UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[katydid23]

To those claiming there is no new evidence, what is your opinion of the control sample done by the lab in the months between the two relevant babies? It wasn’t disclosed at trial, instead the jury were told the lab was performing very well. The lab’s result on that quality control sample recorded less than 15% of the c-peptide present, and 800% of the insulin.

But yet the jury was told such results mean only one thing: exogenous insulin. Did Lucy Letby poison the quality control sample too?

How is this NOT new evidence? It was not disclosed to the defence.

OK, can you link to a credible source for this new evidence?

 

[katydid23]

Surely all that matters is the truth?

Exactly. All that matters is the truth. And Nurse Letby lied her butt off concerning Baby E. And she was caught out for that in front of the jury and the public.

I know 100% that she lied about what time Baby E started bleeding from his mouth. She lied when she claimed Baby E's mother didn't arrive @ 9 pm with her breast milk. She lied when she told the mum that she had already called a doctor for help for her baby.

She falsified her medical log when she recorded false times for those events. There is no question about all of the above as it was proven in court with evidence supporting the parents and the consultant in opposition to Letby's false version of events.

Once I saw the testimony of those parents and their phone records supporting their timeline, I knew Letby was a liar. WHY would she lie about those things?

It was obvious those lies were all about covering up the assault upon that poor baby.

So I AGREE, all that matters is the truth. And the truth is Nurse Letby was a vicious coldhearted presence in that nursery. IMO

 

[katydid23]

The plumber testified he was called out weekly

For many tasks, but certainly not for dirty water leaking into the sinks on a weekly basis. I followed his testimony and he never claimed that.

 

[WaneLyrical]

OK, can you link to a credible source for this new evidence?

It’s in unherd so I don’t think I can link to that.

 

[Parker Knoll]

To save you the job of reading the link I added upthread I have pasted it here and bolded the relevant references.


A plumber, Lorenzo Mansutti, was the only person called to give evidence on behalf of the nurse as the defence closed its case on Wednesday.


Letby, 33, denies murdering seven children and attempting to kill 10 others on the neo-natal unit at the Countess of Chester hospital in the year to June 2016.


Mansutti, who has worked as a plumber on the hospital estate since 1986, confirmed Letby's recollection of an incident she suggested may have contributed to the unexplained deaths of babies.


Giving evidence last month, Letby, 33, said parts of the neonatal unit were


"not a safe working environment" because there were "often plumbing issues".


She told jurors: "We used to have raw sewage coming out of the sinks [and] coming out on the floor in nursery one."


Letby said the issues could have played a role in the unexplained deaths and collapses of babies as staff were unable to clean their hands. "It's a contributory issue if the unit is dirty and staff were unable to wash their hands," she said.


Mansutti said there were issues with the drainage system at the hospital's women and children's building which he said was built in the late 1960s and opened in the 1970s.


Asked by Benjamin Myers KC, defending, how often he was called out for


"these sort of issues" in 2015 and 2016, the witness replied: “ for the whole building it was maybe weekly “


He said he recalled that "foul water" had come out of a sink in the intensive care suite - as Letby had claimed - but that he believed it was the only time this happened as improvement works were carried out afterwards.


Mansutti said he did not attend the incident himself and could not recall when it happened as there was no formal record of it on the hospital's Datix risk management system.


He gave details of 11 other plumbing incidents in the same building in the year to June 2016, the period when Letby allegedly murdered babies.


Under cross examination by the prosecutor, Nick Johnson KC, Mansutti accepted that about half of those issues happened in the labour suite and there would be “ no consequences “ on the neonatal unit.


So ….Air injected, internal bleeding, bleeding and trauma in the throat, synthetic insulin added to babies TPN bags, over feeding with milk causing quadriplegic cerebral palsy, injections of air and liver injury to reference some of Letbys preferred methods to kill the babies on the indictment and funnily enough NO babies died of conditions related to the hygiene on the NICU.

 

[JosieJo]

The plumber testified he was called out weekly

But for what ? And the severity ?

 

[JosieJo]

To save you the job of reading the link I added upthread I have pasted it here and bolded the relevant references.


A plumber, Lorenzo Mansutti, was the only person called to give evidence on behalf of the nurse as the defence closed its case on Wednesday.


Letby, 33, denies murdering seven children and attempting to kill 10 others on the neo-natal unit at the Countess of Chester hospital in the year to June 2016.


Mansutti, who has worked as a plumber on the hospital estate since 1986, confirmed Letby's recollection of an incident she suggested may have contributed to the unexplained deaths of babies.


Giving evidence last month, Letby, 33, said parts of the neonatal unit were


"not a safe working environment" because there were "often plumbing issues".


She told jurors: "We used to have raw sewage coming out of the sinks [and] coming out on the floor in nursery one."


Letby said the issues could have played a role in the unexplained deaths and collapses of babies as staff were unable to clean their hands. "It's a contributory issue if the unit is dirty and staff were unable to wash their hands," she said.


Mansutti said there were issues with the drainage system at the hospital's women and children's building which he said was built in the late 1960s and opened in the 1970s.


Asked by Benjamin Myers KC, defending, how often he was called out for


"these sort of issues" in 2015 and 2016, the witness replied: “ for the whole building it was maybe weekly “


He said he recalled that "foul water" had come out of a sink in the intensive care suite - as Letby had claimed - but that he believed it was the only time this happened as improvement works were carried out afterwards.


Mansutti said he did not attend the incident himself and could not recall when it happened as there was no formal record of it on the hospital's Datix risk management system.


He gave details of 11 other plumbing incidents in the same building in the year to June 2016, the period when Letby allegedly murdered babies.


Under cross examination by the prosecutor, Nick Johnson KC, Mansutti accepted that about half of those issues happened in the labour suite and there would be “ no consequences “ on the neonatal unit.


So ….Air injected, internal bleeding, bleeding and trauma in the throat, synthetic insulin added to babies TPN bags, over feeding with milk causing quadriplegic cerebral palsy, injections of air and liver injury to reference some of Letbys preferred methods to kill the babies on the indictment and funnily enough NO babies died of conditions related to the hygiene on the NICU.

Thank you ...

 

[Marantz4250b]

It was built 60 years ago near enough … I’m not excusing it but of course it will have issues and it won’t be the only NHS hospital to have them either.

I would also bet my house on Letby blocking sinks during her time there as a little back up for when she needed to suggest that some of the deaths were down to sanitation, also if you read the article I have linked the weekly call outs were for the whole building not the NICU.

No babies died due to plumbing issues at the CoCH
They died at the hands of Letby.

Plumber tells Lucy Letby murder trial of drainage problems at hospital

Lorenzo Mansutti gives evidence after nurse said parts of neonatal unit were not a safe working environment

www.theguardian.com

Haha - great minds think alike!

I was wrong, though. I doubt you are.

 

[Marantz4250b]

What is it about this case that people are ready to bet their houses???

You are the second one
if my memory serves me right

Remember the first one?

Yep - me!

 

[Parker Knoll]

As Brits it’s preferable to “ bottom dollar “ Dotta ! ;- )

 

[Charlot123]

What is it about this case that people are ready to bet their houses???

You are the second one
if my memory serves me right

Remember the first one?

Where is doozy wager or whatever the name? He lived in Las Vegas and used to be active on Delphi threads.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Asked by Benjamin Myers KC, defending, how often he was called out for


"these sort of issues" in 2015 and 2016, the witness replied: “ for the whole building it was maybe weekly “


He said he recalled that "foul water" had come out of a sink in the intensive care suite - as Letby had claimed - but that he believed it was the only time this happened as improvement works were carried out afterwards.

Was it this link

Plumber tells Lucy Letby murder trial of drainage problems at hospital

Lorenzo Mansutti gives evidence after nurse said parts of neonatal unit were not a safe working environment

www.theguardian.com

as it seems to oversimplify the reporting from the trial that day shared below, or perhaps it’s just the quotes out of context for that article- every article has a tiny snippet and presents the information differently .

He says in this trial reporting “He says he would be called out "weekly" to fix problems.” Just in this reporting (links below) from his testimony 6 incidents occur in the neonatal unit rooms alongside several in the labour suite and this is a simplified and condensed reporting of a whole session of testimony.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 14 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Lucy Letby trial: Plumber tells of sewage issues at hospital - BBC News

Murder-accused Lucy Letby previously described drainage issues on the neonatal unit where she worked.

www.bbc.co.uk

And then you get another article that quotes he couldn’t confirm whether it was a one off or not the sewage flooding- this article shares that the blockage was actually caused in the floor above and subsequently flooded the downstairs room

“The witness told Mr Johnson that following the incident in Nursery 1 work had been carried out to make sure it could never happen again.

Mr Johnson asked: 'So a one-off?'

Mr Mansutti: 'I couldn't say yes or no.'“

Pumber called as the only witness in the defence of nurse Lucy Letby

Lorenzo Mansutti, a plumber at the Countess of Chester Hospital, said that on one occasion raw sewage was seen coming out of a hand basin in Nursery 1.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Tortoise]

Was it this link

Plumber tells Lucy Letby murder trial of drainage problems at hospital

Lorenzo Mansutti gives evidence after nurse said parts of neonatal unit were not a safe working environment

www.theguardian.com

as it seems to oversimplify the reporting from the trial that day shared below, or perhaps it’s just the quotes out of context for that article- every article has a tiny snippet and presents the information differently .

He says in this trial reporting “He says he would be called out "weekly" to fix problems.” Just in this reporting (links below) from his testimony 6 incidents occur in the neonatal unit rooms alongside several in the labour suite and this is a simplified and condensed reporting of a whole session of testimony.

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, June 14 - defence continues

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Lucy Letby trial: Plumber tells of sewage issues at hospital - BBC News

Murder-accused Lucy Letby previously described drainage issues on the neonatal unit where she worked.

www.bbc.co.uk

And then you get another article that quotes he couldn’t confirm whether it was a one off or not the sewage flooding- this article shares that the blockage was actually caused in the floor above and subsequently flooded the downstairs room

“The witness told Mr Johnson that following the incident in Nursery 1 work had been carried out to make sure it could never happen again.

Mr Johnson asked: 'So a one-off?'

Mr Mansutti: 'I couldn't say yes or no.'“

Pumber called as the only witness in the defence of nurse Lucy Letby

Lorenzo Mansutti, a plumber at the Countess of Chester Hospital, said that on one occasion raw sewage was seen coming out of a hand basin in Nursery 1.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think the judge's summing up is helpful in this regard.

'He says the last evidence heard was from Lorenzo Mansutti, an experienced plumber at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
The Women's and Children's building was built in the 1960s and there were issues with the plumbing, and there was an incident between 2015-2016 where the hand basin backed up with foul water. There was another incident where room 4's floor flooded after a back-up sink overflowed. None of the incidents reported happened on the days when the alleged offences took place.'

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 3 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

 

[Ruthbullock]

I think the judge's summing up is helpful in this regard.

'He says the last evidence heard was from Lorenzo Mansutti, an experienced plumber at the Countess of Chester Hospital.
The Women's and Children's building was built in the 1960s and there were issues with the plumbing, and there was an incident between 2015-2016 where the hand basin backed up with foul water. There was another incident where room 4's floor flooded after a back-up sink overflowed. None of the incidents reported happened on the days when the alleged offences took place.'

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, July 3 - judge's summing up

The trial of Lucy Letby, who denies murdering seven babies at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit and attempting to murder 10 more, is…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Thanks Tortoise, It confirms my point which was it absolutely depends what you read and digest.

Reading the judges summing up made me consider the following:

Obviously the judge has the freedom to say what he feels is relevant in his summary- but I’m fairly sure infections and/or sepsis have no recorded medical incidents of causing immediate collapses with either adults or children unless you fell in a slurry pit. It seems a bit irrelevant to feel the need to point out they weren't occurring on the same day as any of the charges occurred. I would have thought it was more relevant to highlight if they were not recorded in the preceding days before, and no I am not a doctor, but sepsis and most other infections do not present themselves immediately. It seems to me the only relevance of that statement is to attempt to sway the jury to discount the reports.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936550314758312146

 

[Sweeper2000]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1936550314758312146

guarantee he knows nothing about it. im willing to bet my house on it

 

[Marantz4250b]

This is precisely what I was saying the other day; the narrative from her supporters is that the evidence is "..becoming stronger every day.." when all that's happening is that more people are jumping on the bandwagon.

The reality is that there is NO additional evidence, it's the same old rubbish it was before but people claim its stronger because it gets talked about more and more notable people are putting their names to the cause.

Reality doesn't change simply because you discuss a situation more!

 

[marynnu]

Nigel Farage & Jeremy Hunt. That's her fate sealed then. IMO.

 

[Parker Knoll]

Unsurprising from someone who wants to effectively privatise the NHS.

 

[Ruthbullock]

National inquiry into maternity care announced by Wes Streeting

It will target the worst-performing trusts in England - and report back by the end of the year.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wonder if there will be any overlaps through this inquiry- the report will be published by December this year, so prior to the Thirlwall Inquiry being wrapped up. JMO but they will steer clear of having the COCH in the inquiry and probably the Liverpool Women’s and Children’s Hospital, but I do wonder if some of the recommendations from both will overlap. I’m thinking safe guarding and whistle blowing- although there was a report about those issues, that released its results at the start of 2015, and didn’t seem to subsequently be implemented or raise standards., even though most of the consultants and junior doctors admitted to knowing about it.

ETA- it’s not an inquiry, it’s a review/investigation