GUILTY UK - Nurse Lucy Letby, murder of babies, 7 Guilty of murder verdicts; 8 Guilty of attempted murder; 2 Not Guilty of attempted; 5 hung re attempted #38

[WaneLyrical]

She was being directly asked if she knew about air embolisms.



"And what about air embolisms, Lucy, did you receive any training in relation to those?"



"No"



"Okay, were you aware of them"



"Not really, no"



But she was aware of them wasn't she, she had been filing datix about the potential for them happening. She answered questions about them in her training.



She knew exactly what an air embolism was and she knew about the dangers of them. It was part of her training. Every nurse knows about them.



Letbys evasiveness over perfectly reasonable questions is alarming.



And in regards to the bung. Letby is the source for this. She told the Dr, who told the nurse, who text Letby. It all goes back to Letby.

No other person involved saw a missing bung.

If Letby did apparently see a missing bung, why did she wait 7 days to file a datix on it?


If Letby did apparently see a missing bung, why didn't she mention it in the reminder note that she wrote to herself, about the 2 datix, she went on to submit.
Not a single mention of the apparent missing bung she found, which could cause an air embolism. Instead she waits 7 days to do so, and does it on the same day she finds out about the consultants concerns.

I see you missed out the word “or” there. The police said; “ok, were you aware of them, or”

And she replied: “not really, no”

She then answers about what she’s experienced on the unit, having already said there no training on air embolism.

This missing bung? What is your suggestion here? That she told the doctor about it with the intention it was going to be kept secret between them, and only when it wasn’t was she forced to submit a datix?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Think your either deliberately eluding the point or missing it. Air embolism training comes as standard for the level she's at. Its an inherent part of iv, central etc line training. No way she didnt know all there was to know about it

 

[WaneLyrical]

Think your either deliberately eluding the point or missing it. Air embolism training comes as standard for the level she's at. Its an inherent part of iv, central etc line training. No way she didnt know all there was to know about it

Right, exactly. She also answered no to “insulin training”, but we all know that also forms part of general training. And prior to getting to these questions, she’d already outlined the training she’s received.

Obviously she doesn’t know “all there is to know” about air embolism, I think it’s pretty clear nobody does given the absolute mess of this case. Nurses know to ensure air doesn’t get inside the circulation, probably learned it on Day 1, I doubt many of them could offer any further expertise on it.

 

[Baileyboo]

Letby received additional training on giving medication through lines, a few weeks before baby A. Part of this training was about the dangers of air embolism, Letby had documented this in her work book.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Right, exactly. She also answered no to “insulin training”, but we all know that also forms part of general training. And prior to getting to these questions, she’d already outlined the training she’s received.

Obviously she doesn’t know “all there is to know” about air embolism, I think it’s pretty clear nobody does given the absolute mess of this case. Nurses know to ensure air doesn’t get inside the circulation, probably learned it on Day 1, I doubt many of them could offer any further expertise on it.

Yeh gain i think your missing it. I meant all there is to know from a nurses pov. Obviously all the ins and outs aren't relevant but a applicable clinical level if knowledge would have been mandatory at her level. Saying you don't really know anything about a subject you know 98% of is Obviously suspicious in this context. She even if being honest doesn't fill in the blanks here either ie " i know to clear the lines, I know how dangerous it is, I know its routine practice to avoid doing such things, clamp the lines, tap the lift the syringe to remove all air and etc" to assume its a request for complete knowledge is just ridiculous. She's very knowledgeable about everything else and forthcoming with it but not about that so why? Same with the insulin

 

[joltz]

I see you missed out the word “or” there. The police said; “ok, were you aware of them, or”

And she replied: “not really, no”

She then answers about what she’s experienced on the unit, having already said there no training on air embolism.

This missing bung? What is your suggestion here? That she told the doctor about it with the intention it was going to be kept secret between them, and only when it wasn’t was she forced to submit a datix?

I see you missed out the word “or” there. The police said; “ok, were you aware of them, or”

And she replied: “not really, no”

She then answers about what she’s experienced on the unit, having already said there no training on air embolism.

This missing bung? What is your suggestion here? That she told the doctor about it with the intention it was going to be kept secret between them, and only when it wasn’t was she forced to submit a datix?

"Ok were you aware of them, or"

That is the police asking if Letby was aware of them

The "them" the police are referring to are air embolisms

"Not really, no"

So that is Letby answering, not really, no in relation to whether she was aware of air embolisms.

She was definitely aware of them, so she was being dishonest.

We know this because of evidence. Evidence such as the datix she filed about them, showing not only was she very aware of them, but she had actually managed to link them to the death of baby O, before even the consultants had done.

That's just how aware of them she was. She is the first person to even mention air embolism about one of the deaths, that would later be attributed to them.

Hows that for a coincidence?

Letby didn't datix the incident straight away though, she decided to leave it for 7 days. She can't have been too concerned about it. Yet when she filed the datix she did it with the very obvious suggestion that baby O may have suffered an air embolism.

There was no urgency by Letby to send a datix for something she apparently believed may have caused the death of baby O.

But all of that changed after baby P died. Letby was removed from the ward and her text messages show she was starting to panic that she was under suspicion. We know that Eirian Powell was CC'd in the email from the consultants about air embolisms, so she may have told Letby. Either way it's most definitely not a coincidence that Letby decides to file the datix suggesting air embolism on the same day that the consultants realise this may be the cause of death.

She was displaying guilty knowledge and she needed to officially cover her back. She filed the datix as an allibi, but she probably didn't think through the implications.

Letby knew it was an air embolism, because she inflicted it. She needed to give a reason for why an air embolism was not deliberate

Oh and btw, bungs and extensions fall off from iv devices all the time and they do not cause air embolisms. But, if you had recently completed a course which covers air embolism, and you saw an open port, for a baby which then collapsed and died, you would Datix it on the spot, absolutely immediately. It's completely alien to do a Datix for this a week later. Datix should be done immediately, as soon as possible.

 

[WaneLyrical]

it’s a bit of an odd hypothesis. Why on earth, if she’d been using air embolism as a murder method for a long time and hiding it extremely well, would she ever suggest as a cause of death/collapse?

 

[Sweeper2000]

Oh please, to appear innocent or brainy except when it comes to police interviews apparently. What's the confidentiality of a datix anyone's e know?

 

[WaneLyrical]

Oh please, to appear innocent or brainy except when it comes to police interviews apparently. What's the confidentiality of a datix anyone's e know?

To appear brainy?

Why did she tell the doctor about it in the first place? And when?