GUILTY UK- Major incident declared in Southport after multiple stabbings, 29 July 2024

[Skigh]

Its easy to put in a false date of birth on amazon or make an account in your parents name with a different email.

Presumably they would also need access to bank card details,which would show up on the adults bank statements.

 

[Sarahlou]

Presumably they would also need access to bank card details,which would show up on the adults bank statements.

He could have had his own debit card at 17

 

[Dotta]

How did AR get money for all these things he collected in his bedroom/living room?
Crossbow/arrows, countless packages with Amazon logo?

Pocket money?

Must be,
as he was neither a student nor a worker,
but a recluse at home producing poison.

Amazon delivered Southport killer's £1.70 knife 'to one his parents'

The driver who delivered the blade recorded that the package was given to someone who was visibly over the age of 25 at the then 17-year-old's £130,000 Merseyside home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Sarahlou]

How did AR get money for all these things he collected in his bedroom/living room?
Crossbow/arrows, countless packages with Amazon logo?
Pocket money?

He's autistic so he could have claimed PIP (a type of benefit) I don't know if his needs would qualify for that or not but I know people do get awarded it for that.

 

[bringmeacupoft]

Southport killer Axel Rudakubana had ricin materials sent to neighbour

Messages seen by the BBC confirm the teenage killer's father knew about the unexplained deliveries.

www.bbc.co.uk

Southport killer had ricin materials sent to neighbour​

 

[Dotta]

He's autistic so he could have claimed PIP (a type of benefit) I don't know if his needs would qualify for that or not but I know people do get awarded it for that.

I see.

One would think this PIP money should be spend wisely:
job training for disabled person or some therapies helping to get acclimatized in society.

Not producing bio weapons and creating an arsenal of other weapons.

I give up!!!

JMO
SMH

 

[QB2022]

Presumably they would also need access to bank card details,which would show up on the adults bank statements.

You can have your own debit card well before 18

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

Southport killer Axel Rudakubana had ricin materials sent to neighbour

Messages seen by the BBC confirm the teenage killer's father knew about the unexplained deliveries.

www.bbc.co.uk

Southport killer had ricin materials sent to neighbour​

That shows IMO a level of cunning that has nothing to do with mental health issues or autism. Just being devious. JMO

 

[Skigh]

From the BBC article posted above:

WhatsApp messages seen by the BBC reveal how Southport killer Axel Rudakubana had packages sent to a neighbour's home - one of which contained ingredients to make ricin.

The messages also reveal that his father Alphonse was aware of the deliveries and apologised for them.

The BBC has also established that Rudakubana's parents did not alert local police to the fact the teenager attempted to travel to his former school a week before the Southport attack, where prosecutors now believe he intended to carry out a mass killing.

Details of both incidents come amid ongoing investigations into why red flags that the teenager was planning to kill went unheeded.

The messages seen by the BBC, which are from January 2022, suggest the neighbour believed the parcels which unexpectedly arrived at their home were for Axel Rudakabana. Neighbours now believe the Southport killer was using separate addresses as a decoy.

It is not known whether his father knew what was contained in the packages.


During a briefing earlier this week, investigators were asked whether they were satisfied his parents had secured the knives inside the home. The officers would not be drawn on that but did say that when the house was searched, the weapons stored under the teenager's bed which included a machete were clearly visible.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think axel just bypassed the verification or used his parents accounts. they might not check it or it just gets blended in amomgst many amazon packages. whoever took it from the driver and im sure its one of his parents probably didnt check to see what it was. looks that way to me especially as he had many weapons presumably all bought from amazon. he probably had the ricin sent to neighbours as a way of avoiding suspicions.

this stuff coming out recently is a good example of just how inadequate our mh services are. he was treated at alder hey after the school incident and they knew he meant to use the knife he was caught with. yet he still slipped through the cracks even when there is a big flashing red light there.

Southport killer had NHS mental health care for four years, trust says

Axel Rudakubana was given a life sentence with a minimum term of 52 years for murdering three young girls in Southport on July 29 last year.

www.standard.co.uk

Google News

Comprehensive, up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

this is alder hey as well. I dont know about the level of mh services they have but if they are as good at that as general childrens services then its one of the best if not the best. that article says he just stopped attending, thats a big big red light and i believe at this point attendance should be mandatory in such circumstances, the same way it should have been in kyle cliffords. they should absolutely be made to attend otherwise deprivation of liberty should be enforced absolutely and it 100% should be seen as a public health issue which then does mean it is part of law and has to be enforced. a part of the duty to prevent crime and this stuff is glaringly obvious that it will indeed become a crime. he showed no decline in violent tendencies. this is ridiculous absolutely ridiculous. its obvious especially for women and girls who we still lose at an alarming rate. oh jeez i just remembered its the same trust that treated those little people for the wounds inflicted. i wonder how that would feel? id feel like a total and dismal failure however i remain of the mind that maybe their hands were tied. they couldnt do anything maybe. there are too many failures in the system and it seems to be in identification and enforcement and proper multidisciplinary communication.

ive been thinking about going into this industry and im almost certain at this point i have a mind for it. ill give it a go i think.

 

[Tealgrove]

He is cunning, manipulative and wily.

He is evil.

He will annoy others in prison so much that I can’t see him making it out alive. The inmates will deal with him.

His life will be hell and I’m ok with that.

Red Flags everywhere and yet he was allowed to kill 3 little girls just to appease his desires. Makes me ill. FYI , he doesn’t know what “ill” is u less he walks in the shoes of the these parents.

He sickens me.

 

[Sweeper2000]

That shows IMO a level of cunning that has nothing to do with mental health issues or autism. Just being devious. JMO

violent intent is actually seen as a mh issue. prior to any act committed. many of the horror stories you hear involving violence actually do relate to mh issues. lots and lots of killings are committed by people suffering from mh issues who stop taking their meds or self medicate with street drugs. too often family as well. like lots of them. then they go off the rails and do horrible things.

I myself would bring the kyle clifford case under that umbrella even though he is not seemingly suffering from any mh issues. any case where we see controlling behaviours should be treated under the same act and as a mh issue. otherwise it doesnt get logged as worthy of treatment. would save lots and lots of pain and anguish and prevent so much loss to all involved. its so frighteningly common thats its obviously worth putting it in the system and encasing it within law.

 

[Sweeper2000]

He is cunning, manipulative and wily.

He is evil.

He will annoy others in prison so much that I can’t see him making it out alive. The inmates will deal with him.

His life will be hell and I’m ok with that.

Red Flags everywhere and yet he was allowed to kill 3 little girls just to appease his desires. Makes me ill. FYI , he doesn’t know what “ill” is u less he walks in the shoes of the these parents.

He sickens me.

the system knows he will be a target. they intend to move him from place to place to prevent anything happening.

 

[Dotta]

I guess, and it is Only My Opinion,
that his parents were helpless, overwhelmed and terrorized by their son.

The older he got,
the more insane and menacing he became.

He attacked his own father once,
when dad tried to cut AR off the Internet.

To be fair to parents,
they tried to get help.
They did.
They called Police to home, they asked for help.

But if institutions couldn't control him,
the parents could do less.

He had his room, but seemed to grab a living room too (and it resembled a pigsty with all those boxes).

This is terrible.
I still think that he should have been put in some correctional facility for troubled youths after a hockey stick attack at school.

But who decides about it in the UK?
In my country it is the task of Family Court.
It deals with violent/troubled minors and parents who cannot cope.

Because it is obvious to me that his parents didn't cope with him,
they were helpless and seemed terrorized by this demon.

JMO

 

[astheworldfallsdown]

He is cunning, manipulative and wily.

He is evil.

He will annoy others in prison so much that I can’t see him making it out alive. The inmates will deal with him.

His life will be hell and I’m ok with that.

Red Flags everywhere and yet he was allowed to kill 3 little girls just to appease his desires. Makes me ill. FYI , he doesn’t know what “ill” is u less he walks in the shoes of the these parents.

He sickens me.

He is cunning, manipulative and wily.

This.
He didn't just grab the nearest knife/object and lash out at who was nearest to him. He planned it meticulously. He had his parcels sent to another address to hide what he was up to. Pure evil. JMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

I guess, and it is Only My Opinion,
that his parents were helpless, overwhelmed and terrorized by their son.

The older he got, the more insane and menacing he became.

He attacked his own father once,
when dad tried to cut AR off the Internet.

To be fair to parents,
they tried to get help.
They did.
They called Police to home, they asked for help.

But if institutions couldn't control him,
the parents could do less.

He had his room, but seemed to grab a living room too (and it resembled a pigsty with all those boxes).

This is terrible.
I still think that he should have been put in some correctional facility for troubled youths after a hockey stick attack at school.

But who decides about it in the UK?
In my country it is the task of Family Court.
It deals with violent/troubled minors and parents who cannot cope.

Because it is obvious to me that his parents didn't cope with him,
they were helpless and seemed terrorized by this demon.

JMO

i disagree. if his father knew he had been under mh treatment for years he should have been checking the deliveries. he also should have contacted more immediate services after the school problem with the knife. he was 100% aware his son was a danger, had been in treatment and should have stepped in. it looks to me like this indiivudal ie axel should have been under an order and supervision. the level of violence he had shown dictated this was a sensible course of action. tequnically he could have been outside the family home living alone.

 

[Skigh]

i disagree. if his father knew he had been under mh treatment for years he should have been checking the deliveries. he also should have contacted more immediate services after the school problem with the knife. he was 100% aware his son was a danger, had been in treatment and should have stepped in. it looks to me like this indiivudal ie axel should have been under an order and supervision. the level of violence he had shown dictated this was a sensible course of action. tequnically he could have been outside the family home living alone.

Totally agree that his father should have been monitoring what was in the boxes delivered by Amazon.
The machete under his bed was clearly visible.

It is very easy to. blame outside agencies ,but the parents should also be held responsible for allowing their son to order and have illicit items in the house.

 

[Dotta]

i disagree. if his father knew he had been under mh treatment for years he should have been checking the deliveries. he also should have contacted more immediate services after the school problem with the knife. he was 100% aware his son was a danger, had been in treatment and should have stepped in. it looks to me like this indiivudal ie axel should have been under an order and supervision. the level of violence he had shown dictated this was a sensible course of action. tequnically he could have been outside the family home living alone.

But AR was caught with a knife in a bus.
Authorities knew about his excesses at school.
He was removed from it after all.
He didn't attend another school he was sent to.
The boy was under "supervision" of some state agencies.
Family asked Police for help.
There was a Social worker coming to the house, so afraid that this worker was accompanied by Police Officer.
I guess it is Police's task to decide what to do with a violent person.

Terrible case.

 

[Sweeper2000]

But AR was caught with a knife in a bus.
Authorities knew about his excesses at school.
He was removed from it after all.
He didn't attend another school he was sent to.
The boy was under "supervision" of some state agencies.
Family asked Police for help.
There was a Social worker coming to the house, so afraid that this person was accompanied by Police Officer.
I guess it is Police's task to decide what to do with a violent person."

yeh this is almost typical and i call it a classification error. he at school was a "child" and after 16 not so much and is looked at differently in the eyes of the law. after 16 he doesnt get the same level of provisioning and the classification changes. he seems to followed a upward trajectory with an inclination towwards violence ending in southport. he actually wasnt under supervision either with the services he was using actually being voluntary. the stuff at school might not have actually warranted a order or enforced supervision either somewhat ordinary behaviour and thus not worthy of enforcement. no actual police involvement or convictions prior to 16 thus no behavioural supervision would be classed maybe as "kids being kids". lots of knives around these days trust me. this to me reeks of failure of enforcement and supervision. he was not deemed a real threat either at alder hey otherwise he would have been under an order. i dont know how he didnt get a conviction after the hockey stick event ? after 16 right ? if it is it is 100% a failure in supervision. he should have been under an order and his parents should have been checking him and making sure he wasnt planning anything like this or the ricin. his parents are involved here 100% it maybe that they were told whats what but didnt do it and it seems that way doesnt it? were told "hide the knives" but didnt obviously. dismal failure all round.

just seen the hockey stick event. this would be considered somewhat normal and if its 1 event they kmight just expel him with no further action taken. he then goes somewhere else who dont know about it and is given a fresh slate. yeh just seen his history prior to age 16. it is a classification error. there was no enforcement and no order and he was given a ten month referral order which means nothing after the age of 16.

 

[Dotta]

yeh this is almost typical and i call it a classification error. he at school was a "child" and after 16 not so much and is looked at differently in the eyes of the law. after 16 he doesnt get the same level of provisioning and the classification changes. he seems to followed a upward trajectory with an inclination towwards violence ending in southport. he actually wasnt under supervision either with the services he was using actually being voluntary. the stuff at school might not have actually warranted a order or enforced supervision either somewhat ordinary behaviour and thus not worthy of enforcement. no actual police involvement or convictions prior to 16 thus no behavioural supervision would be classed maybe as "kids being kids". lots of knives around these days trust me. this to me reeks of failure of enforcement and supervision. he was not deemed a real threat either at alder hey otherwise he would have been under an order. i dont know how he didnt get a conviction after the hockey stick event ? after 16 right ? if it is it is 100% a failure in supervision. he should have been under an order and his parents should have been checking him and making sure he wasnt planning anything like this or the ricin. his parents are involved here 100% it maybe that they were told whats what but didnt do it and it seems that way doesnt it? were told "hide the knives" but didnt obviously. dismal failure all round.

just seen the hockey stick event. this would be considered somewhat normal and if its 1 event they kmight just expel him with no further action taken. he then goes somewhere else who dont know about it and is given a fresh slate. yeh just seen his history prior to age 16. it is a classification error. there was no enforcement and no order and he was given a ten month referral order which means nothing after the age of 16.

I remember a case with a thread on WS,
about a little French boy on a trip to London
who was pushed from a kind of sightseeing terrace many floors high in a Museum.

The boy survived thank Goodness!

The perp was a person with MH issues and very violent.
He was staying in a kind of facility and was deemed to be fit to go with a group to London on a sightseeing tour too.

He escaped his group and guardians and suddenly attacked the boy.

My point is,
there are institutions which deal with troubled youths in the UK.
Some benefit staying there.
This perp didn't.
I don't remember what happened to the attacker later.
But, I suppose, he was never taken outside again.

JMO