UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

  • #1,681
That show is most certainly nothing to do with "fine gourmet dining"! It's basically, idiots cooking for other idiots while drinking too much and arguing.

As far as LL is concerned, she's likely labouring under the delusion that she'll get out soon so is trying to keep current on things. A few years in and she'll start to disconnect with reality.
 
  • #1,682
Bit if character assassination from Mark McDonald here as well.

Complaints made by Guernsey based families about a doctor practicing in the island will be included in the bundle of evidence being presented to the Criminal Cases Review Commission by Lucy Letby’s legal team as she tries to appeal her conviction for murdering babies.

I could pick ANY paediatrician with a practice of 25 years, and interview all of their past patient's families, and there is always going to be some complaints.
 
  • #1,683
(All superstitions stem from cognitive biases. In XXI century, however, we should accept them for what they are, “irrational, albeit comforting, beliefs”.)

Lucy Letby’s case raises a bigger question. How come so many professionals, be it doctors, policemen, journalists, or the court system seemed to show the same pattern of cognition?

Were these different specialists privy to all the facts and aware of their significance before the trial started?

Before we blame the police for not relying on statistics, there is a serious question to ask the doctors involved:

- was the fact of Pseudomonas infestation of COCH NICU in 2015-16 ever disclosed to the police before Operation Hummingbird?

- Was the gravity of this fact explained to the policemen?

If not, the police’s fault might be less, but that of the doctors, surely, more.

I found about the infection after Lucy Letby’s trial. What about the public? Were the expectant mothers planning to give birth in COCH in 2015 aware of it? Didn’t they have the right to know? Was the trial jury aware of what Pseudomonas was?

Dr. Evans was abreast of this, and probably, other things, during his investigation. In his long list of specialists involved, mentioned in the article, sanitary control is glaringly lacking. Drs. Breary, Jayaram, Gibbs, all knew of it. The CEO of the hospital knew.

My question is, was this fact (P. Aeruginosa) shared with Professor Jane Hutton, the statistician initially employed by the police, the one who was let go?

You see, she planned to investigate other factors contributing into NICU mortality and then suddenly the police let her go. Was the decision made solely by the police? Or was the hospital involved, too?
If Pseudomonas aeruginosa had been the actual COD of any of the babies, wouldn't this be discovered at autopsy? The presence of the bacteria would be seen in the blood, wouldn't it?
 
  • #1,684
If Pseudomonas aeruginosa had been the actual COD of any of the babies, wouldn't this be discovered at autopsy? The presence of the bacteria would be seen in the blood, wouldn't it?
Well, precisely!

All if this was looked at during trial; there were no indications of any infection, let alone any confirmations of such, and none of the deaths and collapses presented as though they could be due to infection, as far as I recall. Indeed, if the collapses were due to infection then how come they essentially disappeared when resuscitated? Infections don't just disappear like that?

The pro-Letby camp are simply parroting the same old rubbish in the hope that if you say something for long enough people will start to believe it, imo.
 
  • #1,685
Why don’t you think it’s impactive?

An assistant chief constable who himself has conducted large scale investigations into healthcare deaths and who drew up the policy for investigating such deaths, saying Hummingbird was a product of confirmation bias.

Must be another Letbyist, nothing to see here?
Direct quote from the man

"There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever,”

And that's the end of that.

JMO
 
  • #1,686
If Pseudomonas aeruginosa had been the actual COD of any of the babies, wouldn't this be discovered at autopsy? The presence of the bacteria would be seen in the blood, wouldn't it?

Did they do autopsy in all cases?

The 14-experts panes named another pathogen, stenotophomonas maltophilia, as potential cause of death for one of the babies


Here about Pseudomonas

Did they do autopsy for the baby who died from Necrotizing enterocolitis?
 
  • #1,687
Direct quote from the man

"There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever,”

And that's the end of that.

JMO
On reflection that is genuinely strange. He's quite high in the game, he must know what's admissible as evidence and he must know that circumstancial evidence is admissible and he must know its definition. You can only think he's referring to hard or direct evidence which isn't completely absent. So why is he saying that?
 
  • #1,688
He’s really not sweep.
 
  • #1,689
If Pseudomonas aeruginosa had been the actual COD of any of the babies, wouldn't this be discovered at autopsy? The presence of the bacteria would be seen in the blood, wouldn't it?

Well, we are at an interesting spot where main trial witness Dr. Evans can’t make up his mind about baby C’s death, post-trial. Lucy Letby killed him by injecting air into his stomach, he said. When it was found out that Lucy was not even on the unit the days before or during the X ray, he changed his mind and now states that Lucy killed him by air embolism.


“I recognize the confusion at trial”, per Evans.

In short, with all the confusion I don’t know about PM. But P. Aeruginosa may also grow as a biofilm on the ventilators so the pathologists had to take the swab to rule out P. Aeruginosa.
 
  • #1,690
Did they do autopsy in all cases?

The 14-experts panes named another pathogen, stenotophomonas maltophilia, as potential cause of death for one of the babies


Here about Pseudomonas

Did they do autopsy for the baby who died from Necrotizing enterocolitis?
They did a post mortem on 5 babies. You don't need a post mortem to pick up infection as all babies are screened regularly.
Baby E evidently did not die of NEC. Why the doctor involved suggested it is baffling.
 
  • #1,691
On reflection that is genuinely strange. He's quite high in the game, he must know what's admissible as evidence and he must know that circumstancial evidence is admissible and he must know its definition. You can only think he's referring to hard or direct evidence which isn't completely absent. So why is he saying that?
He criticised the CPS for not bringing prosecutions in relation to the Gosport hospital scandal, where he led one of those investigations and felt adamant there was sufficient evidence to do so. He’s probably wondering what changed for the CPS to enable this absolute farce of a trial.
 
  • #1,692
He’s really not sweep.
High enough to know that stuff though for sure.

I can only think that maybe he thinks in terms of deaths at health institute settings may need a higher bar for evidence? Maybe?
 
  • #1,693
They did a post mortem on 5 babies. You don't need a post mortem to pick up infection as all babies are screened regularly.
Baby E evidently did not die of NEC. Why the doctor involved suggested it is baffling.
Is it baffling? Why would two consultants agree a cause of death which they knew not to be true, and thus avoid a post mortem? I wonder how common this sort of thing is.
 
  • #1,694
Is it baffling? Why would two consultants agree a cause of death which they knew not to be true, and thus avoid a post mortem? I wonder how common this sort of thing is.
Who was the second consultant?
 
  • #1,695
  • #1,696
  • #1,697
No, there was no second consultant as far as I know.
Dr Gibbs was there and agreed with the NEC diagnosis despite looking at the xray, and it was he who spoke to the coroner about it. It was Dr ZA (?) who was the other consultant. I think there was actually a third consultant involved too, but these are the two I’m thinking of.

Edit: I might be confused, I’ll take a look a bit later, I feel certain Gibbs was the one who supported the NEC diagnosis. But will hold my hands up if I’m wrong.
 
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  • #1,698
Well, we are at an interesting spot where main trial witness Dr. Evans can’t make up his mind about baby C’s death, post-trial. Lucy Letby killed him by injecting air into his stomach, he said. When it was found out that Lucy was not even on the unit the days before or during the X ray, he changed his mind and now states that Lucy killed him by air embolism.


“I recognize the confusion at trial”, per Evans.

In short, with all the confusion I don’t know about PM. But P. Aeruginosa may also grow as a biofilm on the ventilators so the pathologists had to take the swab to rule out P. Aeruginosa.

Dr Evans said in the court case that it either an air embolism, air injection to the stomach or both that killed baby C. It was clearly explained at the trial that Lucy wasn't there when the X Ray was taken. There was air found in the stomach during the post mortem.
 
  • #1,699
Dr Gibbs was there and agreed with the NEC diagnosis despite looking at the xray, and it was he who spoke to the coroner about it. It was Dr ZA (?) who was the other consultant. I think there was actually a third consultant involved too, but these are the two I’m thinking of.

Edit: I might be confused, I’ll take a look a bit later, I feel certain Gibbs was the one who supported the NEC diagnosis. But will hold my hands up if I’m wrong.

Dr ZA, took responsibility for not arranging an autopsy for baby E. At the Thirlwall inquiry she apologised to the parents and said on reflection the X Ray didn't show NEC.
 
  • #1,700
Dr Gibbs was there and agreed with the NEC diagnosis despite looking at the xray, and it was he who spoke to the coroner about it. It was Dr ZA (?) who was the other consultant. I think there was actually a third consultant involved too, but these are the two I’m thinking of.

Edit: I might be confused, I’ll take a look a bit later, I feel certain Gibbs was the one who supported the NEC diagnosis. But will hold my hands up if I’m wrong.
No it was Dr ZA alone. She was on call that night and attended the death with registrar Dr Harkness.

DR ZA at Thirlwall -

Q. And had you been more curious, what investigations were available to you at the time to take that further?

A. I spoke to the Coroner and explained that I thought the cause of death was NEC, which meant that the Coroner and I agreed that we should issue a --I should issue a medical certificate of cause of death with that as the explanation. Had I not had those thoughts when I discussed it with the Coroner, then Child E would have had a postmortem to look for the cause of death.


Dr Gibbs at Thirlwall -

You examined Child E on 2 August. There wasa deterioration on 3 August which was unexpected and Child E died on 4 August, is that your understanding?

A. Sadly that's my understanding, yes.

Q. What you say at paragraph 142 is that it was surprising that Child E rapidly deteriorated and died?

A. Yes. That's after I had found him well the previous day. Others who were looking after him the day he died will be able to report how well he seemed before he suddenly collapsed.

 

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