UK - Nurse Lucy Letby Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #17

[WaxLyrical]

No the black bin bag was found on her second arrest. So she'd obviously hidden the notes found at her parents' house sufficiently well before her first arrest for them not to be found the first time they searched.

Letby was re-arrested at her parents’ home on June 10, 2019 and November 11, 2020, the court heard.

A search of the garage at the Westbourne Road property on June 10 revealed another handwritten note found in a black bin bag.

Phrases on that note included “killing me softly”, “broken hearted” and “no-one will ever know what happened or why”.

Six pages of medical notes of children unrelated to the trial were found at her parents’ home on the same date.

What police saw inside Lucy Letby's Chester home at time of 2018 arrest

It’s astonishing that there was still paperwork to be found at the second arrest. Surely after arrest number one you’d be like “ok, probably best for me to get rid of everything that shouldn’t be here”. Innocent or guilty, it’s just unbelievable that there was still stuff lying about.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It’s astonishing that there was still paperwork to be found at the second arrest. Surely after arrest number one you’d be like “ok, probably best for me to get rid of everything that shouldn’t be here”. Innocent or guilty, it’s just unbelievable that there was still stuff lying about.

Personally, I'm somewhat astonished that it wasn't found first time round!

 

[magikarpmagikarp]

The thing that I find concerning; is even “if” she did indeed go on a fact finding mission, it is hugely concerning a healthcare professional would take it upon themselves to print all these documents out of confidential patient information (if that’s what she indeed did) and have them in her possession she she had.

I agree. Whether she took it home contemporaneously (which, as @Tortoise pointed out, is what her barrister says she was doing) or she took it home after the fact to attempt to defend herself, the degree and amount of confidential paperwork in her home absolutely demonstrates poor judgement and difficulty regulating her behavior. Poor judgment or difficulty regulating one's behavior doesn't equal being guilty of murder, but people who commit murder strike me as more likely to not have good judgment or a strong ability to regulate their own behavior. JMO

 

[DinerMite]

I wonder if they will release images of the other notes, they mentioned one where she questions herself and says maybe she killed them, maybe it is down to her?

I haven't seen this on the notes yet unless it was a reporting error

 

[Nali87]

Yeah, think I used almost identical words the other day.

Whether she's guilty or not is almost beside the point. Those notes were written by someone who is deeply ill, in my totally non-expert opinion!

To be honest, if I were innocent and accused of murdering babies, I’d be writing some pretty unhinged notes too! Still, not saying she is, but I can imagine being out of my mind with worry if I was innocent and dealing with this.

 

[Sundial]

I agree. Whether she took it home contemporaneously (which, as @Tortoise pointed out, is what her barrister says she was doing) or she took it home after the fact to attempt to defend herself, the degree and amount of confidential paperwork in her home absolutely demonstrates poor judgement and difficulty regulating her behavior. Poor judgment or difficulty regulating one's behavior doesn't equal being guilty of murder, but people who commit murder strike me as more likely to not have good judgment or a strong ability to regulate their own behavior. JMO

Exactly.
It’s this, the paperwork alone is just so damming, and her unusual (strange) behaviour with grieving parents, baby baths, the doctor who was also astonished by her “not leaving here alive” comments.
Discussing patients (and parents in lacy dresses etc), visiting outside of work hours, medical diagnoses etc, having a bit of a wobble not allowed to be in a certain room “I know how I feel/people should respect that”, then that “injury” (if it even was) and sort of meltdown in A&E/fainted.

Her professional behaviour, (even if innocent) is very worrying and it is as you say very much appears of someone who can’t regulate their emotional behaviour. This seems to consequently impact her duty of care. First and foremost confidentiality; how many times have we seen that having been broken in evidence and now all this paperwork at her home (not to mention the countless Facebook searches).

Whether guilty or not, it doesn’t matter how she got hold of/kept dozens of patient information, it is not normal.
JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

To be honest, if I were innocent and accused of murdering babies, I’d be writing some pretty unhinged notes too! Still, not saying she is, but I can imagine being out of my mind with worry if I was innocent and dealing with this.

Oh yes, this is sort of my point.

The notes, imo, lean toward a very disturbed mind. Whether that is a state which existed before the alleged crimes or manifested later due to the potential outcome is the real question.

It would be interesting to know whether the prosecution has anything to demonstrate that she was of this frame of mind prior to the allegations.

 

[marynnu]

I'm losing track a bit regarding how much LL did & didn't know about the police investigation. I read that the first arrest took place at around 6-6.30am, which implies the police were aiming at an element of surprise? Maybe!

 

[Anxala]

[redacted] + cons -> Police naming me (obviously no evidence and would have been spoken to but still upsetting)

Quoting my own post as it's just occurred to me that the notes were found at LL's first arrest in July 2018 so the line in the first blue note about police naming her can't be correct as she hadn't been arrested or named when the note was written!

I think the arrow between cons and police may mean "went to" or "going to" and the redacted name may be Doc Choc which would then make the sentence

Doc Choc and the consultants went to the police naming me (obviously no evidence and would have been spoken to but still upsetting)

^ That sounds very feasible. And would certainly account for LL's reaction to DrChoc in court. I'm trying not to feel sorry for LL (still on fence although have to say it's a bit of a shaky fence at this stage) but his transition from very close, caring friend (and more) to her accuser must have been absolutely devastating for her.

 

[Sundial]

I'm losing track a bit regarding how much LL did & didn't know about the police investigation. I read that the first arrest took place at around 6-6.30am, which implies the police were aiming at an element of surprise? Maybe!

At that time if not actively working/off it makes you wonder if she’d even have been dressed/asleep.
Moo

 

[Anxala]

To be honest, if I were innocent and accused of murdering babies, I’d be writing some pretty unhinged notes too! Still, not saying she is, but I can imagine being out of my mind with worry if I was innocent and dealing with this.

Me too, and that's pretty much what those notes say to me, someone very disturbed by what's what's happening to them, someone out of their mind with fear, disbelief, worry and helplessness. I'm not seeing guilt in them. That's not to say she's not guilty, just that these notes do not imo point to guilt.

 

[JosieJo]

JMO some thoughts about the handovers;

There were far too many handovers for these to have been collected after the effect for her own grievance etc plus they were in various places.

Collecting so many handovers is at best "odd"

I do not see them as trophies as there are far too many

Having said that being trophies is not the only possible relevance

Is it possible they were used to "choose" victims?
We have heard how she got upset when not rostered to work in a certain area.

Are they part of some type of obsession that is somehow connected to what she "allegedly" does??

We also do not know if there were documents related to other potential victims..an "attacker" could have been experimenting with minor effects on babies for a long time before the cases at court.

Regarding the diary I do find it damning..but as it was a 2016 diary were the dates marked in the diary the later ones only ?
I could understand she may know the last few cases that were being investigated and she may have put those in the diary.. as at that point (when first going on admin duties) the diary would be her current one.

But if dates were marked throughout the diary including cases early in 2016 that's far more damning...because by the time she found out what cases she was being investigated for the 2016 would not be her current diary

 

[Marantz4250b]

I'm losing track a bit regarding how much LL did & didn't know about the police investigation. I read that the first arrest took place at around 6-6.30am, which implies the police were aiming at an element of surprise? Maybe!

It seems to be a common thing in major investigations as there's a good chance that the person they are arresting will still be half asleep and not in a frame of mind to engage in some sort of seige situation allowing them to destroy evidence.

I guess it also gives best use of daylight hours to search premises - let's remember she was arrested mid-summer on both occasions before her final arrest, both of which involved premises searches.

 

[Marantz4250b]

^ That sounds very feasible. And would certainly account for LL's reaction to DrChoc in court. I'm trying not to feel sorry for LL (still on fence although have to say it's a bit of a shaky fence at this stage) but his transition from very close, caring friend (and more) to her accuser must have been absolutely devastating for her.

He's not her "accuser", though. He is merely recounting the facts as he understands them after being asked by the prosecution.

If he'd refused he'd simply have been ordered to turn up anyway. If he'd refused to answer questions he'd have been held in contempt and banged-up!

From memory, nothing he said is actually any sort of accusation against her. It's simply him giving an account of what occurred.

 

[DinerMite]

He's not her "accusor", though. He is merely recounting the facts as he understands them after being asked by the prosecution.

If he'd refused he'd simply have been ordered to turn up anyway. If he'd refused to answer questions he'd have been held in contempt and banged-up!

From memory, nothing he said is actually any sort of accusation against her. It's simply him giving an account of what occurred.

From LL's point of view he very well could be, the notes of betrayal suggest that.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Oh yes, I totally get that. Just feltbtheb

From LL's point of view he very well could be, the notes of betrayal suggest that.

Oh yes, totally get that. Just felt the need to point out that, in reality, he's not. I'm sure that she'll have been told that by her defence counsel but it must still have been a shock hearing him speak, probably for the first time in years.

 

[Dotta]

Tomorrow the Court might not be sitting again

 

[Anxala]

From LL's point of view he very well could be, the notes of betrayal suggest that.

Yes, thank you, that's what her note (as per @ColourPurple 's transcription) suggests.

 

[Cardgame]

Things I might 'doodle' if I was falsely accused of murdering babies:

- I AM INNOCENT
- HOW COULD THEY THINK I WOULD DO THIS?
- WHO DID DO THIS?
- WHY AREN'T THEY TRYING TO CATCH THE REAL KILLER?

 

[notsure]

Me too, and that's pretty much what those notes say to me, someone very disturbed by what's what's happening to them, someone out of their mind with fear, disbelief, worry and helplessness. I'm not seeing guilt in them. That's not to say she's not guilty, just that these notes do not imo point to guilt.

A lot of people find it therapeutic to write down their anxieties, especially if they can let it all out without fear of anyone else reading it.