GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[joltz]

Lucy Letby used "air embolism" on an answer in her QIS training, which she completed, 2 weeks before Baby A’s death - the training was May 2015.

The QIS training is intensive care training, meaning she could work with sicker children and handle Long Line / Central IVs (hence the air embolism answer to a question - as central lines go very near to the heart) - it was after this training and her gaining access to IV lines that the mottling rashes / crashes started. Letby did not have this type of access to high dependency babies before this training in 2015.

Over a year later on 23/24 June 2016, 2/3 triplets, in Letby's care, die in very unusual circumstances. These would be the last deaths on the unit. Over the previous year, there had been 13 deaths on the unit. The average over the previous 5 years was 2 or 3 deaths. None of them had been suspicious.

On June 30th 2016, less than a week after the deaths of the two triplets, Dr Ravi Jayaram sent an email to his colleagues sharing the Lee & Tanswell air embolism paper at 8:30am. This was the first mention by any of the staff in relation to air embolism.

At 3pm on the same day, Lucy Letby submitted a Datix about the potential for an air embolism, due to bungs.

Letby filed this datix, after Dr A, tipped her off that there was suspicions about the deaths of the 2 triplets and it would probably go to an inquest.

She also filed another Datix that same day stating that Baby O lost peripheral access during resus and equipment required during resuscitation to establish intraosseus access was not available on the unit.

At trial the staff working on the resuscitation of Baby O testified that he never lost peripheral access, and his records do not show that either.

Why would she be filing two Datix records nearly a week after the incidents, after she got word that the doctor felt the death of the babies concerned was odd.

After she was arrested Letby was asked if she knew about air embolisms.
She denied to police that she knew what an air embolism was. She then, claimed she didn't know it could happen in babies (she said she thought it only could happen in adults).

 

[joltz]

Lucy Letby used "air embolism" on an answer in her QIS training, which she completed, 2 weeks before Baby A’s death - the training was May 2015.

The QIS training is intensive care training, meaning she could work with sicker children and handle Long Line / Central IVs (hence the air embolism answer to a question - as central lines go very near to the heart) - it was after this training and her gaining access to IV lines that the mottling rashes / crashes started. Letby did not have this type of access to high dependency babies before this training in 2015.

Over a year later on 23/24 June 2016, 2/3 triplets, in Letby's care, die in very unusual circumstances. These would be the last deaths on the unit. Over the previous year, there had been 13 deaths on the unit. The average over the previous 5 years was 2 or 3 deaths. None of them had been suspicious.

On June 30th 2016, less than a week after the deaths of the two triplets, Dr Ravi Jayaram sent an email to his colleagues sharing the Lee & Tanswell air embolism paper at 8:30am. This was the first mention by any of the staff in relation to air embolism.

At 3pm on the same day, Lucy Letby submitted a Datix about the potential for an air embolism, due to bungs.

Letby filed this datix, after Dr A, tipped her off that there was suspicions about the deaths of the 2 triplets and it would probably go to an inquest.

She also filed another Datix that same day stating that Baby O lost peripheral access during resus and equipment required during resuscitation to establish intraosseus access was not available on the unit.

At trial the staff working on the resuscitation of Baby O testified that he never lost peripheral access, and his records do not show that either.

Why would she be filing two Datix records nearly a week after the incidents, after she got word that the doctor felt the death of the babies concerned was odd.

After she was arrested Letby was asked if she knew about air embolisms.
She denied to police that she knew what an air embolism was. She then, claimed she didn't know it could happen in babies (she said she thought it only could happen
in adults).

 

[Marantz4250b]

And, no one should ever forget that, Lucy Letby was not simply picked at random to be thrown under the bus as an attempt to hide alleged hospital management or doctors failings in causing these deaths and injuries when they thought they couldn't hide it any longer.

It's on record, and beyond any doubt, that consultants were raising concerns about her well before the police were ever involved. The only reason the police weren't involved sooner was because her friends in management pushed back against it. If management had been compliant then she would have been arrested far sooner - almost certainly saving lives.

No one suddenly realised one day that more babies than normal were dying (see my sig on those points) which caused the hospital to scrabble around for a sacrifice. That's the myth that the media still trots out. Lets face it, if that were the case then she is literally the very last one you'd chose to take the fall, for the precise reasons that people are screaming for her innocence today! Anyone choosing her as the one to throw to the Lions wouldn't be bright enough to come up with such a elaborate plot of lies and evidence planting to be able to get away with it over a nine month trial and nearly another month of jury deliberations!

If this is all a fit-up, then whoever planned it is quite literally the most fiendish criminal genius in all recorded history!

 

[Sweeper2000]

To be honest I think allot of her lies point at a strong self centredness. For instance the air embolism lie, she's made out like she doesn't know what it is etc but has failed to reference that against what other people know and when they discuss it and the way it nakes her look. Its almost like she's just thinking "ive said it and they have to accept it" or she's just failed to see how an enormous lie like that makes her look. Or she just thinks everyone is like her and she doesn't know what an air embolism is, which we believe ofc.

 

[WaneLyrical]

S

To be honest I think allot of her lies point at a strong self centredness. For instance the air embolism lie, she's made out like she doesn't know what it is etc but has failed to reference that against what other people know and when they discuss it and the way it nakes her look. It’s almost like she's just thinking "ive said it and they have to accept it" or she's just failed to see how an enormous lie like that makes her look. Or she just thinks everyone is like her and she doesn't know what an air embolism is, which we believe ofc.

She never made out she didn’t know what air embolism was. She was in the process of being asked about all the nursing training she’d done, and was asked if she’d done air embolism training and what she knew about that. Knowing “air in lines is bad because air embolism” is not the same as having had specific training, or knowing the effects on the body or the symptoms. When she talked about adults, she explained she was talking about pulmonary embolism. She also answered no to “insulin training”.

 

[joltz]

S

She never made out she didn’t know what air embolism was. She was in the process of being asked about all the nursing training she’d done, and was asked if she’d done air embolism training and what she knew about that. Knowing “air in lines is bad because air embolism” is not the same as having had specific training, or knowing the effects on the body or the symptoms. When she talked about adults, she explained she was talking about pulmonary embolism. She also answered no to “insulin training”.

Letby was asked directly by the police if she was aware of them, after she was asked if she did any training in relation to them.

She answered "no, not really" she then backtracked and claimed she knew of them in relation to adults.

But then said she was only aware of them in relation to pulmonary embolism. So again, apparently not aware of air embolisms


But she knew exactly what they were. She filed a Datix about them. She filed it on the day she found out about the Drs concerns regarding them in relation to the triplets.

So she most definitely wasn't being truthful to the police.

 

[WaneLyrical]

Letby was asked directly by the police if she knew what an air embolism was. She answered "no, not really" she then backtracked and claimed she knew of them in relation to adults.



She also said she was only aware of them in relation to pulmonary embolism



But she knew exactly what they were. She filed a Datix about them. She filed it on the day she found out about the Drs concerns regarding them in relation to the triplets.

She most definitely wasn't being truthful to the
police.

Did you receive any training on air embolism?
No
“Ok, were you aware of them, or?”
Not really, no
Have you heard of them before?
Yes

Within this interview had she not already been accused of “injecting air down an NG tube”? Which is not something any nurse pre-Dewi Evans would ever associate with “air embolism”.

Have you come across it on the neonatal unit?
No

It’s only a “lie” when looked at retrospectively from a position of assumed guilt. It doesn’t do anything to establish her guilt in the first place.

 

[Sweeper2000]

That's enough of a lie. Its also contradictory. "Aware of them" ie knows not what to do when it comes to making Sure she doesn't accidentally give a patient one. Air embolism training for a level three nurse is also routine as far as I have read, why the police didnt pull her training on it or consult other staff members on the same matter is anyone's guess. She doesn't need a doctorate in the subject to be aware of them. Its just another questionably vague answer from her.

Eta
Air embolism training comes as standard when administering tpn, long line, central lines and iv or arterial lines. All things well known in trial.

 

[joltz]

Did you receive any training on air embolism?
No
“Ok, were you aware of them, or?”
Not really, no
Have you heard of them before?
Yes

Within this interview had she not already been accused of “injecting air down an NG tube”? Which is not something any nurse pre-Dewi Evans would ever associate with “air embolism”.

Have you come across it on the neonatal unit?
No

It’s only a “lie” when looked at retrospectively from a position of assumed guilt. It doesn’t do anything to establish her guilt in the first place.

She was asked if she was aware of them and she said no, not really.

She then said she had heard of them but in relation to pulmonary embolism.

But we know she was definitely aware of them because she was filing datix about them.

What don't you understand about this?

The situation where she filed the datix was also highly unusual. Hours after the first discussion around air embolism starts between the consultants, she files the datix, about the bung. And then she files another in relation to baby O.

 

[WaneLyrical]

That's enough of a lie. Its also contradictory. "Aware of them" ie knows not what to do when it comes to making Sure she doesn't accidentally give a patient one. Air embolism training for a level three nurse is also routine as far as I have read, why the police didnt pull her training on it or consult other staff members on the same matter is anyone's guess. She doesn't need a doctorate in the subject to be aware of them. Its just another questionably vague answer from her.

Eta
Air embolism training comes as standard when administering tpn, long line, central lines and iv or arterial lines. All things well known in trial.

There is no air embolism training, that’s the point. They were sitting with her training record in front of them.

 

[WaneLyrical]

She was asked if she was aware of them and she said no, not really.

She then said she had heard of them but in relation to pulmonary embolism.

But we know she was definitely aware of them because she was filing datix about them.

What don't you understand about this?

The situation where she filed the datix was also highly unusual. Hours after the first discussion around air embolism starts between the consultants, she files the datix, about the bung. And then she files another in relation to baby O.

She was talking about things that had happened on the unit. She said she only knew of some mums who’d been unwell and it turned out to the PE. She didn’t pretend she’d never been told about the dangers of air in lines as part of probably every training she’s ever done in her whole career.

The datix, you’re confusing two things. She was contacted by a nurse who said “doctor told me about open bung” to which Letby responded something like “I already told her about it that night”, and then she proceeded to do the datix for it as clearly nobody else had. She did it on 30th which was the day after the datix for the death had been done.

 

[Sweeper2000]

There is no air embolism training, that’s the point. They were sitting with her training record in front of them.

Where did you get the idea they had her training record? First I've heard of it.