GUILTY UK- Major incident declared in Southport after multiple stabbings, 29 July 2024

[Skigh]

It could take YEARS for cops to find Southport killer's search history

The 'violence-obsessed' teenager deleted his internet browsing history minutes before getting a taxi to the Taylor Swift-themed summer club and launching his mass murder bid.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The detective who led the investigation today revealed his frustration that it could take 'years' for search engines to supply the data they hold.

However global tech giant Google hit back, saying it would have been able to pass on any information it held had officers gone through 'established channels'.

Following the horrifying killings of Bebe King, six, Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, and Alice da Silva Aguiar, nine, in Southport last summer, police seized multiple electronic devices from Rudakubana's family home in the nearby village of Banks.

Examination of a Lenovo tablet found that minutes before setting off, the killer had researched the April 2024 Sydney church attack, in which Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel and five others were stabbed, on social media platform X, formerly Twitter.

But while he was found to have downloaded a host of documents and leaflets about some of the 20th century's worst atrocities, detectives say they have been unable to access his deleted browsing history because the dance studio murders weren't declared a terrorist incident.

 

[bringmeacupoft]

It could take YEARS for cops to find Southport killer's search history

The 'violence-obsessed' teenager deleted his internet browsing history minutes before getting a taxi to the Taylor Swift-themed summer club and launching his mass murder bid.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The detective who led the investigation today revealed his frustration that it could take 'years' for search engines to supply the data they hold.

However global tech giant Google hit back, saying it would have been able to pass on any information it held had officers gone through 'established channels'.

Following the horrifying killings of Bebe King, six, Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, and Alice da Silva Aguiar, nine, in Southport last summer, police seized multiple electronic devices from Rudakubana's family home in the nearby village of Banks.

Examination of a Lenovo tablet found that minutes before setting off, the killer had researched the April 2024 Sydney church attack, in which Bishop Mar Mari Emmanuel and five others were stabbed, on social media platform X, formerly Twitter.

But while he was found to have downloaded a host of documents and leaflets about some of the 20th century's worst atrocities, detectives say they have been unable to access his deleted browsing history because the dance studio murders weren't declared a terrorist incident.

Rudakubana used a VPN to conceal his identity – and the fact he was under 18 – when he bought the 20cm knife used in the attack from Amazon 16 days earlier.


More evidence of his covering up and planning

 

[Sweeper2000]

I remember a case with a thread on WS,
about a little French boy on a trip to London
who was pushed from a kind of sightseeing terrace many floors high in a Museum.

The boy survived thank Goodness!

The perp was a person with MH issues and very violent.
He was staying in a kind of facility and was deemed to be fit to go with a group to London on a sightseeing tour too.

He escaped his group and guardians and suddenly attacked the boy.

My point is,
there are institutions which deal with troubled youths in the UK.
Some benefit staying there.
This perp didn't.
I don't remember what happened to the attacker later.
But, I suppose, he was never taken outside again.

JMO

18-Year-Old Sentenced to at Least 15 Years for Throwing Boy Off 10th Floor Balcony at London Museum

Jonty Bravery pleaded guilty to one count attempted murder in December, according to the Crown Prosecution Service

people.com

the victim. Boy, 8, who was thrown off Tate Modern balcony returns to school

another one who slipped through the cracks unfortuantely at the time. we do have institutions here yes. my point was maybe he should have been in one or under strict supervision if deprivation of liberty was not deemed appropriate. also that the classification of him was not correct after school and that mandatory treatment was not enforced. also that his parents should have done more. this seems a catalogue of errors imo but a strong strong aspect is the lack of continuity from child to semi adult ie pre 16 to after 16.

 

[Dotta]

18-Year-Old Sentenced to at Least 15 Years for Throwing Boy Off 10th Floor Balcony at London Museum

Jonty Bravery pleaded guilty to one count attempted murder in December, according to the Crown Prosecution Service

people.com

the victim. Boy, 8, who was thrown off Tate Modern balcony returns to school

another one who slipped through the cracks unfortuantely at the time. we do have institutions here yes. my point was maybe he should have been in one or under strict supervision if deprivation of liberty was not deemed appropriate. also that the classification of him was not correct after school and that mandatory treatment was not enforced. also that his parents should have done more. this seems a catalogue of errors imo but a strong strong aspect is the lack of continuity from child to semi adult ie pre 16 to after 16.

Thanks for finding the source!

 

[Dotta]

One more thing to add...

(Sorry, I promised myself to restrain my posting hehe
but this case really shook me up and I cannot help myself)

We must remember that the family was in difficult/specific position being immigrants.

I'm mainly referring to Parents of AR.

I have never been in this position,
but I guess
living in a foreign land (parents)
makes one try not to attract attention of authorities, especially Police.
Often, being a foreigner makes a person cautious, some feel vulnerable.
Language barrier also plays a role.
And cultural differences.

When ultimately helpless,
parents tried to seek help, called LE,
but I suppose
they naively thought they could manage the unbalanced son by letting him stay at home, engage in his eccentric (in their view) interests
and generally appease him fearing his outbursts
(everybody could see him in action in Court).

He probably was spending all days in his room/living room with a laptop or doing some "experiments".
(Who in their right mind would guess the minor boy was producing poison?)

I bet he was whining about bullying
so they believed the knife was a defence - "just in case..."

I also think
that when he was not bothered by them,
he was quiet and everything seemed OK.
Problems started when they questioned him.
Or tried to introduce some discipline.

Letting him stay at home as a recluse was a terrible mistake.
He was falling into madness IMO.
Isolation destroys psyche.

They should have forced him to attend school, meet peers, meet MH specialists and face reality.
Leave his "comfort zone".
And school authorities also should have done this.

Unfortunately,
appeasement brings tragic results

JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

to prove my point.

"His obsession with mass murder was known about. THE RISK HE POSED WAS CLEAR.

Yet there was nothing to stop him going to a dance class, murdering Alice da Silva Aguiar, nine, Bebe King, six, and Elsie Dot Stancombe, seven, and attempting to murder many more."

"In extreme cases, they can apply for a secure order for a child in which a child is placed in secure accommodation," Dr Murphy explained, but he said they are "very difficult to obtain, partly because it's so costly, partly because it's so draconian".

heres the big one

"'They often don't fit into any particular box'
Finding the cracks in a system that failed will be the task of the public inquiry."
by that he means its a classification error and its a doctor in the services who is saying that.

Southport killer was known to services that failed - as former social worker warns over 'holes in the system'

Dr Ciaran Murphy tells Sky News that services designed to protect children are now facing more cases where children are themselves the risk.

news.sky.com

to me the terrorism aspect is almost irrelevant to what we are trying to prevent. whats terrorism without VIOLENCE? belief and thats it. so what in peoples heads is the factor worthy of acting on? quite obviously its capacity for violence and it is the potential of violence that needs to be acted on. they knew he wanted to use the knife at alder hey so why was this not used as a way to escalate and deprive him of liberty? it should have been.

 

[Skigh]

Pictured:Killer Axel Rudakubana six years before Southport rampage

EXCL: Photographs have emerged of Axel Rudakubana six years before he launched a vicious and frenzied attack in Southport that left three young girls dead and ten injured last July.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This week the Mail spoke to contemporaries of Rudakubana. They say they are 'shocked' by the sheer depravity of his acts but also paint a picture of a boy whose alarming behaviour caused other children to fear him from the start of secondary school.

While Rudakubana's lawyer, Stan Reiz KC, told the court on Thursday: 'Something changed in him when he reached the age of 13', we can reveal there were earlier warning signs.

According to a former pupil called Jamie, who studied at Range High School in the nearby town of Formby at the same time as Rudakubana: 'He was always trouble.'

 

[Sweeper2000]

belmarsh. this is a cat a prison. its also one where the prisoners mostly lifers will not be drugged up. good. if he can hear them, they will make his life extremely difficult while he is there and yes they will literally tear him up if possible.

Southport killer Axel Rudakubana begins life sentence in Britain's toughest jail Belmarsh - home to some of nation's most infamous inmates and where prisoners will be queuing up to attack him​

One said: 'People on life sentences who have kids pride themselves on hurting people like this. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he gets everything that’s coming to him.'

Another wrote: 'I'm sure they'll give him an express ride to hell'.

A third said that Sara Sharif's father, who was attacked with the lid of a tin of tuna, was a sign of what could happen to Rudakubana.

Southport killer Axel Rudakubana begins life sentence in Belmarsh

Murderer Axel Rudakubana has begun a sentence stretching 52 years inside the notorious Belmarsh prison in south-east London - and insiders say there is already a price on his head.

www.dailymail.co.uk

a bit sensationalist but we can hope.

 

[Skigh]

Police locked in long US legal process to access Southport killer’s online history

Investigators fear it could be years before they get Axel Rudakubana’s search data which could hold vital clues

www.theguardian.com

The family of one girl who was stabbed three times by Rudakubana said on Friday it was “undeniable that there remain more questions which need answering about how we got to this point”.

They added: “We hope that these will be answered in due course. For our daughter, and everyone else who was there that day, it is the least that they deserve.”

Merseyside police obtained more than 160,000 images, videos and other documents from Rudakubana’s devices showing a dark obsession with extreme violence and genocide.

Pye said detectives had recovered “absolutely nothing whatsoever” from the Google Chrome and Microsoft Bing searches he had made on an HP laptop, which he deleted before taking a taxi to Hart Space to carry out the atrocity.

After wiping the data, Rudakubana made one more search three minutes later when he looked up a video on X of the terrorist stabbing ofEmmanuel in a Sydney church just two months earlier.

Pye said obtaining the data was taking longer because police were having to submit an application in the US – and because the Southport attack is not being treated as terrorism or serious organised crime, for which there is a quicker process.

The government knew that it would be much quicker and easier to gain access to all his computer activities of they said it was a terrorist attack. Finding the documents he down loaded and ricin would initially be enough to do that.

It seems to me that the government is reluctant to investigate what he was up to and who he might have been in contact with on the internet.

I very much hope the American government will use their influence to speed up releasing information from Google and other tech companies.

How much will still be hidden from the public remains to be seen.

 

[sportstergirl]

Axel will be realising he's Billy No Mates, he's going to be inside forever, a marked man, always looking over his shoulder. He'll never have a girlfriend, go fishing, attend a sporting event or music festival, ride a motorcycle or drive a car, have pets, or other things normal teenagers do. His parents & brother appear to have disowned him, no sign of them at the trial. He's also blown their lives up as well as his own.
What turned him into a monster? How does someone so young become so depraved & evil? I've no doubt "lessons will be learned", until it happens again. I can't see him ever being rehabilitated or released, he will remain a danger to others for the rest of his life.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Ridiculous, IMO. Puts a burden on the poor delivery driver who is being evaluated on how many deliveries they make in a day. And why should ID be required to buy a kitchen knife anyway? The fault lies in a lackluster system of justice and it's failure to hold criminals accountable. He had been caught with knives before with no significant consequences. JMO

You have to be 18 to purchase anything with a blade in the UK. The exception being cartridge razors.

It's yet another pointless restriction so that politicians can say that they're "doing something". Has zero effect on crime.

 

[Dotta]

"Southport child killer Axel Rudakubana
received the second-longest life sentence in English history
and the government does not ever want to see him released,
Downing Street has said.

Number 10 spokesperson said
the ministers
'share the public's disgust at [Rudakubana's] barbaric crimes'
but imposing a whole life order (WLO)
was not possible because of international law.

The spokesman did not name which acts the government was bound by,
but Article 37 of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child states
that people under 18
should not be imprisoned for life
with no chance of ever being released."

Southport stabbings: Axel Rudakubana received second longest sentence in history and UN prevents harsher punishment, says Downing Street

A Number 10 spokesperson said the government did not want the 18-year-old to ever be released but international law prevented teenagers from receiving whole life orders.

news.sky.com

 

[Skigh]

New claim emerges on how Axel Rudakubana was able to kill in Southport

Despite multiple referrals to the government's counterterrorism programme, Prevent, Rudakubana's growing obsession with mass violence was not appropriately addressed.

www.dailymail.co.uk

A source familiar with the review told the Sunday Times: 'He was constantly trying to speak to his teachers about world events.

'He was looking at news articles about mass shootings during IT class and trying to speak to his teacher about it. It was odd behaviour for a child so young.

'The counterterrorism officers decided he had an interest in news and current affairs, but was not in danger of being radicalised.'

Despite the fact that officers had received information about his interests in the London Bridge attack, the IRA, MI5 and the Middle East, Radakubana's case was closed by Prevent officers in 2019.

 

[sportstergirl]

International law prevents teenagers from whole life sentences? I'm sure I've seen American teenagers given life without parole, many of them younger than AR & having committed single murders

 

[Legally Bland]

International law prevents teenagers from whole life sentences? I'm sure I've seen American teenagers given life without parole, many of them younger than AR & having committed single murders

I know it's Wikipedia, but it has links:

The United States has signed the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC); however, it remains the only United Nations member state to have not ratified it after Somalia ratified it in 2015.[1]

U.S. ratification of the Convention on the Rights of the Child - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Marantz4250b]

International law prevents teenagers from whole life sentences? I'm sure I've seen American teenagers given life without parole, many of them younger than AR & having committed single murders

I'm not sure that that's correct as the judge I think said in this case that had he been nine days older (18) he'd be handing down a WLO.

The whole discussion as to whether people under 18 can be given WLO's is just politicians bumping their gums trying to look good. It's an essentially irrelevant point because this guy has been given what amounts to one in every meaningful sense - a 52 year minimum is a WLO for all practical purposes.

 

[Skigh]

I'm not sure that that's correct as the judge I think said in this case that had he been nine days older (18) he'd be handing down a WLO.

The whole discussion as to whether people under 18 can be given WLO's is just politicians bumping their gums trying to look good. It's an essentially irrelevant point because this guy has been given what amounts to one in every meaningful sense - a 52 year minimum is a WLO for all practical purposes.

I agree the government are trying to blame every one else they can to deflect the public 's attention and way from their own short fallings and cover ups.
As well as Amazon,they are now adding in other big tech companies to their list of people to blame.
This is probably because of the latest news about the lack of information they still have about searches done by AR on his various devices .I

Tech giants are 'failing to act' and risk causing a 'second Southport'

Yvette Cooper voiced concerns that the extreme videos watched by the killer could lead to a 'second Southport' warning that social media firms were 'failing to act'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“The impact will be felt forever by those families, and it’s right that there’s now a public inquiry to establish what on earth went wrong.”

She added: “The man was referred three times to Prevent, he’d been found carrying a knife on multiple occasions, and he’d attacked a boy he was at school with, and yet he was able to slip through the system.

Reeves says ‘no stone should be left unturned’ in Southport public inquiry

Chancellor tells Sky News social media companies have a moral duty to take down violent and harmful content as she says lessons need to be learned.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[Dotta]

AR reminds me of Uvalde school shooter.

"A year before the Uvalde school massacre,
the gunman had already earned the nickname 'school shooter'
— a running joke among those he played online games with.

Those details are part of an interim report by the House committee investigating the incident,
which points to a trail of missed signs leading to one of the worst mass shootings in Texas —
one that was months in the making."

It seems to me
that if you read about one such perp,
you read about them all.

A year before Uvalde shooting, gunman had threatened women, carried around a dead cat and been nicknamed “school shooter”

Identified as at-risk, he never received special education services and ultimately flunked out, according to a Texas House committee report.

www.texastribune.org

 

[Sweeper2000]

I'm actually guessing this might come down to the youth court which gave him his referral order. If they were not informed of his involvement with the services and hid history of obsession with violence they ere not given a clear picture of him. He definitely needed a supervision order and mandatory therapy. Surprising they were not informed considering this.

"The court was told he had no obvious evidence of mental health disorder which required diversion to hospital. His mother, father and older brother were co-operating with police and had provided witness statements."

Axel Rudakubana was 'excluded from school after violent hockey stick incident'

Teachers were concerned about Rudakubana’s behaviour and his violence towards others, it is understood

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

Yeh seems that way and as I said no continuity in supervision. Really surprised no-one at prevent made a bigger effort to secure him. He displayed a tendency towards violence early on. That's enough to secure him.