really amounted to.
“You don’t have anything that’s very clear evidence to say this was Lindsay Birbeck’s jacket.
“It doesn’t help you to conclude that Lindsay Birbeck was killed there or there abouts. We simply don’t know where she was killed.
“That evidence doesn’t give you any kind of foundation at all.”
Defendant pleaded guilty to a 'terrible and ghastly' act
Mr Fenhalls said the defendant has admitted moving and burying her body at Accrington Cemetery.
He said; “He has pleaded guilty to that. He has pleaded guilty to agreeing and burying her body.
“The ins and outs of why he did that is a different matter.
“You may sensibly conclude she has put her in the wheelie bin.
“Terribly and ghastly though that is, he has pleaded guilty to that.”
Not trying to conceal himself
Mr Fenhalls said: ““He was not trying to conceal himself walking through Accrington at 1.40pm on August 17 with a wheelie bin.
“He took that wheelie bin with Mrs Birbeck in it. He took her to the cemetery, a very public place where people walk in, and found a place to bury here.
“He covered her and then he goes backwards and forwards over the subsequent days. Make of those what you will. I suggest he wasn’t exactly trying to distance himself from the cemetery was he?
“You might feel somebody who was trying to cunningly avoid detection may try to avoid the area. If he killed her why not bury her up there [at the Coppice]? Why go back at all? It doesn’t make any sense.
“The prosecution have put it that he is some cunning mastermind. It makes no sense for somebody who killed somebody in an open wild area to bring her back to a public cemetery.
“He is hardly hiding, is he?”
No mastermind job'
Mr Fenhalls said: “It was no mastermind job. He decided for whatever reason that the job he was asked to do [by the unknown man] was take her to the public cemetery in plain sight.
“Those are not the actions I suggest of a boy that killed her.”
Mr Fenhalls is now referring the jury to the evidence of Coppice walker Judith Bibby who said she saw ‘red material’ on a wire fence around the time of Lindsay’s disappearance.
He said “She said ‘it’s not I saw a red jacket’. When she first spoke to somebody about what she had seen, the police officer recorded her as saying ‘red material or red fabric’.
“We don’t know what she saw, how long it was there or indeed where she saw it.”
Couldn't say it was Lindsay Birbeck's jacket or where she was killed
Mr Fenhalls said there was a discrepancy of around 50m in the location where Mrs Bibby said she first saw the red garment and where it was later reported.
He said: “Whether she is right or wrong about that it may not matter but it shows the difficulties and trying to tease out what she saw.
“It’s one of the reasons you may think when she told police on August 15 that she saw red fabric or material, that’s all it really amounted to.
“You don’t have anything that’s very clear evidence to say this was Lindsay Birbeck’s jacket.
“It doesn’t help you to conclude that Lindsay Birbeck was killed there or there abouts. We simply don’t know where she was killed.
“That evidence doesn’t give you any kind of foundation at all.”
Defendant pleaded guilty to a 'terrible and ghastly' act
Mr Fenhalls said the defendant has admitted moving and burying her body at Accrington Cemetery.
He said; “He has pleaded guilty to that. He has pleaded guilty to agreeing and burying her body.
“The ins and outs of why he did that is a different matter.
“You may sensibly conclude she has put her in the wheelie bin.
“Terribly and ghastly though that is, he has pleaded guilty to that.”
Not trying to conceal himself
Mr Fenhalls said: ““He was not trying to conceal himself walking through Accrington at 1.40pm on August 17 with a wheelie bin.
“He took that wheelie bin with Mrs Birbeck in it. He took her to the cemetery, a very public place where people walk in, and found a place to bury here.
“He covered her and then he goes backwards and forwards over the subsequent days. Make of those what you will. I suggest he wasn’t exactly trying to distance himself from the cemetery was he?
“You might feel somebody who was trying to cunningly avoid detection may try to avoid the area. If he killed her why not bury her up there [at the Coppice]? Why go back at all? It doesn’t make any sense.
“The prosecution have put it that he is some cunning mastermind. It makes no sense for somebody who killed somebody in an open wild area to bring her back to a public cemetery.
“He is hardly hiding, is he?”
No mastermind job'
Mr Fenhalls said: “It was no mastermind job. He decided for whatever reason that the job he was asked to do [by the unknown man] was take her to the public cemetery in plain sight.
“Those are not the actions I suggest of a boy that killed her.”
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Also mentioned twice now that maybe she was killed by someone she knew. Playing to local rumour, methinks
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Where does this evidence and science actually take you.
"It establishes he is guilty of count three - which he pleaded to.
"He must've done some fantastic cleaning of the bin.
"Is he forensically aware?
https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/lindsay-birbeck-murder-trial-daysix-18704469
"It establishes he is guilty of count three - which he pleaded to.
"He must've done some fantastic cleaning of the bin.
"Is he forensically aware?
https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/lindsay-birbeck-murder-trial-daysix-18704469
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Put out of your mind any thoughts that PC Cuthbertson and his dog were outwitted by some mastermind who had concealed the body.
"The first dog that went near there was Mr Parkinson's dog.
"What the defendant decided to do was take her to a cemetery in plain site.
"Those are not the actions I suggest of a boy that killed her.
"The key question is this - if he killed her, what on earth makes sense about going to get a wheelie bin in broad daylight and burying her in a public cemetery?
"And then comes the publicity.
And the police did a good job.
"And then he voluntarily goes to the police station with his family to hand himself in.
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
"The first dog that went near there was Mr Parkinson's dog.
"What the defendant decided to do was take her to a cemetery in plain site.
"Those are not the actions I suggest of a boy that killed her.
"The key question is this - if he killed her, what on earth makes sense about going to get a wheelie bin in broad daylight and burying her in a public cemetery?
"And then comes the publicity.
And the police did a good job.
"And then he voluntarily goes to the police station with his family to hand himself in.
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
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The first dog that went near there was Mr Parkinson's dog.
Does he know something that we dont ? We have been told the police handler dog went within metres of the site of Lindsay's body in the cemetery
Does he know something that we dont ? We have been told the police handler dog went within metres of the site of Lindsay's body in the cemetery
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Publicity appeal
Mr Fenhalls said the defendant voluntarily a police station with his family after a police CCTV appeal was shown in the media.
He told the jury that he then sat through ‘hours’ of interviews.
Police statement is 'lawyer language'
Mr Fenhalls said the police statement sent to the jury was drafted by a lawyer and not written by the defendant himself.
However he said this was still the account of the defendant and not something ‘made up’ by a lawyer.
Mr Fenhalls said: “If you were a lawyer sitting around thinking the best story I could make up, I just found the body and I thought the best thing to do was bury it in a cemetery is the best one.
“Actually saying there is a stranger who offered me money makes less sense, it’s more extraordinary and more implausible unless it’s true.
“Because it’s more extraordinary and less plausible you can think it through and know what is what [the defendant] said.”
https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/lindsay-birbeck-murder-trial-daysix-18704469
Mr Fenhalls said the defendant voluntarily a police station with his family after a police CCTV appeal was shown in the media.
He told the jury that he then sat through ‘hours’ of interviews.
Police statement is 'lawyer language'
Mr Fenhalls said the police statement sent to the jury was drafted by a lawyer and not written by the defendant himself.
However he said this was still the account of the defendant and not something ‘made up’ by a lawyer.
Mr Fenhalls said: “If you were a lawyer sitting around thinking the best story I could make up, I just found the body and I thought the best thing to do was bury it in a cemetery is the best one.
“Actually saying there is a stranger who offered me money makes less sense, it’s more extraordinary and more implausible unless it’s true.
“Because it’s more extraordinary and less plausible you can think it through and know what is what [the defendant] said.”
https://www.lancs.live/news/lancashire-news/lindsay-birbeck-murder-trial-daysix-18704469
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You can see from the voluntary statement that this is a lawyer's statement.
"It reads like something you or I would have drafted. Not the defendant's words.
"But think nothing more that this is his account.
"What would a lawyer say - he would say 'I just found a body and decided the best thing to do would be to bury it'.
"But this account is less plausible.
"The defendant's account is that he was asked to move the body. Nobody would make that up unless it was true.
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
"It reads like something you or I would have drafted. Not the defendant's words.
"But think nothing more that this is his account.
"What would a lawyer say - he would say 'I just found a body and decided the best thing to do would be to bury it'.
"But this account is less plausible.
"The defendant's account is that he was asked to move the body. Nobody would make that up unless it was true.
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
Jartykarate
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I think it’s a mistake from the defence trying to say the defendants statement is true, as it is totally unbelievable.
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Ha! Ok. So it's so unbelievable, it must be true
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Lack of CCTV in area
Mr Fenhalls said the police examined around 3,000 hours of CCTV in the area.
However he said despite this there were not cameras covering every area in and out of the Coppice.
He also said the footage showed between 80 and 100 cars going along Peel Park Avenue towards the Coppice.
He said: “The fact that there was no CCTV on Peel Park Avenue and there were a number of entrances to the Coppice - anyone on that road could walk into the Coppice unseen.
“The police, despite all their hours of CCTV and investigation, cannot limit access to the Coppice or the number of people who may have been there.
Mr Fenhalls said the police examined around 3,000 hours of CCTV in the area.
However he said despite this there were not cameras covering every area in and out of the Coppice.
He also said the footage showed between 80 and 100 cars going along Peel Park Avenue towards the Coppice.
He said: “The fact that there was no CCTV on Peel Park Avenue and there were a number of entrances to the Coppice - anyone on that road could walk into the Coppice unseen.
“The police, despite all their hours of CCTV and investigation, cannot limit access to the Coppice or the number of people who may have been there.
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Snap
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The fact that there was no CCTV on Peel Park Avenue and there were a number of entrances to the Coppice - anyone on that road could walk into the Coppice unseen. "The police, despite all their hours of CCTV and investigation, cannot limit access to the Coppice or the number of people who may have been there.
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
LIVE: Jury expected to retire to consider verdict as Lindsay Birbeck murder retrial comes to an end
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Don't know why Lindsay went for walk
Mr Fenhalls said: “We don’t know why she chose to go out for another walk that afternoon. She had already been for a run that morning.
“Maybe she was going out to clear her head, we don’t know. But out she went and somebody killed her.
“Is it really credible that [the defendant] could have killed her?
“We don’t know where he was between 2.20pm and 6.20pm.”
Mr Fenhalls said: “We don’t know why she chose to go out for another walk that afternoon. She had already been for a run that morning.
“Maybe she was going out to clear her head, we don’t know. But out she went and somebody killed her.
“Is it really credible that [the defendant] could have killed her?
“We don’t know where he was between 2.20pm and 6.20pm.”
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What can the prosecution tell you about when she died.
"Mr McLachlan said 'where she was likely to be killed'
"But 'likely' is a supposition isn't it.
"Nobody knows.
"Nobody knows why Lindsay Birbeck went out for a walk that afternoon.
"We just don't know why she went out, again, after going for a run that morning.
"But out she went and somebody killed her.
"Is it really credible that the defendant could have killed her?
"We don't know where he was between 2.20pm and 6.20pm.
But what do we know about the people who knew him.
"His teachers gave up his records straight away and spoke to the police straight away.
"You can be sure that these teachers are honest and are doing their best.
"Mr McLachlan said 'where she was likely to be killed'
"But 'likely' is a supposition isn't it.
"Nobody knows.
"Nobody knows why Lindsay Birbeck went out for a walk that afternoon.
"We just don't know why she went out, again, after going for a run that morning.
"But out she went and somebody killed her.
"Is it really credible that the defendant could have killed her?
"We don't know where he was between 2.20pm and 6.20pm.
But what do we know about the people who knew him.
"His teachers gave up his records straight away and spoke to the police straight away.
"You can be sure that these teachers are honest and are doing their best.
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His teachers gave up his records straight away and spoke to the police straight away.
What I remember is the head teacher saying she got the records ready, as she thought the police would be asking for them...not quite the same as volunteering them
What I remember is the head teacher saying she got the records ready, as she thought the police would be asking for them...not quite the same as volunteering them
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They knew what it was like to try and communicate him.
"And in summary you make think if he was willing to do something he would say yes, and if he didn't want to do something he would say know.
"And you may know that some people with autism, their brains are wired differently and they have a different way of viewing the world.
"They knew he was not motivated by money.
"Mr McLachlan chose to highlight that fact.
"And in summary you make think if he was willing to do something he would say yes, and if he didn't want to do something he would say know.
"And you may know that some people with autism, their brains are wired differently and they have a different way of viewing the world.
"They knew he was not motivated by money.
"Mr McLachlan chose to highlight that fact.
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