GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #7

[LadyN]

Even so spreading it out over so far an area seems illogical - for instance within the locality of Bedminster you have the shopping centre in Knowle and the selection of shops around whiteladies road including a Sainsbury. ..

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Illogical is the right word.

 

[Tortoise]

Phew, I've just caught up guys.

Hopefully we will see some more damning evidence in court today!

I just wanted to touch on the (great) post by E-sherlockholmes - the only thing I would dispute is the claim that they probably didn't use the circular saw to dismember Becky when they realised it would be too difficult (other than for the bones). Surely the 'Dismemberment expert' they brought in yesterday & the pathologist would be able to tell the difference between cuts through flesh with knives, and those made by a circular saw? I would imagine a knife would create much more irregular marks? Sorry to be graphic.

It was said that the blade of the circular saw (with the shield that keeps it flat on say a piece of wood if you were sawing through that) wasn't deep enough to get to the bone.

 

[mrazda71]

This Claire Moss is a witness for the prosecution right?

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She is but as a professional she will be giving her professional opinion whether it fits what anyone would like to be the truth is irrelevant.

 

[Callista]

It was said that the blade of the circular saw (with the shield that keeps it flat on say a piece of wood if you were sawing through that) wasn't deep enough to get to the bone.

I remember reading that, but I assumed they still could've cut through the flesh and then the bone too - otherwise how did they cut through the bone with the circular saw unless they cut some of the flesh away to make room (if it wasn't possible to do both)? Was something to that effect part of the expert statement yesterday? Sorry if I'm not making much sense here, my head is swimming with all this information. I can't imagine how the jury feels today.

 

[sar2them1984]

Yes although I don't think she did them any favours yesterday. Hopefully she will be clearer today.

Ha I meant to indicate my sarcasm in that question - she's not helping in any way I think

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[Callista]

UK & Eire database for all crimes against children

Asked if there was any DNA belonging to Becky in the bathroom at Cotton Mill Lane, Morse replied "there was nothing found in, or on, the bathroom".
It doesn't mean she couldn't have been dismembered in the bathroom, it could still have happened, I find it extremely surprising we found no blood in that bathroom, it is a difficult thing to try and clean up from all the nooks and crannies.

This is the part I'm surprised by too ... like cracks in the bath and walls etc ...

Quote from FB page of the above

 

[sar2them1984]

She is but as a professional she will be giving her professional opinion whether it fits what anyone would like to be the truth is irrelevant.

Yes I just find it odd that the prosecution have called her as a witness given the flimsiness of the evidence...

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[Alyce]

Here is a timeline covering the period in which the body dismemberment and disposal must have taken place. It is based on testimony given so far. Largely taken from UK & Eire site. I have changed names to initials.

Fri February 20: 12.20pm - NM buys two bottles of drain cleaner from the Rajani superstore in Bristol.
12.51pm - NM purchases a MacAllister circular power saw, face masks, gloves and goggles from B&Q in Horfield, Bristol.
2.18pm SH texts NM that memory cards and PS4 stickers have arrived
3.10pm - SH texts NM: 'What time do you finish work LOL? Hugs and kisses'.
4pm - Becky's father reports the teenager missing to police.
5:30pm SH puts message on FB “Hi, can you keep an eye out for Becky Watts and if you see her message me because she is missing.”
6.25pm - Police arrive at Becky's home and speak to Mr and Mrs G, NM and SH. The couple claim they heard Becky leave the previous morning.
8.45pm - A Chinese takeaway is ordered to Cotton Mill Lane.
9pm - A device of NM and SH searches 'Do you want to hide a body?' on YouTube.

Sat February 21: NM and SH go to Asda in Bedminster and buy black bags, rubble sacks, rubber gloves, bleach and three rolls of cling film. They purchase £20 of electricity from a local shop.

Sun February 22: NM and SH buy black rubble sacks, tape and a sponge from a 99p store and a Wilko at the Broadmead shopping centre in Bristol city centre, then tape and cling film at Sainsbury's in Brislington.

Mon February 23: Police attempt to enter Cotton Mill Lane but no one answers the door.
4.38pm - A mobile phone belonging to SH and NM searches for 'Find Becky Watts' on Google.
4.40pm - SH rings her estranged mother, LD, and stepfather KS and arranges to visit their home in Wilton Close, Southmead, arriving about 30-40 minutes after the call.
6pm - Detectives return to Cotton Mill Lane but NM and SH are not at home. They speak to the pair at Wilton Close.
SH agrees police can search their home the following day.
Tues February 24: NM/SH leave Wilton Close in the early hours and were given a lift home by a friend.
In the early hours, KD and JI borrow a van from their work in Filton.
1.10am KD got a message from JP saying: "Ah ok you going to hide it for him? We could do with the money. lol. xxxx."
1.18am JP sent another which said: "Cool, that's a deposit on the house. lol."
2.19am - CCTV shows a van moving between Cotton Mill Lane and Barton Court, with light coming on by the garden shed.
2.31am - The white van is seen heading back towards JI and KD's work in Filton
9:36am NM texts AG saying "Hi, just thought I would update you, police have searched S's house and obviously found nothing. Hope you are all managing as best as possible, I will see you tomorrow."

Thanks for this great timeline Clio

So on Friday Feb 20, NM and SH did not get back to CML until 8.30 ish and then ordered a takeaway.
And it was not until Saturday that they bought the rubbish sacks, which makes me think nothing was done in respect of Becky's body until this time, when they had the bags to use as lining or protection in whatever way needed.
Plus the electricity top up is purchased on the Saturday - another pointer towards when the work was done.

Sunday is the clean up sponge purchase and more rubbish sacks. I note also that every log has called them rubble sacks, so I am wondering if they are in fact the very large, extra heavy duty, sacks, similar to what a builder would use, rather than the thinner plastic stuff that people generally use for their household rubbish.

Re the early hours of Tues Feb 24 - I thought it was KD and JI who collected NM and SH from WIlton Close and took them back to CML ?

Interesting texts from JP

 

[sar2them1984]

This is the part I'm surprised by too ... like cracks in the bath and walls etc ...

Quote from FB page of the above

Yes to leave no trace whatsoever is what is really making me question the whole dismemberment in the bathroom.

If there is no evidence to support the theory that Becky was in there (aside from NMs say so) how do we know she actually was??

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[Tortoise]

I remember reading that, but I assumed they still could've cut through the flesh and then the bone too - otherwise how did they cut through the bone with the circular saw unless they cut some of the flesh away to make room (if it wasn't possible to do both)? Was something to that effect part of the expert statement yesterday? Sorry if I'm not making much sense here, my head is swimming with all this information. I can't imagine how the jury feels today.

this is what was reported yesterday

[FONT=open_sans]Using the purchased saw, she demonstrated its operation and said it was much easier to use with two hands.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]She said a cut to Becky's jaw indicated that the saw user had attempted to cut through her neck during dismemberment.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]She said that, due to the maximum depth of the saw blade being 55mm when it was set at 90 degrees, a knife would have been needed to cut through the flesh of the body before the saw was used to dismember it through bone into eight pieces.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]To assist her analysis of the dynamics of the task she sawed through a pig femur, she told the jury.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]She said: "There is no direct evidence that would say this dismemberment was conducted by one or more than one person.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]"However, it would be easier of more than one person was involved, for example to hold the limbs into position for somebody else to cut through.[/FONT]
[FONT=open_sans]"Otherwise the person would have to hold or fix the limbs in order to use the saw two-handed."[/FONT]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ails-Becky-s/story-28012157-detail/story.html
[FONT=open_sans]
That's a pretty unequivocal statement to make.

[/FONT]

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Yes to leave no trace whatsoever is what is really making me question the whole dismemberment in the bathroom.

If there is no evidence to support the theory that Becky was in there (aside from NMs say so) how do we know she actually was??

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If this is the case sar, forensics went through the wrong residence as the crime scene for dismemberment. Is NM protecting someone else? This could clear SH of those relevant charges?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

ITV Becky Trial ‏@ITVBeckyTrial 2m2 minutes ago

Mask DNA results are compatible with SH having handled it, but 'I can't exclude that SH has not handled the mask', witness says

 

[Tortoise]

This is the part I'm surprised by too ... like cracks in the bath and walls etc ...

Quote from FB page of the above

unless they were protected with plastic sheeting / sacks

 

[sar2them1984]

this is what was reported yesterday



http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ails-Becky-s/story-28012157-detail/story.html
[FONT=open_sans]
That's a pretty unequivocal statement to make.

[/FONT]

I really don't wish to be graphic but couldn't it have been done in 2 stages I. E first stage to saw through the flesh in on motion and then second stage through the bone - does that make sense.

I would be impossible to cut right the way through given the depth restrictions of the saw. But if it was done in two parts wouldn't it work that way?

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[Clio]

<snip>
Re the early hours of Tues Feb 24 - I thought it was KD and JI who collected NM and SH from WIlton Close and took them back to CML ?

Possibly however I haven't found any testimony from the trial to corroborate this but I may have missed it.

 

[Callista]

this is what was reported yesterday



http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Becky-...ails-Becky-s/story-28012157-detail/story.html
[FONT=open_sans]
That's a pretty unequivocal statement to make.

[/FONT]

Thank you for that, that's the first time I've seen her statement in that much detail, hence the confusion!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I really don't wish to be graphic but couldn't it have been done in 2 stages I. E first stage to saw through the flesh in on motion and then second stage through the bone - does that make sense.

I would be impossible to cut right the way through given the depth restrictions of the saw. But if it was done in two parts wouldn't it work that way?

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and turned over?

 

[sar2them1984]

If this is the case sar, forensics went through the wrong residence as the crime scene for dismemberment. Is NM protecting someone else? This could clear SH of those relevant charges?

I really don't know. I'm confused. It seems they are basing the whole of the dismemberment site on NMS say so. NO DNA evidence of Becky In bathroom. NO Bloody or other trace evidence tying Becky to the bathroom....

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[PrimeSuspect]

ITV Becky Trial &#8207;@ITVBeckyTrial 1m1 minute ago

DNA could have been transferred because NM and SH lived together - there is 'more opportunity for DNA to transfer' witness says,

 

[ColourPurple]

Sunday is the clean up sponge purchase and more rubbish sacks. I note also that every log has called them rubble sacks, so I am wondering if they are in fact the very large, extra heavy duty, sacks, similar to what a builder would use, rather than the thinner plastic stuff that people generally use for their household rubbish.

I've bought rubble sacks before and the ones I bought were smaller than black bin liners (about half the size) but much thicker and they were bright blue rather than black. They don't rip as easily as black bin liners do, infact you'd probably have to cut them with something sharp rather than rip one.

If they bought them from Asda they were likely these ones. 1120mm x length 660mm

http://groceries.asda.com/product/bin-liners/asda-extra-strong-diy-rubble-sacks/18810123