GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1

[cottonweaver]

I'm not sure what to make of this pair, after what's been aired today.

The murder seems to be the work of a complete psychopath. And yet she loves horses, apparently. Is that not a contradiction? I'm wondering if Walsh is secretly in love with Williams.

From thread page 7

Power & sexuality? I don't necessarily believe that BUT I've heard various things about teen girls psychology & horses before now - for adults I don't know? Just a great hobby?

Anyway:
eg. "To be in control, or out of control, on a galloping horse is a wild feeling," she says. "You are one with it. You just feel the power underneath you. And that's part of the attraction."
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/09/133600424/why-do-girls-love-horses-unicorns-and-dolphins

 

[Cherwell]

Dr Lumb told the jury there were more than 51 injuries in total and there was evidence that the stun gun had been pushed against the left side of Ms Hartley’s head.
She also suffered 24 stab wounds and 17 slash wounds to the face, head, neck, chest, back, arms and right leg.
They included wounds to the depth of nearly 8in (20cm) - up to the hilt of the kitchen knife allegedly used by Williams.

Ms Hartley suffered deep stab wounds to her face, one of which went through her face and out the other side, with a similar wound to her neck, which cut a main artery. There were further injuries to both hands and arms, with the blade going right through her right thumb and right arm, which Dr Lumb said were “typical” defence wounds from fighting off a knife attacker.
He added: “Almost certainly there’s been an effort to defend against a knife attack.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...news/sadie-hartley-died-orgy-demonic-11610893

This is one evil and dangerous creature. Lock her up and throw away the key.

 

[Alyce]

Thankyou, Good link

I didn't u'stand these references I picked up :
Mr Johnston’s former address on Holcombe Road in Helmshore ( no dates)

vs

Hartley met Mr Johnston almost a decade ago and they lived in Mrs Hartley's home in the picture postcard village of Great Budworth, Cheshire. She sold up, 18 months before death , ie.circa summer 2015

So basically, he had a 2nd property during some of that decade's relationship.

I do feel very sorry for IJ, he wasn't to know SW was going to turn a dangerous murderer.
The evil duo seem to revel in all this planning- I keep thinking of Joanne Dennehy - that real enjoyment of the pursuit of her quarry.
( Strange that holidays are mixed in with evil plotting, German Xmas drinks after buying a stun gun, Xmas holidays to France with DH whilst finalising the "mission."
I was going to say Fatal Attraction"s "AlexForrest" character/Play Misty For Me - but actually seems more than obsessive stalker, seems gratuitous & thrill seeking. They are both getting off on the detail & there are "teenage" aspects to it & KW is 55 yrs of age FGS!

( Bear with me, I may we way off-base with these opinions - haven't caught up.)

Re the homes. I think IanJs home on Holcombe Road was a rental ( no sales showing since 1998 ) so perhaps he rented here while staying sometimes with Sadie during the time she lived in Gt Budworth. Her business partner's evidence said that Sadie and IanJ had an on/off relationship until about 4 years ago and then it became more serious.
in 2012 or thereabouts. So perhaps he kept renting until Sadie moved to Helmshore and then he gave up his rental and moved in with her.

I agree, the thrill of planning a murder seems to be linked to other enjoyable pursuits - ie holidays !

 

[Alyce]

Interesting link

The burglary at Sadie's home in August 2015


http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...n_rescuer_hit_by___3k_equipment_raid_at_home/

 

[cottonweaver]

Interesting link

The burglary at Sadie's home in August 2015


http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...n_rescuer_hit_by___3k_equipment_raid_at_home/

Thanks for this
TBH I assumed that the burglary was an earlier exploit of the evil duo but I don't think that even Walsh could offload a Porsche and she certainly couldn't bury it! LOL

However I do think that tracker was not put on his car solely to find out his address though, think she already had his new address well before the murder.

 

[cottonweaver]

I also I wanted to know how SW knew so much about their lives?
- his departure date to Switz, Sadie's follow on travel date
- about their burglary and that they had had to buy new cars afterwards.

IJ must have still been speaking to her?

Can she really have got all this kind of info from Ralph White, who knew Ian Johnston through skiing. ( RW says Williams consistently asked him about Mr Johnston's movements and future holidays to keep tabs on him. He says Sarah and Mr Johnston were skiing together quite a bit at the Chill Factore.)

Doesn't give the dates of when they stopped skiing together but there's a perfectly good dry ski slope in Rossendale round the corner from them at Helmsmore.

There are many conflicting accounts about when/if they stopped seeing each other. Tricky!

 

[Alyce]

Cotton
I wonder if Williams managed to get IJs holiday info via the ski place where she worked. As well as being a ski centre , I think I read it also had a travel agency attached, so no doubt they arranged IJs flights and accommodation.

Having said that, if she had to keep asking Ralf White for info, then perhaps she couldn't get details via her workplace.

 

[cottonweaver]

Alyce, that sounds possible.

I also found some snippets on the Lancashire Telegraph which implies IJ & SW were possibly still in comms, according to her Apols if you all know all these already.

eg. in no particular order as to trial days:

Williams told Mrs Botham that Ian sent her a text whilst on holiday in January saying 'are we going to do this?*
Mrs Botham said Ian blocked Williams phone number when she sent letter to Sadie but said communication resumed later*
Mrs Cowley said Williams had bought Ian coat for Xmas 2015 and wanted to give him provocative photos to go with it*
Mrs Chapman said Williams went in to work as normal after Sadie had been murdered. When Mr Johnston's mum died Williams was pleased because he would inherit her estate and be able to leave Sadie for her
Jurors hear a flurry of messages as affair between Williams and Hartley develops. She urges him to leave Sadie Hartley.
Williams says she was sorry she had fallen in love with Johnston when he would not split with partner in late 2013.

Ok nothing absolutely definitive but interesting to see dates for all these texts.. maybe tomorrow's testimony?

plus interesting financials - next post

ETA - I just seen this has already been reported on pg 15. Oops - just ignore me!

 

[cottonweaver]

Previously labelled in court as a "sugar daddy", the semi-retired heating firm boss admitted he paid for a string of holidays -

up to 12 a year - as well as giving her £75,000 towards buying a house and paying £320 a week into her bank account by standing order.

But he denied she was "a kept woman" and said he took that suggestion "very offensively"

and

Throughout this time Mr Hardwick continued to live with his wife, Rowena, although the jury was told that Williams had asked him to leave her during the early stages of their relationship.
When Williams started working at the Chill Factore about five years ago, Mr Hardwick said a daily routine developed where he would call at her home in Treborth Road, Blacon, at 5am, get into her bed and then later walk her dog before she started her shift.
On January 14, the day Williams allegedly committed the murder, she had left work early, saying she felt unwell.
Mr Hardwick said she appeared normal when he visited her the following morning but noted that she "snuggled up" to him as soon as he got into bed - which "stood out in his mind" at a time when the relationship had become non-sexual.

and

The court heard that Williams had three houses in total and rented out two of them - one said to have been paid for thanks to a loan of £43,000 from Walsh.
He added that Williams had also floated the idea of him buying a property abroad, near a ski resort.

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.u...er_accused_s_affair__court_told/?ref=mrb&lp=6

That link seemed to have some extra detail.

ETA . Also quite sad to hear that Sadie seemingly did not feel able to tell Taylor ( best pal & business partner ) about the letter .

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Evidence due from victim's partner[/h][FONT=&quot]Good morning. Today is the eight day of the trial of friends Sarah Williams and Katrina Walsh, accused of plotting and carrying out the killing of Miss Williams’ love rival Sadie Hartley.
This morning we will be hearing evidence from Mrs Hartley’s partner at the time of her death, Ian Johnston.
The prosecution claim Sarah Williams was “obsessed” with him and as a result wanted to “ruthlessly remove” Mrs Hartley.
Miss Williams and Mrs Walsh both deny the charge of murder.

[/FONT]
[h=3]'Rekindled our relationship'[/h][FONT=&quot]Mr Johnston, wearing a smart black suit, has taken the oath and is now in the witness box.
He says he was working as a firefighter when he first met Sadie Hartley in 2002 and their relationship began to “grow” into an intimate in or around 2006.
He says in around 2008 he decided it was “too difficult to maintain a relationship at that stage” and they “went our separate ways.”
However they rekindled their contact in 2010 after Mr Johnston had retired from the fire service.

[/FONT]
[h=3]'She arrived in a short skirt and red high heels'[/h][FONT=&quot]Mr Johnston said the pair began meeting up again infrequently, and the pair began being intimate again, after Sadie moved to Cheshire from Buckinghamshire in around 2011.
Mr Johnston he has “agonised” over trying to remember when he first met Sarah Williams.
He says he believes it was in December 2012 and was through a ski club.
He says they exchanged numbers and he and Miss Williams began to exchange “very flirty” texts.
He adds things became intimate “very quickly.”
He says: “There was no dating.
“She came round to my house, after being invited, and she arrived in a short skirt and red high heels.”
He says after 2008 “me and Sadie never discussed anything permanent in our relationship.”
“It was ad-hoc if you will.”

[/FONT]
[h=3]'She would keep turning up unannounced'[/h][FONT=&quot]Mr Johnston says he “tried” to end things with Miss Williams in 2013.
He says he warned her before they became intimate that he didn’t want a serious relationship as he didn’t think it was “fair” because of his frequent travelling.
However he says: “She would keep turning up at my house unannounced.
“I wasn’t very happy with her turning up and I would tell her so.”

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11612481[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'Tried for months to end relationship'[/h][FONT=&quot]Mr Johnston says he had “tried for months” to end the relationship with Sarah Williams.
“I probably wasn’t forceful enough as it turns out” he adds.
He says by summer 2014 his relationship with Sadie Hartley “had been rekindled.”
The court is now being read extracts of a letter which Sarah Williams is said to have sent to Sadie Hartley telling her about her relationship with Ian Johnston.
Mr Johnston says Miss Williams showed him a similar, hand-written letter but he destroyed it as he thought “most of it was nonsense.”
He says he didn’t know Mrs Hartley had kept a copy of the letter she received.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11612481[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'Physically forced her way in'[/h][FONT=&quot]Mr Johnston also recounts a time Sarah Williams arrived at his house with high heels in her hands and “physically forced her way in.”
He says eventually “managed to get her screaming and shouting onto the doorstep.”
says in 2014 he and Sadie decided to properly become a couple after she received the letter, said to be from Miss Williams.
He said: “We discussed the letter and its merits and we decided in all the circumstances, and for all sorts of reasons, we should get together.
“Sadie was a very pragmatic and driven lady.”
[/FONT]
[h=3]Mr Johnston breaks down as he says 'we planned our future'[/h][FONT=&quot]There are emotional scenes in court as Mr Johnston breaks down in tears in the witness box as he talks about his and Sadie’s relationship.
He becomes emotional after saying that in 2014: “We decided we should perhaps get together and decided we were going to go on holiday together to discuss it.
“And that’s what we did.
“We went to Sicily for five days where we planned our future.”

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11612481[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Explicit texts and naked photographs[/h][FONT=&quot]Ian Johnston and Sadie Hartley moved into together in November 2014 the court is told.
The jury are read some text messages between Mr Johnston and Sarah Williams in late 2015.
In one she tells him “there is no one to replace you” and “I cannot let anyone else touch me.”
Many of the texts were explicit with and contained naked photographs, the court is told.
Mr Johnston says he “responded in the same vein” and didn’t block her number.
However he insists he “didn’t want any kind of relationship with her.”
Talking about some messages he sent in October 2015 he says: “I read them back the following day and was absolutely distraught that I had sent the texts.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11612481

[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'I never saw her again'[/h][FONT=&quot]Asked what his intentions were with Sarah Williams when he returned from Switzerland in January this year, where Sadie Hartley was due to meet him, Mr Johnston said “none at all.”
“I can’t recall half the text messages” he adds.
“We certainly never met up.
“After the letter was sent I never saw her again.”
He says he was informed about his partner’s death after receiving a phone call from the police at around midnight on January 14th.
He says he then heard about the arrest of Sarah Williams several days later.”
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11612481

[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

Would be interesting to have a reporter focusing on SW's reactions while he's giving evidence.

 

[Alyce]

Ugh, I am literally sitting on my hands here, trying not to say too much.

So he thought the letter was nonsense and destroyed it - yes, bet he did.
And was surprised Sadie kept a copy. Worried more like.
But it was because of the nonsense letter that they got together ?

And even though he was then in a serious, committed relationship with Sadie, he thought it was ok to encourage Williams by responding to her explicit texts and photos - but of course he didnt want any kind of relationship with her. No of course he didnt.

And, because he never met up with her after the letter, he thinks that's fine - and of course he cant remember half the texts. course he cant !

 

[Tortoise]

Hahaha Alyce, thinking the same things here. What a deceitful g*t.

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]Letter was 'the only negative' from Sarah Williams[/h][FONT=&quot]Mr Johnston says the letter “was the only negative I ever saw” from Sarah Williams towards Sadie Hartley.
He also says at that time he had never met or spoken to co-defendant Katrina, or `Kit’ Walsh.
The court is now taking a short break.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11612481[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

[h=3]'Relationship was purely sexual'[/h][FONT=&quot]Mr Johnston is now being cross-examined by Gordon Cole QC, who is defending Sarah Williams.
Mr Johnston says he decided from Spring 2013 onwards he had decided “he didn’t want a relationship with her.”
About the texts he says: “I was flattered by a young lady.
“The texts were meaningless in terms of any physical relationship.
“They were a placation, they were an entertainment.”
He adds there relationship was “purely sexual” and was “historic” at the time the texts were sent.
He says Sarah told him she loved him but he “couldn’t understand” how that could be the case given they had never been on holiday, out for dinner, to the theatre etc.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-trial-live-11612481[/FONT]

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not picking up the purpose of that bit of cross-examination. What are they angling at?