GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[Sweeper2000]

I don’t want to see the photograph, I’m not saying they should release a photo to the public, I’m not sure why you’ve interpreted my comment that way. I’m saying this would be photographic evidence of a tube removal by Letby.

By the word materiel i thought you meant should have been presented as standard. Also why without seeing it would you think it doesnt exist?

 

[WaneLyrical]

By the word materiel i thought you meant should have been presented as standard. Also why without seeing it would you think it doesnt exist?

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, it clearly exists, it was put into a Mother’s Day card.

I’m saying that, if what is being suggested here is true, that Letby deliberately deprived a baby of oxygen for a non-clinical reason, then this is material evidence of wrongdoing. But yet, it’s nowhere to be seen in the case against her, and despite the police having now investigated it, it’s not enough to persuade the CPS.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Meanwhile, over at the awful LucyLetbyTrials Reddit... We have had "escape goats", but now we also have "espace goats"!!!
View attachment 642549

It's utter garbage, regurgitated time and time again by morons. The state of the unit has been done ad-infinitum and categorically NOT related in any way to these deaths and injuries! Even if the staff were plodging (there's a fine Geordie word, for ya!) about in raw sewage, that wouldn't cause traumatic internal damage to babies!

The people on these discussions, especially the FB ones, are looking to prove innocence, rather than applying the evidence that was presented in court. That is NOT how one goes about investigating - or re-investigating - crimes.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I would very much like to understand her motives for doing what she did, and I appreciate that this is less important than understanding the how, but it was fascinating to learn about the ways in which she would almost wallow or indulge herself in the aftermath of the babies' deaths. Ruminating and fixating on the tragedy of it all. Maybe that's all the motive necessary for some types of personality - and specifically some types of disordered personality.

I hadn't seen any of the interviews with her or really had a chance to see her demeanour in action until I watched the Netflix doc and saw the difference between the articulate professional actively demonstrating her competence and skills, and the quieter "I don't remember" persona. Contrast that articulate professional with the girlish / tween age vibe she seemed to prefer at home and it's really quite jarring.

Maybe once the drama has died down, she'll look for new ways to get attention and maybe that'll come in the form of a tell all interview where she explains what she did and why. I doubt it, but you can only hope.

We will 100% never know this.

It's been my assertion for a long time that even Lucy Letby doesn't know why she did what she did.

I don't think prisoners have ever been allowed to give interviews about their from UK prisons. Although I stand to be corrected there. Given that she's never getting out, I very much doubt we'll see or hear anything from her. Anyway, like I say, even if she does, I don't think she even knows why she did it or will eve know.

 

[Marantz4250b]

She didn't remove the breathing equipment for cleaning, she removed it for a photoshoot, which is illegal. Period. It's also deeply, deeply creepy.

Your last sentence is simply a flat out lie with no sources. Multiple people who knew her described her as aggressive, hostile, or odd.

She absolutely perfectly fits the profile of a female serial killer - someone who cannot connect with others, with no dating history, who has a history of inappropriate behaviour, and commits murders via a caring role.

The three separate people who walked in on her standing over a baby in distress (two of whom experienced her anger). There's no justification for that.

To be fair, it would seem that there were far more people who thought she was utterly lovely than those who thought she was really odd and weird.

Personally, I don't think she fits the profile of a female serial killer; sure, she seemed to have no dating history, but she was clearly extremely social and seemed to have a wide circle of friends. She certainly wasn't the typical wall-flower type by any description.

A point I made at the very start of this (well, 2020, when she was actually charged) was that all of her photos that we had at the time were taken by other people who were clearly friends in social situations such as pubs and suchlike. And these were very likely photos which were snatched from her friends social media profiles such as Facebook. People don't generally post pictures of people they dislike.

Having said all that, female serial killers are extremely rare and there doesn't seem to be much similarity between them, tbh.

This is why I find her so fascinating; she had literally everything anyone her age could ever want. Every door was open to her, she was educated, articulate, had a good and financially stable family background, good work ethic, was in a secure job, and was decidedly easy on the eye. Odds are that her plan was to marry a doctor (I think she even wrote that in her diary at some point) and I'm sure she could have done that without too much trouble.

 

[Sarahlou]

We will 100% never know this.

It's been my assertion for a long time that even Lucy Letby doesn't know why she did what she did.

I don't think prisoners have every been allowed to give interviews about their from UK prisons. Although I stand to be corrected there. Given that she's never getting out, I very much doubt we'll see or hear anything from her. Anyway, like I say, even if she does, I don't think she even knows why she did it or will eve know.

Exactly what I think. I think she just felt a strong desire to do what she did, but she wouldn't be able to explain why.
Not that I think she'd ever admit to what she's done anyway.

 

[Anxala]

Just my two pennies but i feel actual pain for the parents that thought positively of letby. I couldnt dream of a bigger betrayal and the sheer degree of harm that that total flip of perspective would cause. Its one of teh worst things about this.

I bet they are the most lovely, non judgemental people as well.

And that they're now being more or less written off on here as just the hysterical product of a witch hunt.

It's stomach churning, for sure, that their experiences and feelings are being dismissed so casually, all in the name of head-in-sand callous defending of poor lucy letby.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Exactly that and put better than i did.

 

[Anxala]

Exactly that and put better than i did.

You put it fine, Sweeper.

At least for those of us who actually care about the impact all this deliberately cruel, dismissive but most importantly deeply ignorant 'witch hunt' pro-letby narrative is likely having on the parents.

 

[joltz]

Perhaps. Though I could say the same about people with an interest in true crime, sufficient to visit online crime forums, that unconscious bias may exist.

For me, when I stand back from this case, I don’t accept that Letby was “beige”. She was literally a goody two shoes, head girl at school, well respected member of staff. When she wasn’t ’killing babies’ she was salsa dancing, buying her first home, and getting together with her friends. The press have found exactly zero skeletons in her closet, and on the contrary we’ve had all the women who have been closest to her, throughout her entire education and career, speak out to say “this person is the exact opposite of what she’s being painted as”.

All of the spooky strands of evidence need to come together to paint this big picture. Yet each strand is nonsense on its own. Who cares about Facebook searches. If she hadn’t searched any of these families, people would be questioning why she’d searched thousands of families, but not these specific ones. That would become suspicious. If she had hundreds of handover sheets, but zero relating to this sample of patients, again that would be used against her. If she was a lesbian, we’d be hearing she was in love with Ventress. We’ve got notes ranging from: I didn’t; I did; maybe I did; I don’t know if I did. And that’s somehow a “confession” because she wrote the words on purpose.

This person, where we can find not a single other to say a true bad word about her, except maybe the person who didn’t sign off her placement as her displays of empathy weren’t subjectively sufficient, is seemingly a mastermind criminal underneath, employing all these methods to murder which leave little or no trace. In fact, she seems to have got air embolism down to such a fine art that she can attack in a way where it appears immediately, or 20 minutes later, and always produces different results. Someone so psychopathic, that they can attack a baby in the morning, organise a housewarming party at lunchtime, then attack another in the afternoon. Someone so intuitive, that they know when a line is going to tissue, and they poison the perfect number of bags in advance. But not psychopathic enough to genuinely stalk these families, or join grief forums to revel, or google a single thing.

And we must believe that Ravi Jayaram had a psychic experience while he was sat outside of nursery 1, that a pull from beyond the veil helped him catch a murderess in the act at the perfect moment. As opposed to him subconsciously hearing the alarm beeping through the wall briefly before being switched off, and him getting up in response. It’s absurd.

Dewi was clearly biased, he came on board knowing a single nurse was under suspicion, and handed a file showing what appeared to be physical assault. His mind was made up for him. He didn’t even need the maternity notes, he knew this was cold-blooded murder.

Those who have since reviewed the files are critical of them being incomplete, reflective of a unit run off its feet. A unit with ingress of wastewater and no paper trail. Just because they can’t now find the exact causes of death, doesn’t mean the only remaining possibility is murder.

We are to believe that the increased stillbirths which happened at exactly the same time as there murders, were just an unfortunate coincidence. And nothing to do with the state of the unit or the fact that the consultants’ time was consistently concentrated in the paediatric unit.

I believe a case has been constructed against Letby, for crimes that do not exist. I believe the entire case is an illusion, the horror equivalent to the white or blue dress. 4000 babies reviewed, and they can’t get a single other purported crime through the CPS’s evidence test. So we must accept she just snapped one day, came into work, and started murdering babies.

I don’t think anyone set out to deliberately scapegoat her, but this case has every hallmark of a witch hunt.

I don't really care that theres apparently no skeletons in Letby's closet. There doesn't need to be. We have plenty of information about her already, with additional things coming to light through thirlwall. There was already enough evidence available to show how and potentially why Letby did this. Not everyone that commits horrendous crimes has an easily explainable motive. Often they dont necessarily understand themselves why they have committed these crimes. This is why I don't understand McDonald claiming there isn't a motive and it's another reason why shes innocent. A motive isn't even a prerequisite to prove murder. There's hundreds of posts from people all poring over Letbys possible motivations. The police certainly believed she had one.

Theres been plenty of people that have said bad things about Letby. There's also many unsubstantiated claims from people floating about online. Letby didn't need to be a criminal mastermind to do what she did. The setting itself, gives access to life threatening drugs, life and death scenarios and Letby was trusted. No one would suspect that the nurse taking care of the babies was harming them. She knew the ward and her colleagues well. She was also working the nightshift, where it was quieter. It's already proven that Letby was there alone with the babies immediately before the collapses in many instances. For the rest of them attacks, she had either given medication or was in the room but not seen. Once again, if someone wanted to do what she did, it would not be difficult. Why do you think none of these healthcare killers are ever seen committing these crimes. Look back over a list of healthcare killers and none of them were criminal masterminds.

 

[JosieJo]

I don't understand why people do not understand the concept of unusual or unexpected collapse / death. It simple.. babies (and adults) follow certain patterns of deterioration depending on their illness..even premature babies. Particularly when it comes to infections, pneumonia, NEC etc . It's very different and easily distinguished from medical errors or disease mismanagement.

There is no reason to believe these cases were cherry picked to fit Letby. In fact from what the police tell us they did just the opposite.

It's very understandable that parents who have had babies die at COCH will be very worried that purposeful harm came to their child. BUT it is not the job of the police to investigate on the request of parents without very clear evidence from them . The correct procedure is if there are any suspicions then the coroner can request the police.

 

[JosieJo]

Regarding motive and of course this is nothing more than my opinion...but I feel she just used the babies to either get her own way , or as to a reaction to her emotions such as anger or jealousy or boredom.
A spoilt princess who had an awful way of getting her own way.
I cannot forget her attacking a baby minutes after her Dr "friend" left the unit to have a coffee with a female colleague..or when the nurse in charge wouldn't pander to her request to work in room one