GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[Parker Knoll]

This running commentary from Vera is annoying to be honest … why is Letby being given preferential treatment ?
She can sit in the queue like everyone else.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Just spotted this...

"The good news is Letby waived privilege in December, despite being asked to in February. This is going to get interesting"

https://twitter.com/x/status/2022285220343386521

Wow!

Waived privilege.

Agreed - going to get interesting. We'll find out just why her experts weren't called, I suspect.

I reckon her fans are going to be deserting her in droves very soon.

 

[Ruthbullock]

She had ample opportunity to say she had been taking them home in order for her to compile her grievance when she was on the stand … she was asked many times why.
Her answer as we all know was “ I collect paper “
Literally from the horses mouth was no mention of any grievance procedure why she had them.

Maybe that is the reason, I offered a couple more logical reasons- not stating any are more or less likely, just that we don’t know the answer in reality. You want to share it indicates her guilt and believe only people who murder would keep them. IMO it proves neither guilt nor innocence and whilst two stories were shared in court- I have no reason to be convinced by either of them as evidence of very much.

 

[Ruthbullock]

My last paragraph wasn't incorrect in any way. I don't think McDonald cares that some random person online is analysing it, after the fact.

The point which you seemed to have completely missed, is that the press conference was presented live without the ability to question any of the ridiculous claims made. It was also attended by a group of journalists sympathetic to the cause, who were given free reign to ask, imo, pre determined questions.

So which press were not invited? It was broadcast live on all the main news channels. Are you suggesting all of the UK broadcasters were sympathetic to the cause prior to the revelations in the press conference? In your opinion they could only ask pre determined questions - on what basis can you possibly know that, and even if that were the case, again contradicting your point about the news conference restricting discussion- the press then openly published articles discussing it regardless of their narrative of guilty or innocent. Articles were shared from both sides. No journalist was excluded and that is the point it was aired with very limited opportunity for discussion to every journalist in real time contract however they wanted to, some with scorn, some with support - how do you believe they should have shared it? By doing a 121 with Liz Hull for her podcast?

 

[Ruthbullock]

dbm

 

[Ruthbullock]

When you say the 250 were stretched over her career...obviously the first one as a student was a single keepsake ..but the rest when did the main collection begin ?

If you search on most nursing forums- they are told to keep them to document and write up their evidence to pass (or fail) training units- so in many ways it’s also one of those blurred lines in a work environment- you can take them home when you need them to write up your latest assessment, but then quickly get out of the habit of doing that (unless you might do a course later on where they may be useful as evidence).

 

[Ruthbullock]

Doesn't that just make it weirder she kept them? More housemoves and more knowingly keeping them? So why

They were at her parents house, we don’t know she ever moved them from there.

 

[Sweeper2000]

They were at her parents house, we don’t know she ever moved them from there.

Handover notes and the shredder were found in her house Ruth. Was covered at trial. It has been a long time though.

To anyone wasnt a picture of her shredder in the recent Netflix documentary?

 

[Ruthbullock]

Nurse handover notes in a hospital are structured, detailed summaries designed to transfer critical information during shift changes or patient moves. They include very private information on each patient, including identification, medical history, current clinical condition, medication and treatment plans, any tests pending and safety risks.

The sheets also include Discharge Planning----Estimated discharge date, family issues, or social work involvement. That is very private information.

Why would a hospital accommodate Nurse Lucy's desire to keep all of that very private information for hundreds of babies and their families? A very small fraction of those handover sheets had any record of her shift notes.

It was illegal and dishonest for her to sneak those documents home and hoard them. imo She took a big risk doing so. It shows she was obsessed, imo.

I could be wrong- but we actually don’t know that what you are claiming is fact. The handover records you are referring to are electronically kept on the system. We do not know that Letby printed off the detailed medical documents you describe (and it’s unlikely as I think that narrative would have pushed more -that she was at the end of shift going to static computers and printing off and taking home the information)- we know she kept handover “notes” which at this time in the NHS were usually hand scribbled records of any medical treatment that was relevant which is then (still to this day) verbally passed over to the nurses taking over the shift.

 

[iamshadow21]

Handover notes and the shredder were found in her house Ruth. Was covered at trial. It has been a long time though.

To anyone wasnt a picture of her shredder in the recent Netflix documentary?

Yes, there was.

 

[iamshadow21]

I could be wrong- but we actually don’t know that what you are claiming is fact. The handover records you are referring to are electronically kept on the system. We do not know that Letby printed off the detailed medical documents you describe (and it’s unlikely as I think that narrative would have pushed more -that she was at the end of shift going to static computers and printing off and taking home the information)- we know she kept handover “notes” which at this time in the NHS were usually hand scribbled records of any medical treatment that was relevant which is then (still to this day) verbally passed over to the nurses taking over the shift.

The (redacted) images of the sheets that were evidence at trial that they showed on the recent documentary were printed.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Wane Just so you know aand in response to your repeated use of the words "serial killer" and her behaviour not belonging to one. Not quite sure what kind of picture you have of a serial killer but I don't necessarily picture a monster myself. I also don't take to her having done it for sadistic purposes. If anything I would sway more towards her doing it for self regulatory reasons maybe impulsively.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Rewatching that Netflix doc. Aren't her police interviews interesting? I struggle to see that all the "no comment" responses were nothing of significance. Its definitely like she's hiding something isn't it.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Oh dear mcdonald is selling it. "Absolutely outstandingly and unbelievably almost miraculously a piece was written about the case in the new York Times".

Almost as if that has some bearing on the evidence. That's not impressive at all.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Rewatching that Netflix doc. Aren't her police interviews interesting? I struggle to see that all the "no comment" responses were nothing of significance. Its definitely like she's hiding something isn't it.

I agree.

When she has an answer, such as to the questions about her job, the procedures the unit employs when a particular incident happens, etc, she answers without hesitation and in detail. She clearly knows her job and is good at it.

However, when the difficult questions come up, it's either "no comment" or, "I don't remember". The latter never spoken as confidently as when she does know the answer.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Oh dear mcdonald is selling it. "Absolutely outstandingly and unbelievably almost miraculously a piece was written about the case in the new York Times".

Almost as if that has some bearing on the evidence. That's not impressive at all.

And that piece, as discussed on here, was complete rubbish and factually inaccurate in many areas.

 

[Marantz4250b]

So, before people start shouting that this video is off-topic, it's not, well its main subject is but the point I want to use it to make isn't.

If you go to around 18 mins in, he gets to the real root of why people believe daft conspiracy theories in the face of all rational analysis. They believe them because they want to believe them. People may have differing reasons for that need to believe but it still holds true.

I don't know why people want to believe that the Moon landings never happened. I do get why people will go to extreme lengths to convince themselves that a decent looking, hard working 25 year-old nurse would never want to murder babies, though.

Choosing to believe that Lucy Letby didn't do any if the things she was convicted of in the face of massive amounts of evidence to the contrary is simply not rational.

And the guy doing the video is hilarious - definitely watch his other stuff.

 

[katydid23]

I could be wrong- but we actually don’t know that what you are claiming is fact. The handover records you are referring to are electronically kept on the system.

YES, they are kept in the system electronically. And they are also HANDED OVER to each nurse as she starts her shift.

We do not know that Letby printed off the detailed medical documents you describe (

Who said anything about her printing anything up? They are handed to the staff each shift.

and it’s unlikely as I think that narrative would have pushed more

YES, it's unlikely she printed them up. I agree with you. They were HANDED to her.

-that she was at the end of shift going to static computers and printing off and taking home the information)- we know she kept handover “notes” which at this time in the NHS were usually hand scribbled records of any medical treatment that was relevant which is then (still to this day) verbally passed over to the nurses taking over the shift.

The scribbled notes were often scribbled onto the Handover Sheets, which are the documents she illegally brought home hundreds of times.

I stand by my statement---those sheets she brought home had very personal information about all of the patients and were not allowed to be removed from the facility. And she knew that. imo

 

[Sweeper2000]

I agree.

When she has an answer, such as to the questions about her job, the procedures the unit employs when a particular incident happens, etc, she answers without hesitation and in detail. She clearly knows her job and is good at it.

However, when the difficult questions come up, it's either "no comment" or, "I don't remember". The latter never spoken as confidently as when she does know the answer.

She's also very in a roundabout way around it isn't she? She doesn't flat out say i don't remember but she kinda diverts into i don't remember exactly.

That last bit of her interviews as well. "I've spent many hours questioning you on the murders and attempted murders of 17 babies Lucy which you have completely denied. Do you have anything you wish to say?" Her reply which is flat "no comment". Its not even i didnt do it, I couldn't do it, I don't know what happened and its killing me i wish I did know etc but no nothing its just flat as a pancake and seemingly without feeling for the situation.

That is remarkable.

 

[WaneLyrical]

Wane Just so you know aand in response to your repeated use of the words "serial killer" and her behaviour not belonging to one. Not quite sure what kind of picture you have of a serial killer but I don't necessarily picture a monster myself. I also don't take to her having done it for sadistic purposes. If anything I would sway more towards her doing it for self regulatory reasons maybe impulsively.

i use serial killer because she’s a convicted serial killer. I don’t believe she is one. It’s not a question of is Lucy Letby guilty or innocent, I don’t think that question exists, because I don’t think deliberate harm has been done.

As always, I’ll caveat it by saying it all mostly comes down to the insulin evidence for me. For that, I’d like to see a larger sample of results from premature babies with hypoglycaemia. I do not want to see a graph of fasting samples from adults.

Nothing else in this case stands up to scrutiny. That’s why people end up arguing about handover sheets and text messages.

In terms of Letby being a monster, if I was to “believe” in Letby’s guilt, I would think she’d be doing it to get work experience for emergency nursing situations. I don’t even know what sort of personality you’d be dealing with in that scenario.