UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, Faces 22 Charges - 7 Murder/15 Attempted Murder of Babies #18

[Sweeper2000]

I can only see that amount of handover notes being taken home daily. I would guess the ones preceding 2015 were disposed of.

 

[Sundial]

I agree it's a bit strange.
I find it odd for example that as a potential band 6 she would need to be told where to go and what to do. I work with and around neonatal care but am not privi to band 6 meetings etc but from what I see it's all about the band 6's managing the band 5's and under, have heard them being referred to as the 'linchpins of the unit' by SM. Jmo

Now we know she was actually band 5 I can sort of understand now some of the “bitchiness” and questioning (about her role) going on amongst her colleagues.

Although she might have done the neonatal course, she does actually seem to/try to come across as being band 6 and defiant against her superior. At times is also argumentative/having a strop over the whole room 1 thing. She has admitted in evidence heard recently that she was not getting the emotional support from her colleague she expected and was frustrated about allocation etc.

At times I thought this was actually 2 band 6 nurses having a disagreement over the way the shift is being led or allocation etc when it turns out that she’s a band 5 seemingly irritated/going against the more senior nurses. Yet she’s then kind of arrogant at times towards others in that team:
Eg; maybe i was more experienced/able to spot something she couldn’t- or the nurses nurse with 10 odd years of experience, the “new girl” Sophie, or Mel won’t discuss it (being in room 1) or the student following her etc.
Sure some of this can be perfectly normal, innocent work stressors but I feel she can be somewhat demeaning of her colleagues at times and yet she seems to always need validation of her own worth from them.

All very bizarre.
JMO

 

[Sundial]

I can only see that amount of handover notes being taken home daily. I would guess the ones preceding 2015 were disposed of.

But equally, regardless of what band or training she had; it isn’t normal and she would know that. It’s frighteningly worrying.
In her police interview she talks about AE and how they are told and taught during her training not to have air in lines/injections; and yet one of the most fundamental points of training is patient confidentiality and she has hoards of paperwork related to this exact thing in her possession.
Now whether she is a hoarder or not, she’s an educated, trained (healthcare) professional who stated “maybe I could spot something the other nurse couldn’t” (or whatever it was); she would then also have known this is a huge, big red no-no. Why would you keep them for?? There is no purpose to have them like this, and no business of hers in doing so and not properly disposing of them as she should. She would have known that.
MOO

 

[esther43]

Now we know she was actually band 5 I can sort of understand now some of the “bitchiness” and questioning (about her role) going on amongst her colleagues.

Although she might have done the neonatal course, she does actually seem to/try to come across as being band 6 and defiant against her superior. At times is also argumentative/having a strop over the whole room 1 thing. She has admitted in evidence heard recently that she was not getting the emotional support from her colleague she expected and was frustrated about allocation etc.

At times I thought this was actually 2 band 6 nurses having a disagreement over the way the shift is being led or allocation etc when it turns out that she’s a band 5 seemingly irritated/going against the more senior nurses. Yet she’s then kind of arrogant at times towards others in that team:
Eg; maybe i was more experienced/able to spot something she couldn’t- or the nurses nurse with 10 odd years of experience, the “new girl” Sophie, or Mel won’t discuss it (being in room 1) or the student following her etc.
Sure some of this can be perfectly normal, innocent work stressors but I feel she can be somewhat demeaning of her colleagues at times and yet she seems to always need validation of her own worth from them.

All very bizarre.
JMO

Has it actually been confirmed that she was indeed a band 5? If so then can see what you're saying there.

 

[Sundial]

What I've found interesting about the trial is unusual courses that the babies have taken so far. For me, some of the cases are indisputable foul play and not just the insulin ones.
That said I am open to hearing other possible explanations regarding who is responsible. I am now so curious to hear about how and when 257 handover sheets made their way into LLs home.
If Dr choc or JJK bought them would that make anybody think differently about this case?

If dr choc or JJK took them to her home (if I’m reading your post correctly?) do you mean?
I don’t think I would feel any differently, personally. It wasn’t just at her home, her parents address too. It’s very difficult to rationalise ‘why’ they are there in the first place tbh. Even if she was a hoarder, personally I feel there is no excuse for this extravagant amount of confidential patient information in her possession.
JMO

 

[esther43]

But equally, regardless of what band or training she had; it isn’t normal and she would know that. It’s frighteningly worrying.
In her police interview she talks about AE and how they are told and taught during her training not to have air in lines/injections; and yet one of the most fundamental points of training is patient confidentiality and she has hoards of paperwork related to this exact thing in her possession.
Now whether she is a hoarder or not, she’s an educated, trained (healthcare) professional who stated “maybe I could spot something the other nurse couldn’t” (or whatever it was); she would then also have known this is a huge, big red no-no. Why would you keep them for?? There is no purpose to have them like this, and no business of hers in doing so and not properly disposing of them as she should. She would have known that.
MOO

It will be so interesting to hear explanation for handover sheets. If taken home as she went about her daily business, this would be highly suspicious, I wouldn't accept her being a hoarder as an apt explanation. No way.

 

[Sundial]

Has it actually been confirmed that she was indeed a band 5? If so then can see what you're saying there.

I think it was josie that posted it a page or 2 back from an article where a colleague actually stated LL was one of 3 band 5 nurses

 

[Sundial]

I thought she was till this week but saw this after posters told me she was a 5

"She said: "At the time we were talking about we had massive staffing issues where people were coming in and doing extra shifts.
"It was mainly Lucy that did a lot as she was one of only three band five nurses that had done the neonatal course at that time."

Lucy Letby: Murder-accused nurse keen to work overtime, jury told - BBC News

The nurse was "willing and wanting" more shifts at the time she allegedly tried to kill a baby.

www.bbc.co.uk

@esther43 bringing this back into focus re band 5

 

[ColourPurple]

It will be so interesting to hear explanation for handover sheets. If taken home as she went about her daily business, this would be highly suspicious, I wouldn't accept her being a hoarder as an apt explanation. No way.

The podcast said her handwritten notes were written on the back of them, so yes it seems they were her actual handover sheets and instead of disposing of them at the end of a shift she took them home. Whilst living in hospital accomodation, and when she moved into her new home.

The only babies in this case that she didnt have handover sheets for were A,C and D the first three deaths.

 

[Sundial]

It will be so interesting to hear explanation for handover sheets. If taken home as she went about her daily business, this would be highly suspicious, I wouldn't accept her being a hoarder as an apt explanation. No way.

Agreed. Absolutely.

 

[ColourPurple]

I think it was josie that posted it a page or 2 back from an article where a colleague actually stated LL was one of 3 band 5 nurses

And Myers mentioned it recently. he said a nurse somebody had seen at one point ( I think near baby Q but could be wrong) couldnt have been LL as she was band five and wore a different colour uniform to the nurse seen.

 

[Sundial]

The podcast said her handwritten notes were written on the back of them, so yes it seems they were her actual handover sheets and instead of disposing of them at the end of a shift she took them home. Whilst living in hospital accomodation, and when she moved into her new home.

The only babies in this case that she didnt have handover sheets for were A,C and D the first three deaths.

What I don’t understand, is how some
of those sheets ended up at her parents address. If she’s taken them home when in hospital accommodation, and when she moved to her new address- how are they also at her parents, unless she’s moved them?

I read it that she left home to go to university, would have been in hospital accommodation and then her new house. Unless she’s moved those papers back to her parents when she was on bail? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[ColourPurple]

What I don’t understand, is how some
of those sheets ended up at her parents address. If she’s taken them home when in hospital accommodation, and when she moved to her new address- how are they also at her parents, unless she’s moved them?

I read it that she left home to go to university, would have been in hospital accommodation and then her new house. Unless she’s moved those papers back to her parents when she was on bail? Anyone have any ideas?

Can't rememberr how many were found at her parents to see whether it could be just the odd one every now and then, if she went straight to visit her parents after finishing her shift. Or whether she took a batch of them with her when she visited them at Xmas or at other times. Don't ask me why anyone would do that ? reading material? To show her parents? Who knows

 

[Popcorn80]

reading back over some of the police interviews today and thinking of her band. I’m wondering did this all begin over her trying to highlight the issues with staffing on the unit.An Incident form was completed regarding at least one of the unexplained resus attempts. This would be looked into by management, would these episodes of stabilisation go towards experience for promotion? IMO, maybe I’m just looking for a reason other than being just evil!

 

[Dotta]

Now whether she is a hoarder or not, she’s an educated, trained (healthcare) professional who stated “maybe I could spot something the other nurse couldn’t” (or whatever it was); she would then also have known this is a huge, big red no-no. Why would you keep them for?? There is no purpose to have them like this, and no business of hers in doing so and not properly disposing of them as she should. She would have known that.
MOO

Especially when having a shredder in her room.

 

[Sundial]

reading back over some of the police interviews today and thinking of her band. I’m wondering did this all begin over her trying to highlight the issues with staffing on the unit.An Incident form was completed regarding at least one of the unexplained resus attempts. This would be looked into by management, would these episodes of stabilisation go towards experience for promotion? IMO, maybe I’m just looking for a reason other than being just evil!

I think this might have been towards the last of the babies listed in the charges (between the triplets and baby Q), and I believe as was heard in evidence she only submitted it the following day after the consultants (I think) submitted a datex report. It may have been dr choc who told her but the day after that report was submitted, she then completed an incident form. Something along those lines, it’s hard to follow, the whole thing is such a bizarre messy nightmare imo.

 

[Sundial]

Especially when having a shredder in her room.

This is another thing that frustrates me. If she was a “hoarder” howcome she could shred her bank statements but not patient confidentiality which she should never even have had like this. It makes nose sense when she had the means to have disposed of them either by disposing appropriately in the proper waste at the hospital, or shredding them as soon as she knew she had bought them home- if by accident.

Confidential bank statements get a shredding but not the confidential patient handovers sheets. The excuse of hoarding does not sit with me at all.
JMO

 

[Becky53]

Can't rememberr how many were found at her parents to see whether it could be just the odd one every now and then, if she went straight to visit her parents after finishing her shift. Or whether she took a batch of them with her when she visited them at Xmas or at other times. Don't ask me why anyone would do that ? reading material? To show her parents? Who knows

The jury was told that in Letby’s spare bedroom police found a paper shredder containing the remnants of “bank or visa bill statements” that had been destroyed.

A box for a paper shredder was recovered from her parent’s house in Hereford, containing five handover sheets from Letby’s hospital shifts.

Lucy Letby: initials of babies noted in diary on dates of alleged attacks, court told

Note saying ‘I don’t know if I killed them. Maybe I did’ also seen in Manchester trial of nurse accused of murdering seven babies

www.theguardian.com

 

[esther43]

Has it actually been confirmed that she was indeed a band 5? If so then can see what you're saying there.

Have just caught up on threads re this!!

 

[Dotta]

Or whether she took a batch of them with her when she visited them at Xmas or at other times. Don't ask me why anyone would do that ? reading material? To show her parents? Who knows

Bedtime stories?