UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #36

[Dotta]

Fully agree Dotta . Imo Lucy letby is guilty . I think all this new "evidence " is hogwash . She had her chance to prove innocence in two trials the fact of the matter is she couldn't as she murdered those innocent and most vulnerable of babies .
The only injustice I can see is those families have to have their grief dragged through the mud again by a narcissistic witch

Her new legal team
has to present "new evidence"
to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC)
in order to start new investigation.

"New evidence" is the necessary condition
to get a retrial.

The CCRC is the only route left open to LL
to challenge her convictions.

Her last chance.

So...
"All hands on deck"!!!
"It's now or never".

And this is exactly what we can see is happening now.

JMO

PS
That is how I understand it reading all MSM reports.
Although I promised myself after the original trial
NEVER to return to this horrific case.
Aaaargh!
Promises, promises...

 

[Sweeper2000]

tbh this press conference by the panel of experts has peed me off a little bit. why go public with it when the professional route would be to go through the courts. spose we have mcdonald to thank for it. its not like just because they are experts in the field they can just slide in and say "no the entire efforts of all that went before the court case itself is total rubbish and should be dismissed" thats a huge huge statement to make and one of a level of boldness ive never heard of. i genuinely dont get how they think they can go against an entire system of sooooo many yeafrs of investigations by soooooo many organisations whom all have wayyy more evidence than they had access to. even if they are top level experts the investigations had their own top level experts as well.

Her new legal team
has to present "new evidence"
to the Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC)
in order to start new investigation.

New evidence is the necessary condition
to get a retrial.

The CCRC is the only route left open to LL
to challenge her convictions.

JMO

they do, they have a differential diagnosis supposedy new evidence but i dont think it stands even if they are top level experts, the prosecution had their own.

 

[mrC]

so i have the word of the telegraph and the bbc that she wasn't on duty when baby c died and the word of evans that she was illl go with the telegraph as they have no reason to lie while he has

 

[mrC]

one of the proscution experts is curently under invistigation by the gmb another one is longer allowed to practice medicine and evans expertise has been called in qustion several times in other cases where as far as i know the defence experts reputians are as yet unblemished

 

[Sweeper2000]

so i have the word of the telegraph and the bbc that she wasn't on duty when baby c died and the word of evans that she was illl go with the telegraph as they have no reason to lie while he has

mrc i say it with all due respect but nearly all of your posts display a lack of accumulated details from established facts about the whole thing. I appreciate some are acting in best interests but I believe it is easier to argue from sentiment. Dr evans has said nothing about lucy letby being present in the case of child c, he hadnt even heard of her up until the trial. he was not a part of the prosecution team but he was a prosecution witness tasked solely with looking at an assortment of med files from the coch. for some he said they were suspicious for others he said there was a clear medical pathway that they followed in other terms they were clear cut cases of medical issues causing problems in other words not suspicious. he was also tasked with backing them up in court and were seconded by Dr Bohin, an expert neonatologist in her own right. I hope you have not taken issue with Dr Evans as many have, his input in the trial was fair and is held to be so by the courts.

 

[mrC]

so where does the cliam that she was on duty come form as i have 2 sources to say she wasnt

i certanly take issue with Dr. Evens as he contradicted himself in interviews several times

its also rather odd for an expert witness to contact the police and ask to be involved in the case its normal that the police contact the expert not the other way around

 

[Sweeper2000]

so where does the cliam that she was on duty come form as i have 2 sources to say she wasnt

i certanly take issue with Dr. Evens as he contradicted himself in interviews several times

its also rather odd for an expert witness to contact the police and ask to be involved in the case its normal that the police contact the expert not the other way around

I think the reason why baby c case still stands was that what she was alleged to have done would not neccesarily be of fatal consequence whilst she was still working. in other words it took time for her method to cause death and in that time she left work. similar to the insulin cases, it would not be fatal instantly like venous air embolism. as an example if i go in a persons house tie them up and leave them to starve to death i will be long gone by the time they actually do die.
your point about dr evans "touting for work" is valid but means nothing, he had a service to offer and so offered it and the offer was accepted for which he was paid, thats the role that he played. it doesnt say anything about his thoughts on lucy letby before the trial or the quality of the services he offered ie the medical diagnosis.

 

[May72031]

so i have the word of the telegraph and the bbc that she wasn't on duty when baby c died

Where have you got these "words" from?

 

[May72031]

BTW, Mr. C, that Telegraph articles states "Baby C later collapsed and died when Letby was on the night shift on 13th/14th June".

So why are you claiming she wasn't on duty when Baby C died?

Perhaps you should avoid articles written by Sarah Crapton.

 

[Ruthbullock]

The Jurors weren't convinced by her.

JMO

Some of the jury were convinced that there was some doubt- let’s not forget she was not found guilty of any murders unanimously. After 78 hours the first two verdicts were the only unanimous verdicts and they were the 2 cases of attempted murder using insulin.

 

[marynnu]

Some of the jury were convinced that there was some doubt- let’s not forget she was not found guilty of any murders unanimously. After 78 hours the first two verdicts were the only unanimous verdicts and they were the 2 cases of attempted murder using insulin.

Wasn't the Baby O verdict unanimous?

 

[JosieJo]

Baby K was unanimous

 

[Ruthbullock]

Baby K was unanimous

Not in the first trial that was at retrial

 

[Tortoise]

Attempted murder verdicts mean her intent was to kill, whereas murder verdicts can be intent to cause grievous bodily harm or to kill.

Yes @marynnu, baby O was a unanimous murder verdict.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Wasn't the Baby O verdict unanimous?

After the first two verdicts 78 hours into deliberations, the jury was ordered by the judge, Mr Justice Goss, to try to reach a majority decision on all other counts- this was after 15 more days of deliberation.
Baby O may have ended up unanimous ( I can’t find the table now of how the verdicts were broken down)

 

[JosieJo]

Not in the first trial that was at retrial

Yes

 

[Ruthbullock]

I think the reason why baby c case still stands was that what she was alleged to have done would not neccesarily be of fatal consequence whilst she was still working. in other words it took time for her method to cause death and in that time she left work. similar to the insulin cases, it would not be fatal instantly like venous air embolism. as an example if i go in a persons house tie them up and leave them to starve to death i will be long gone by the time they actually do die.
your point about dr evans "touting for work" is valid but means nothing, he had a service to offer and so offered it and the offer was accepted for which he was paid, thats the role that he played. it doesnt say anything about his thoughts on lucy letby before the trial or the quality of the services he offered ie the medical diagnosis.

It’s the opposite way round for baby c- the xray that was used as evidence of an injection of air and a bloated stomach was taken on a day she was not on shift, she was on shift after that day and the narrative was the baby still died of an injection of air- but done after the xray. No explanantion was offered about the xray, but it had already been shown to the jury as evidence. The 12th when LL was not around was the day an air bubble was seen on the xray, this is also the day a long line was inserted and the UVC was dislodged.

https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/thirlwall-evidence/INQ0007707_20.pdf

https://thirlwall.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/thirlwall-evidence/INQ0006862_31.pdf

 

[Sweeper2000]

It’s the opposite way round for baby c- the xray that was used as evidence of an injection of air and a bloated stomach was taken on a day she was not on shift, she was on shift after that day and the narrative was the baby still died of an injection of air- but done after the xray. No explanantion was offered about the xray, but it had already been shown to the jury as evidence.

was waiting for this. tbh was a very long time since i read the case files i would bet plenty of that very detailed trial has been misplaced in my mind excepting a few. What I did remember was what i said though in that what she did was obviously still of efefct after her shift had ended.

maybe the x ray was seen as normal you know due to cpap belly or the like but the babies collapse and death was not and was unexplained. The Xray though fits with her methods and thus was presented as being within the right timeline but wasn't, but that has no bearing on Baby C's passing? if that makes sense.

 

[Dotta]

Even in my country
this case is headlines again.
(In favour of LL I might add)

"Lucy Letby: ​

Baby Murderer ​

or Wrongfully Convicted Nurse?​

Experts Debunk Evidence.​

After reviewing 14 baby deaths
that a jury found nurse Lucy Letby was responsible for,
a panel of experts has challenged
the prosecution's case for conviction,

leaving Britain facing what could be the worst miscarriage of justice in its history.

The murderous nurse came to the world news in the summer of 2023,
when a months-long trial ended with her being sentenced to life in prison.

She was convicted of the murders of seven children
and the attempted murders of seven more
while on duty in the neonatal ward at the Countess of Chester Hospital in 2015-16.

The case seemed implausible from the start,
because the evidence presented by experts,
based on which she was recognized as a murderer,
did not answer the basic question of motive.

Why did so many cruel murders –
by injecting air into the bloodstream of newborns and poisoning them with insulin –
have been committed by a nurse
highly qualified to care for the most seriously ill premature babies,
without the mental disorders and traumas
that could have made her a psychopath?

Now,
a 14-person panel of eminent neonatologists and pediatricians from around the world
have unequivocally stated
that there is no evidence for this.

Interestingly,
there is also no guarantee
that the woman will be quickly pardoned."

Much more in the link:

Lucy Letby: morderczyni noworodków czy niewinnie skazana pielęgniarka? Eksperci podważyli dowody

Po przeanalizowaniu 14 zgonów noworodków, do których wedle ławy przysięgłych przyczyniła się pielęgniarka Lucy Letby, panel specjalistów podważył prowadzące do skazania argumenty prokuratury. Wlk. Brytania mierzy się być może z najtragiczniejszą pomyłką w historii swojego sądownictwa.

www.polityka.pl

 

[Tortoise]

was waiting for this. tbh was a very long time since i read the case files i would bet plenty of that very detailed trial has been misplaced in my mind excepting a few. What I did remember was what i said though in that what she did was obviously still of efefct after her shift had ended.

maybe the x ray was seen as normal you know due to cpap belly or the like but the babies collapse and death was not and was unexplained. The Xray though fits with her methods and thus was presented as being within the right timeline but wasn't, but that has no bearing on Baby C's passing? if that makes sense.

There was massive gastric dilation and ballooning of the stomach when child C died.



Nick Johnson KC says baby C had massive gastric dilation and ballooning of the stomach when he collapsed.
He asks: "For some reason a heart rate was restored and he clung to life for a further five hours plus.

Lucy Letby trial live: I did not enjoy seeing babies in distress, nurse says

Mr Johnson says Child C came off CPAP 12 hours before his collapse, and "did so well" after kangaroo care he was put on to Optiflow, a 'much less invasive method of breathing support, and his NG Tube had been aspirated shortly before his collapse, and no air was found.
Dr Marnerides described "massive" gastric distention, using the word "ballooning".

NJ: "She started the interview process by lying about where she was and the reasons for being in room 1"
Child C had "massive ballooning of the stomach" and "it's obvious what happened" even without the context of the other cases.
NJ: "It's as plain as the nose on your face that Lucy Letby must have injected air down the nasogastric tube [into Child C].
"It was one of her favourite ways of trying to kill children in this case."

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 21 - prosecution closing speech

Dr George Kokai carried out a post-mortem examination for Child C. He noted a distended colon, which Dr Marnerides said was "not an abnormality". He said the potential complication was a twisted colon that would lead to "obvious" symptoms of pain.
There was evidence of "acute pneumonia". Dr Marnerides said one could die of pneumonia or with pneumonia. He said the former was plausible, but upon hearing further clinical evidence, he reviewed his opinion. He said babies dying of penumonia experience gradual deterioration, which was not the case here. He said he revisited the cause of death, viewing images of a distended stomach, and no evidence of NEC.
Prof Arthurs said the small bowel was dilated. Dr Marnerides observed a dilated stomach and bowel, and noted Child C had been off CPAP for over 12 hours. No air had been obtained from aspirates before the collapse. He had never known CPAP belly being the cause of an arrest in a baby in his years of experience.
He said, in his opinion, the cause of Child C's collapse was of excessive air administered into the stomach via the naso-gastric tube.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 3 - judge's summing up

The various counts and the mechanism alleged for the babies concerned, are set out in the table below.

Count Baby Charge Date of death/collapse Mechanism

3 - C - Murder - 14 June 2015 - Air via nasogastric tube

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/R-v-Letby-Final-Judgment-20240702.pdf