UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[katydid23]

My concern is that AE has just been used as a catch all cause of death with nothing to support it and no way to disprove it. Theoretically you can take any death and simply say it was AE if Letby happened to be there (and she was there for most of not all of the deaths that occurred that year)

NO. I think you are ignoring the many descriptions of the WAYS that these collapses were so unusual.

What the sudden unexplained collapses had in common with each other was things like ' infants inability to be revived' and them needing to give multiple shots of adrenaline to a tiny preemie in order to revive them, when usually one is sufficient.

The resuscitation team had never seen that before but during this span of time, multiple babies had that extremely unusual reaction.

So 'theoretically' that is one thing that prevents these cases apart from the others which had obvious medical causes.

 

[Sweeper2000]

NO. I think you are ignoring the many descriptions of the WAYS that these collapses were so unusual.

What the sudden unexplained collapses had in common with each other was things like ' infants inability to be revived' and them needing to give multiple shots of adrenaline to a tiny preemie in order to revive them, when usually one is sufficient.

The resuscitation team had never seen that before but during this span of time, multiple babies had that extremely unusual reaction.

So 'theoretically' that is one thing that prevents these cases apart from the others which had obvious medical causes

exactly. i also think the moving rashes were of particular note as it was that unusual the docs or at least one of had never seen it before and never seen it since which is saying something. its also noteworthy that this adds to the case that it was deliberate.

 

[marynnu]

exactly. i also think the moving rashes were of particular note as it was that unusual the docs or at least one of had never seen it before and never seen it since which is saying something. its also noteworthy that this adds to the case that it was deliberate.

Absolutely. I for one never saw a rash moving around in over 3 decades on a neonatal unit.

 

[Rohmer]

If you were at work and 15 of the top doctors in their relevant fields with an impressive amount of academic papers to their name all said one thing, and Dr Evans a retired paediatrician and who never even qualified as a neonatologist to begin with said another, who would you trust to make a decision?

Perhaps this is an unanswerable hypothetical question, but it’s bonkers to me how

NO. I think you are ignoring the many descriptions of the WAYS that these collapses were so unusual.

What the sudden unexplained collapses had in common with each other was things like ' infants inability to be revived' and them needing to give multiple shots of adrenaline to a tiny preemie in order to revive them, when usually one is sufficient.

The resuscitation team had never seen that before but during this span of time, multiple babies had that extremely unusual reaction.

So 'theoretically' that is one thing that prevents these cases apart from the others which had obvious medical causes.

Except 14 and counting world class experts that outrank Dr Evans the way Lionel Messi outranks me at football disagree. The same Dr Evans who made a complete -up in even trying to understand AE, let alone diagnose it in these cases.

Letby’s name will go down in history as the current iteration of the Birmingham Six. No one credible is left who believes in her guilt. No one has taken up Dr Hammond’s offer to rebut these experts findings and you better believe if such experts existed they would feel duty bound to come forward and set the record straight.

 

[joltz]

If you were at work and 15 of the top doctors in their relevant fields with an impressive amount of academic papers to their name all said one thing, and Dr Evans a retired paediatrician and who never even qualified as a neonatologist to begin with said another, who would you trust to make a decision?

Perhaps this is an unanswerable hypothetical question, but it’s bonkers to me how

Except 14 and counting world class experts that outrank Dr Evans the way Lionel Messi outranks me at football disagree. The same Dr Evans who made a complete -up in even trying to understand AE, let alone diagnose it in these cases.

Letby’s name will go down in history as the current iteration of the Birmingham Six. No one credible is left who believes in her guilt. No one has taken up Dr Hammond’s offer to rebut these experts findings and you better believe if such experts existed they would feel duty bound to come forward and set the record straight.

These posts all seems to bluster on about the same things, none of them have any substance.
14 world leading experts mention
Check
Previous moj mention (Birmingham 6)
Check
Dr Evans as pantomime villain
Check

Do these people proof read their posts before they post and is this meant to be serious or satire?

JMO

 

[JosieJo]

If you were at work and 15 of the top doctors in their relevant fields with an impressive amount of academic papers to their name all said one thing, and Dr Evans a retired paediatrician and who never even qualified as a neonatologist to begin with said another, who would you trust to make a decision?

Perhaps this is an unanswerable hypothetical question, but it’s bonkers to me how

Except 14 and counting world class experts that outrank Dr Evans the way Lionel Messi outranks me at football disagree. The same Dr Evans who made a complete -up in even trying to understand AE, let alone diagnose it in these cases.

Letby’s name will go down in history as the current iteration of the Birmingham Six. No one credible is left who believes in her guilt. No one has taken up Dr Hammond’s offer to rebut these experts findings and you better believe if such experts existed they would feel duty bound to come forward and set the record straight.

All these experts have not attended the trial or had access trial transcripts...what a lot of them are saying were "possible causes of death" were challenged and ruled out at trial.

It's like critiquing a "football match" and why it went the way it did based only on the list of players. You need to see the match

 

[Parker Knoll]

But the prosecution didn’t just offer up Dr Evan’s and hoped for the best … your post is as usual littered with inaccuracies.
They also called Dr Sandie Bohin and a stream of forensic pathologists, radiologists and endocrinologists to name just a few.
Funnily enough no statisticians were called because as much as the truthers bleat on about this, this case had nothing to do with statistics.
The earth isn’t flat either the last time I checked.
This is just beyond boring now.

 

[May72031]

Letby’s name will go down in history as the current iteration of the Birmingham Six. No one credible is left who believes in her guilt.

Oh boy.

 

[WaneLyrical]

Senior nurse warned of ‘nightmare’ baby-killing bacteria in Lucy Letby unit

Deadly bug was a persistent danger at Countess of Chester Hospital baby ward, leaked email suggests

www.telegraph.co.uk

Beautiful. They were lining the ceilings with nappies to try and stop the sewage dripping into the unit.

But I’m sure everyone will tell me how this is normal, there’s nothing to see here, the plumber is an idiot, it’s the same in every hospital up and down the country. That breathing in literal human waste all day and all night is absolutely fine for intensive care babies.

 

[JosieJo]

Senior nurse warned of ‘nightmare’ baby-killing bacteria in Lucy Letby unit

Deadly bug was a persistent danger at Countess of Chester Hospital baby ward, leaked email suggests

www.telegraph.co.uk

Beautiful. They were lining the ceilings with nappies to try and stop the sewage dripping into the unit.

But I’m sure everyone will tell me how this is normal, there’s nothing to see here, the plumber is an idiot, it’s the same in every hospital up and down the country. That breathing in literal human waste all day and all night is absolutely fine for intensive care babies.

As a hospital manager for 20 years and nhs employee for 34 years this doesn't suprise me . Always problems with old buildings.

This aside ... the babies were not showing signs of infection.

Even if they had infection does not cause "sudden collapse"

 

[Charlot123]

Your idea of logic is very odd. I have no idea why people have a problem with the shift chart. There were a number of unusual occurrences, she was on shift for them. It was a starting point, wasn't it. Not exactly hard to understand.

Why is the shift chart odd?

Mostly, because they teach science and statistics in medical schools. Latin, too. Everyone knows that the phrase “post hoc, ergo propter hoc" meaning "after this, therefore because of this”, represents one of the most primitive logical fallacies known to mankind. (These days, we more often hear the form “correlation doesn’t imply causation”).

So yes, the concreteness of Dr. Breary takes one aback. In fact, this is where the doctors should have invited a statistician to prove/disprove their ideas, but they did nothing of sorts.

 

[Charlot123]

As a hospital manager for 20 years and nhs employee for 34 years this doesn't suprise me . Always problems with old buildings.

This aside ... the babies were not showing signs of infection.

Even if they had infection does not cause "sudden collapse"

Does not?

What about “septic shock”?

Septic shock - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[May72031]

Does not?

What about “septic shock”?

Septic shock - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Where is the evidence of septic shock?

 

[Sweeper2000]

oh please. the med records are complete and been checked probably dozens of times. no chance of anything being missed there so put that to bed. i am no doctor and i stopped trying to be one once i realised real docs had already given their very well informed opinions on what happened wit these babies.

 

[Dotta]

"Colleagues' TV revelations"​

https://twitter.com/x/status/1951790794152542370

 

[Charlot123]

Where is the evidence of septic shock?

I am just pointing out that the phrase

“infection does not cause "sudden collapse"”

is incorrectly worded, IMO. Because collapse is precisely what happens in septic (caused by an infectious agent) shock. This is just one example.

For all reasons, Lucy Letby’s one it is also an important teaching case. I learned a lot about the neonates from it.

 

[katydid23]

If you were at work and 15 of the top doctors in their relevant fields with an impressive amount of academic papers to their name all said one thing, and Dr Evans a retired paediatrician and who never even qualified as a neonatologist to begin with said another, who would you trust to make a decision?

Perhaps this is an unanswerable hypothetical question, but it’s bonkers to me how

Except 14 and counting world class experts that outrank Dr Evans the way Lionel Messi outranks me at football disagree. The same Dr Evans who made a complete -up in even trying to understand AE, let alone diagnose it in these cases.

Letby’s name will go down in history as the current iteration of the Birmingham Six. No one credible is left who believes in her guilt. No one has taken up Dr Hammond’s offer to rebut these experts findings and you better believe if such experts existed they would feel duty bound to come forward and set the record straight.

Those 14 alleged experts were not there. They were not present on the floor during that critical time span. So I would rely strongly upon the witness expert testimony from the doctors and nurses who experienced the tragic incidents. They all KNEW something was wrong.

 

[katydid23]

I am just pointing out that the phrase

“infection does not cause "sudden collapse"”

is incorrectly worded, IMO. Because collapse is precisely what happens in septic (caused by an infectious agent) shock. This is just one example.

For all reasons, Lucy Letby’s one it is also an important teaching case. I learned a lot about the neonates from it.

Every one of those babies was tested for septic shock symptoms and it was not found to be the cause of the deaths or collapses.

 

[JosieJo]

I am just pointing out that the phrase

“infection does not cause "sudden collapse"”

is incorrectly worded, IMO. Because collapse is precisely what happens in septic (caused by an infectious agent) shock. This is just one example.

For all reasons, Lucy Letby’s one it is also an important teaching case. I learned a lot about the neonates from it.

It's not incorrectly worded ...SUDDEN ..is the key here.
These babies were being constantly monitored .. there would have been signs of an infection prior to collapse

 

[belinda15]

It's not incorrectly worded ...SUDDEN ..is the key here.
These babies were being constantly monitored .. there would have been signs of an infection prior to collapse

Well, we hope they were being constantly monitored!