GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1

[Tortoise]

I've been looking back through the thread to find my pointers that Williams planned to frame Walsh right from the beginning.

I do think SW has used her. I think she planned all along to say it was Kit who murdered Sadie. Got her to buy the knife, go with her to Germany, make contact her ex-husband Kevin Walsh, use her card to buy the trackers, deliver the flowers...and asked her not to write it in her diary. When Kit asked why, she came up with something dumb to appease her, like 'that way it means it didn't happen'.

If this is true then it kind of confirms that Kit was 'stupid' enough to just follow instructions without thinking of consequences or realising she was equally guilty of the crime, and was an easy target for SW.

But she does say something like - I won't be at the sharp end, no moral dilemma, just hope I don't get caught.

GPS alerts sent to email address, court told

[FONT=&amp]Matt Lashley, from Lancashire Police, giving evidence, says users can also draw ‘Geo Zones’ on a map and get alerts when the tracker enters them.
The court hears about two of these zones created for the second device purchased on Mrs Walsh’s credit card.
One simply named ‘Chill’ was created around the Chill Factore in Trafford.
There was another called ‘The Love Shack’ drawn around Mr Johnston’s former address on Holcombe Road in Helmshore.
Mr Lashley says the alerts for these were sent to an email address, which they have established was created in September 2015 at Katrina Walsh’s home address.
All of the subsequent logins to the address have been linked to the server at Sarah Williams home he adds.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11607748[/FONT]

Add to that burying the knife and other evidence at her place of work, and buying her clothing.

Did Williams buy her own men's boots? I think she did.

Yes she did, just checked.

 

[Legally Bland]

I've been looking back through the thread to find my pointers that Williams planned to frame Walsh right from the beginning.

Also, didn't SW wear a scarf covering her face when they brought the Renault Clio, whilst KW was recognisable?

 

[Alyce]

Yes Williams bought the boots


eta ............. Williams bought a phone ( or SIM ) and so did Walsh, so one each...


I am wondering why the very distinctive purple patagonia top was bought and then worn by Williams.
Was she planning to leave this top in Walsh's home afterwards as yet another way to point the finger at Walsh

plus - Walsh went to Williams home on the night of the murder and waited there, while Williams went to Sadie's home.
Was this yet another ploy by Williams, to have Walsh in her ( Williams ) home on that night, so that later, if need be, Williams could say that it was Walsh driving the car back to her ( Williams ) home, while she had been at home all night.

 

[Tortoise]

Also, didn't SW wear a scarf covering her face when they brought the Renault Clio, whilst KW was recognisable?

I thought it was Kit who wore the scarf. Can't be 100% sure.

 

[Tortoise]

Well they got the blood in her bath and on her glasses in her Volvo. I expect she'll say Kit had a bath at her house that evening, and wore her glasses?

 

[Legally Bland]

I thought it was Kit who wore the scarf. Can't be 100% sure.

Yeah, you're right.

Aban Quaynor – ‏@AbanQuaynorLT

Mr Jones said passenger got out covering scarf with face because she had a cold. Prosecutors say that was Walsh. #sadiehartleytrial

7:26 am - 5 Jul 2016

https://mobile.twitter.com/AbanQuaynorLT/status/750335049665576960?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

[jessie]

An article from The Telegraph mentions the letter Williams sent to Mrs Sitiwitjana. Must mean Mrs S. kept the letter - but IIRC she (Mrs S) did make a police complaint about Williams ?


Preston Crown Court today heard Williams had previously sent a letter to the wife of Somapat Sitiwitjana, a martial arts instructor who she enjoyed an "intense, passionate" relationship with between June 2011 and April 2012.

The letter detailed the pair's relationship in full after Williams thought Mr Sitiwitjana, also known as Master A, was cheating on her with a younger woman

The letter began: "Dear Janet, I think you should know about the sort of you are married to." Williams also wrote: "You may think I am a bitter and vengeful b****" and alleged that she was pregnant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-scorned-woman-described-herself-as-a-vengef/

 

[Legally Bland]

An article from The Telegraph mentions the letter Williams sent to Mrs Sitiwitjana. Must mean Mrs S. kept the letter - but IIRC she (Mrs S) did make a police complaint about Williams ?


Preston Crown Court today heard Williams had previously sent a letter to the wife of Somapat Sitiwitjana, a martial arts instructor who she enjoyed an "intense, passionate" relationship with between June 2011 and April 2012.

The letter detailed the pair's relationship in full after Williams thought Mr Sitiwitjana, also known as Master A, was cheating on her with a younger woman

The letter began: "Dear Janet, I think you should know about the sort of you are married to." Williams also wrote: "You may think I am a bitter and vengeful b****" and alleged that she was pregnant.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-scorned-woman-described-herself-as-a-vengef/

BIB. I think that's the most likely explanation, but if it was typed like Sadie's letter it could be possible they found it on Williams's PC hard drive/cloud storage, or similar.

As for the police complaint, I'm guessing they took no action, or we'd have heard about it. Saying that, we're missing a good week or so of reporting on the trial, so maybe it came up.

 

[jessie]

BIB. RSBM

As for the police complaint, I'm guessing they took no action, or we'd have heard about it. Saying that, we're missing a good week or so of reporting on the trial, so maybe it came up.

Found where it was referred to in earlier evidence :

In September 2012, Mrs Sitiwatjana reported Williams to the police with claims that she was harassing her with unwanted texts and visits to her home, where she would 'stare' at her from a car parked on the other side of the road.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4FVVjXVLb

 

[Tortoise]

Any suggestions as to why she explained to the court that she was abducted and assaulted as a child?

It says they didn't catch the perpetrator. I wonder if it really happened. I think David Hardwick mentioned something about that when he first met her, but that doesn't mean she hadn't fabricated it then either.

 

[Legally Bland]

I haven't worked out how to multi-quote, this is in reply to Tortoise.

Williams says she was abducted as childMiss Williams is now recounting an incident when she was 13 years-old when she was knocked off her bike, bundled into a car and abducted.She says she was kept hostage for around six hours and was “physically abused” by a man.She says she was eventually able to raise the alarm after she was dumped on a country lane and taken to Knutsford services around 30 miles away by another man.Mr Cole says the investigation into this was unfruitful and no one was ever arrested.http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11697850

This seems to have been deleted from the MEN article linked.Given the context (the next bit was about meeting Hardwick), I got the impression it was a sort of explanation for her unconventional taste in (the age of her) partners.

I'd normally give someone the benefit of the doubt on this, but I believe she's a cold blooded murderer lying through her teeth.

She gave the impression police were informed, if they have no record...

Maybe cross-ex will make it clearer, but her age at the time may complicate it. Not sure how this works, has she opened the door on this?

IDK, I'm wavering. I think it's probably true.

ETA: or true to some extent.

 

[jessie]

This sounds a very serious attack though surely. A 13 year old girl abducted for several hours and abused then dumped. Would have happened around 1993-ish ??
I even tried googling it as surely it would be in the local press if nothing else but the details are a bit vague so came up zilch (I might have another try though).

Im in two minds as it isn't the sort of thing you'd make up - but on the other hand ......... Idk.

 

[Alyce]

I agree re the abduction at 13. Not something that a person would usually lie about - but at the same time, I am surprised it has been allowed in the evidence.

The Defence seem to have just brought it out as a statement, without developing it further - I wonder if they are going to use it later, as mitigation, if need be.

 

[Alyce]

It would be most interesting to know something of Williams childhood. After the alleged abduction at 13, I wonder how her parents felt about her developing a relationship, at 17, with a 57 year old man.
Also, just reading back through a recap article in the Chester Standard, it is interesting to see how
Williams has an affair with David Hardwick, his wife knows about it and although it is indicated that she is not thrilled, she nevertheless accepts it
Williams has an affair with Mr Sitiwatjana. David Hardwick knows about it and accepts it although it is indicated he is less happy about it as time goes on.

To me, Williams seems to be indicating that others are accepting of her actions, therefore she was not really doing anything wrong.

And, I do find it hard to believe that David Hardwick would be the person to suggest that Williams should let down Mr Sitiwatjana's tyres.


eta - the link to the article ( not really anything new in it, just a recap )

http://chesterstandard.co.uk/news/1...l-jury-she-did-not-murder-her-love-rival.aspx

 

[Alyce]

Trial just started


Sarah Williams resumes her evidence

I’m in Court 5 at Preston Crown Court where the Sadie Hartley murder trial has just resumed.

The defence case is continuing today and evidence will be heard from one of the accused, 35-year-old Sarah Williams.

She is charged with plotting and then killing Sadie Hartley with the help of her friend, and co-accused, Katrina Walsh.

Miss Williams has been brought from the dock and has just entered the witness box.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11703006

 

[Alyce]

Quizzed about pair's trip to Germany

Miss Williams faced the jury when being asked about the reason she and Miss Walsh visited Germany.

Gordon Cole QC asked her about a photograph of her and Miss Walsh on the ferry from Hull to Rotterdam and the purchase of a stun gun and pepper spray in Germany.

Miss Williams said the purpose of going to Germany was to visit a museum and also to go to the Christmas markets.

She said it was Kit’s idea to purchase the stun gun and only became aware of Kit intending to buy it when they were actually in the shop. She said Kit had taken her to the shop.

She told the jury: “It was Kit’s idea to do that.”

When she asked Kit what she had bought it for she claims Kit told her it was good for ‘self defence’.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11703006

 

[Alyce]

Oh here we go ...blame it all on Walsh.

 

[Tortoise]

There is something very odd about her teenage relationships.

She became friends with KW when she was 18 and KW was 39 (first met her when she was 12 and KW was 33). She began an affair with DH when she was 17 and he was 57.

Why would a 12 year old girl meet a 33 year old woman? I'm getting vibes that she was in a care situation, with a need for parent figures, and the abduction tale while on the face of it possibly true, it could also be the product of a fertile imagination, a quest for drama, and a way of attention seeking.

I mean she only goes after men who are not available. That is some sort of a problem right there. And the murder wasn't just a killing, it was frenzied, and I would say most of those stab wounds were gratuitous.

 

[Tortoise]

Wonder how she explains being shown how to use the stun gun. What a ridiculous liar.

 

[Alyce]

Miss Williams: Kit's idea to buy trackers

Miss Williams was asked about watching the programme ‘Hunted’.

She said:

“She (Kit) was very into it and excited by it. I know that she watched some of the episode more than once. It was a bit obsessive. It was excessive and obsessive.”

Miss Williams said she had watched some episodes but they didn’t really interest her.

The purchase of trackers are now being discussed - with two being purchased.

Miss Williams said:

“It was Kit’s idea (to purchase them). She purchased two of them. I wasn’t aware of the first one until after it had been purchased.”

She said Kit told her they were ‘really useful and good for checking what people are or were up to’. But she denied putting one on Ian Johnston’s car or taking one from his car.

Calls were made to the tracker shop from her phone to ‘top it up’ but she denies making a 14-minute call to the shop. But said she did make one call to top it up as she was asked to by Kit.


http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11703006