UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #36

[JosieJo]

There must be a lot to be said surely for the the staff working on the shop floor at the time ..very different to reading words on a piece of paper retrospect. These Consultants may not have been "the best of the best" but they knew something was not right over and above the problems the NHS faces across the country.

 

[furbabies]

Of course it's circumstantial, what else would it be? And hou wouldn't notice missing insulin.

because hospitals know how much they use , and how much they have in stock<modsnip>

of course the hospital would notice missing insulin they keep a diary of whats used and when...<modsnip - rude>

 

[JosieJo]

because hospitals know how much they use , and how much they have in stock<modsnip>

of course the hospital would notice missing insulin they keep a diary of whats used and when...<modsnip - rude>

Insulin is not a controlled drug ...no diary's

 

[furbabies]

Insulin is not a controlled drug ...no diary's

yes a record is kept of it

 

[marynnu]

yes a record is kept of it

There is no record kept on wards, certainly not where I worked & at Chester. Nobody would notice a vial had gone missing, but you 'd only need a small amount anyway so in fact the vials would all still be there.

 

[JosieJo]

yes a record is kept of it

No it's not it's just stored in a fridge and used as and when needed

 

[furbabies]

There is no record kept on wards, certainly not where I worked & at Chester. Nobody would notice a vial had gone missing, but you 'd only need a small amount anyway so in fact the vials would all still be there.

its been said a record is kept and as shes been accused of several babies murder i should think they would notice.

 

[JosieJo]

its been said a record is kept and as shes been accused of several babies murder i should think they would notice.

From experience..and from the court witness statements...a record is not kept

Plus amounts are tiny to overdose a baby ..wouldn't even be noticed at all

 

[furbabies]

From experience..and from the court witness statements...a record is not kept

Plus amounts are tiny to overdose a baby ..wouldn't even be noticed at all

court says records are kept

 

[notsure]

More about the insulin poisoning here, and a possible third insulin attack not brought up in court:

Lucy Letby may have harmed more babies in her care, new evidence suggests

BBC Panorama sees documents which show a baby's blood sugar dropped soon after Letby came on duty.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JosieJo]

court says records are kept

It didn't..but if you could provide a link

 

[Sweeper2000]

court says records are kept

think they mean that records are kept of how much insulin was supposed to be on the unit and what insulin was administered officially. if it comes in a 50 ml bottle its too easy to take a drop without anyone noticing. if its in 5 ml vials one can be taken and unofficialy used without suspicion. yes its a controlled drug, does that mean they know if a drop is taken ? no almost certainly not. been trying to find the exact insulin storage method in the news but cant find it.

 

[JosieJo]

think they mean that records are kept of how much insulin was supposed to be on the unit and what insulin was administered officially. if it comes in a 50 ml bottle its too easy to take a drop without anyone noticing. if its in 5 ml vials one can be taken and unofficialy used without suspicion. yes its a controlled drug, does that mean they know if a drop is taken ? no almost certainly not. been trying to find the exact insulin storage method in the news but cant find it.

The only records kept are an "order book" so they know how many vials are ordered.
They are multiple use so nurses just go in and take what is needed ...there are no records made of who takes what

 

[marynnu]

court says records are kept

You just have to accept that nobody would notice any insulin was missing, I think.

 

[joltz]

This new PR campaign by Letbys new barrister is for show. Why didn't they just present their evidence for the CCRC. I don't actually believe there is new evidence.

Some of the alternatives been offered by the so called new experts are laughable. Like baby K. Now they are saying Dr Jayaram didn't know how to do his job and going on about the machine alarm again. Don't they realise the machine has a 1 minute delay. I really don't think these so called experts are familiar at all with he evidence from the trial. I think it would be torn to shreds in a court of law.

And Dr Lee. He has been approached by the defence and then decided to amend a research paper from 1989 so that it is in agreement with them. Its clearly bias.

Not that I think it matters much, because his evidence has already been rejected at appeal. Air embolism wasn't only diagnosed by skin discolouration. They used the unexpected nature of the collapses and lack of response to resus to diagnose it. Those are bonafide symptoms.

I think the tactic is to cause as much confusion as possible, it makes it more difficult to get to the root of the evidence and establish the facts.

They have now dumped the headline reading public and possibly influenced future juries and the CCRC. Nice work.

It doesn't change anything though. Letby is guilty as sin

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Can also consider that insulin was used for another patient and LL pocketed the vial with some remaining rather than disposing.

 

[Cardgame]

I genuinely don’t think anyone can make very safe judgements about her ‘demeanour’ on the stand. What would your demeanour be like on there *if* you were innocent? None of that stuff ever seems remotely convincing to be. I thought psychopaths were supposedly adept at faking how they appear etc. I cannot imagine how I’d be on the stand while being falsely accused of murdering babies. So I wouldn’t put much weight on someone’s performance under that level of pressure personally.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time I would imagine that the whole point of a defendant taking the stand is so that the jury can use their human judgement.

Not saying of course that the judgment can't be wrong, or biased, but in combination with a large amount of evidence, she did not convince the other humans that she was innocent. Nor did she convince me.

I'm a fan of a YouTube show called the Behavior Panel, it talks in great detail about deception and human behavior, guilty vs innocence. There is indeed quite a science and academic study behind it now, I personally don't dismiss it out of hand. It's worth checking out if you are interested in this kind of thing. IMO!

 

[Parker Knoll]

God this is EXHAUSTING.
A 10 month trial, a retrial and two cracks with the COA ??
Two scenarios can exist at the same time, you can have a chaotic understaffed ward and mistakes being made … it’s happening in every hospital up and down the uk AND a nurse murdering babies.
The jury found her guilty on some but not all of the charges. They sat there diligently and listened to all of the evidence, not you and I on the internet and they delivered their verdicts …. twice.
Her new lawyers / team make me cringe inside out. Just file your appeal, stop holding tawdry press conferences in hired rooms and see what the CCRC make of it.
The hysterics think this is a done deal but I don’t see anything in that final “ press conference “ that hasn’t been debunked before and I noted that they missed out key details or perhaps chose to ignore them as it didn’t suit their narrative ?
Maybe I’m not buying what they are selling but they do say the empty vessels make the loudest noise.
JMO.

 

[joltz]

God this is EXHAUSTING.
A 10 month trial, a retrial and two cracks with the COA ??
Two scenarios can exist at the same time, you can have a chaotic understaffed ward and mistakes being made … it’s happening in every hospital up and down the uk AND a nurse murdering babies.
The jury found her guilty on some but not all of the charges. They sat there diligently and listened to all of the evidence, not you and I on the internet and they delivered their verdicts …. twice.
Her new lawyers / team make me cringe inside out. Just file your appeal, stop holding tawdry press conferences in hired rooms and see what the CCRC make of it.
The hysterics think this is a done deal but I don’t see anything in that final “ press conference “ that hasn’t been debunked before and I noted that they missed out key details or perhaps chose to ignore them as it didn’t suit their narrative ?
Maybe I’m not buying what they are selling but they do say the empty vessels make the loudest noise.
JMO.

This is mark McDonalds mo. He is more or less a PR man for serial killers. He tried the same tactics with Ben Geen and he had Gill then claiming hundreds of millions to one probability of Geen being innocent. Letby is his new pet project. I don't think there is actually any new evidence. Looking at the suggestions put forward most of them have either been debunked in court, make no sense or just appear to be anything they can think of that means it wasn't Letby. Its a campaign of misinformation. The problem is that the murkier it gets, it can be difficult to see where the truth lies..
wonder what the likes of the prosecution barristers think. I feel that most of this new apparent bombshell stuff is pretty embarrassing but the general public do not read much beyond the headlines.

 

[Sweeper2000]

way out of line. is paywalled.

Access Restricted