GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[JosieJo]

The court of appeal are not doctors, and yet doctors have come out in their droves to say what was presented in court was not evidence of air embolism.

Nina Modi actually said there was evidence of Air embolism it's just she disagreed on the cause in one case

 

[WaneLyrical]

This is the exact exchange from the transcript.


Q. Well, just remind us about what happened when you were arrested.
A. What do you mean?
Q. You really don't remember?
A. You want me to describe how I was arrested?
Q. Yes, how awful it was and why it was so awful.
A. I've already explained that once.
Q. Yes, well, it's a long time ago and I'd like you to remind us, please.
A. They knocked at my door at 6 o'clock in the morning and they arrested me.
Q. And how were you dressed when you left the house?
A. I think I had a nightie on and then a tracksuit bottom and top and trainers.
Q. Oh, but you told the jury you were taken away in your nightwear, in your pyjamas, I think was how you put it.
A. Yes.
Q. You were taken away in a blue Lee Cooper leisure suit, weren't you?
A. I don't recall exactly. I just know I had a nightie on.
Q. Do you want me to show you a video of it?
A. No.
Q. Well, I'll ask you again. You were taken away in a blue Lee Cooper leisure suit, weren't you?
A. Yes.
Q. On 10 June 2019, when you answered the door, you answered in your nightie.
A. No, I didn't answer the door on -- the 2019.
Q. Oh, you've got a very clear memory of this then, haven't you?
A. Yes, I remember this through the -- the arrests, yes.
Q. When the police came face-to-face with you, you had a nightie on, didn't you?
A. In 2019?
Q. Yes.
A. I had my pyjamas on, yes.
Q. No, you had a nightie on.
A. Okay.
Q. Do you want to see a video?
A. No.
Q. Do you remember having a nightie on?
A. I can't recall specifically which night. I was in bed.
Q. Do you remember what you left the house wearing?
A. Um... No. I know I was unable to get dressed and I think I took a dressing gown as well.
Q. You put your blue Lee Cooper leisure suit on again, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Then you asked them to let you put your dressing gown on over the blue Lee Cooper leisure suit, didn't you?
A. Yes.
Q. So you weren't taken away in your pyjamas, were you?
A. No.
Q. And you remember this, don't you?
A. Yes.
Q. Why did you lie to the jury about it?
A. I don't know.
Q. You don't know? What advantage were you looking for by telling the jury that you were taken away by the police in your pyjamas? What benefit was there?
A. Because that's what happened on the first time. That was was how quickly everything happened.
Q. No, no. On the first time you were taken away in your blue Lee Cooper -- do you want to watch the video?

(pause)

You are a very calculating woman, aren't you, Lucy Letby?
A. No.

And now that we see the footage, she wasn’t lying at all, was she?

Getting in the back of a police car in a dressing gown and describing it as “in my pyjamas” is hardly ‘very calculating’. Isn’t that how most of us would describe being outdoors in a dressing gown.

I also wouldn’t describe shoving a tracksuit top on over a nightie as “getting dressed”, because I don’t wear tracksuits when I’m out and about. I would describe that as being allowed to shove a tracksuit top on. Probably one that I lounge, and sleep, in.

 

[CS2C]

And there it is ..facts

I also have what she said to the jury about the PJ's. I'll see if I can dig it out.

 

[WaneLyrical]

Nina Modi actually said there was evidence of Air embolism it's just she disagreed on the cause in one case

Not as a cause of collapse she didn’t

 

[Sweeper2000]

Thanks @CS2C

Is she lying? That's a stretch I think. Is a small matter though It could just be her saying things but actually just trying to express her shock felt at the time. She doesn't quite seem Adept at articulating herself. Even her response at nj saying she was lying, is that how a skilled liar would respond to that question Inn that context? Answers no imo but remains a small matter.

 

[Jules2021]

I knew she had to have asked to put a dressing gown on-probably thinking the whole time oh poor me look everyone will feel sorry for me. NJ is right she is very calculating. It's all about how she can look like a victim imo.

 

[CS2C]

Letby's evidence in chief

Q. So when they came, what happened with you?
A. They told me that I was being arrested for multiple counts of murder and attempted murder and then they quickly handcuffed me and took me away.
Q. All right. And you were taken to a police station; is that right?
A. In my pyjamas, yes.

 

[JosieJo]

Not as a cause of collapse she didn’t

And ?

 

[WaneLyrical]

And ?

Are you just arguing semantics?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Letby's evidence in chief

Q. So when they came, what happened with you?
A. They told me that I was being arrested for multiple counts of murder and attempted murder and then they quickly handcuffed me and took me away.
Q. All right. And you were taken to a police station; is that right?
A. In my pyjamas, yes.

it does seem a stretch to call that a lie.

 

[JosieJo]

Are you just arguing semantics?

No ...I'm saying Modi stated there was evidence of air embolus...but conveniently decides its irrelevant

 

[CS2C]

I think it's just an odd thing to say personally. Why even mention the pyjamas unless trying to make a point that she was somehow hard done by? The prosecution have looked at the tape and she was taken away, fully clothed, in a blue lee cooooper leisure suit. That's the point they are making imo.

It's worth mentioning for clarity that the word pyjamas doesn't feature in any other sentence, it's not like he was asking her how she was dressed, she just volunteered that detail.

 

[Parker Knoll]

That’s the Chester arrest though, she didn’t go back to her home again after that as her dad went for her personal belongings and she was bailed to Hereford.
If she has got a nighty on under the dressing gown from the final arrest then technically she could say for that arrest yes she was however NJ wasn’t talking about that arrest so it’s all just for effect surely ?
Poor me.

 

[Sweeper2000]

I think it's just an odd thing to say personally. Why even mention the pyjamas unless trying to make a point that she was somehow hard done by? The prosecution have looked at the tape and she was taken away, fully clothed, in a blue lee cooooper leisure suit. That's the point they are making imo.

Maybe just maybe she was trying to articulate the shock at the dawn raid and shock/trauma on her and family using the pyjamas as an illustration of it but actually missing out the important bits. Kind 9f lost in translation as she's just not that good at it. Well within the bounds of normal human experience. She seems that type, gets flustered and just says things without thinking slightly neurotic.

Maybe also she had the dressing gown on as she wasn't thinking straight as she'd only been up so long and probably wasn't over the raid at dawn tactic by the police.

 

[CS2C]

That’s the Chester arrest though, she didn’t go back to her home again after that as her dad went for her personal belongings and she was bailed to Hereford.
If she has got a nighty on under the dressing gown from the final arrest then technically she could say for that arrest yes she was however NJ wasn’t talking about that arrest so it’s all just for effect surely ?
Poor me.

Oh of course, yes this was in relation to the first arrest, the pyjama comment.

 

[WaneLyrical]

I think it's just an odd thing to say personally. Why even mention the pyjamas unless trying to make a point that she was somehow hard done by? The prosecution have looked at the tape and she was taken away, fully clothed, in a blue lee cooooper leisure suit. That's the point they are making imo.

It's worth mentioning for clarity that the word pyjamas doesn't feature in any other sentence, it's not like he was asking her how she was dressed, she just volunteered that detail.

She was making the point that she wasn’t given the courtesy of being allowed to get dressed. If she were innocent, why wouldn’t she make that point.

 

[CS2C]

She was dressed though?
You don't think she sleeps in a Lee Cooper leisure suit in the height of summer do you?

 

[JosieJo]

I would give very good money to see these droves of "eminent" experts (who have based their opinions on half a story imo) cross examined in court

 

[CS2C]

She even wears it out and about

 

[WaneLyrical]

She was dressed though?
You don't think she sleeps in a Lee Cooper leisure suit in the height of summer do you?

As a woman, if someone knocks my door unexpectedly at 6am, I do not open it in my nightie. I chuck on whatever is the closest thing to me, to protect my modesty, so I can open the door. I do not describe that as “getting dressed”. I didn’t put fresh knickers on, I simply “covered up” to answer the door.

And if someone asked me to describe that arrest, I’d make the point that they didn’t even let me get changed.